Rhys Sais ab Ednyfed ap Llywarch Gam

Palmer (p. 25) states that “Rhŷs Sais, a descendant of Lluddoccaf, one of the sons of Tudor Trefor, was already in possession of most of the country about Chirk and Whittington, and before the coming of the Normans had got possession of Erbistock also.”

Palmer (pp. 25-26 fn) notes “Rhŷs seems to have held Erbistock, and perhaps other of his English possessions also, of the Earl of Mercia. The appellation Sais (‘Englishman’), attached to a Welshman’s name, as in the case of Rhŷs Sais, is always explained as indicating a Welshman who could speak English, but it appears rather to have designated a Welshman who owed allegiance for all or part of his lands to an English lord.”

Palmer (p. 41): “The question, “Who were the Welsh chieftains who laid violent hands upon the hundred of Merset?” can only be answered in part. One of them, it is pretty certain, was the Rhŷs Sais who has already been named. He appears to have seized a great part of Dudleston, and it was this portion of his possessions which fell, after his death in 1073, to his son Iddon, whose name is, perhaps, preserved to us in Crogen Iddon in Glyn Ceiriog.”

Palmer (p. 44): “It was probably Rhŷs Sais, already named, or one his his immediate progenitors,who captured from the English that portion of Chirk parish which lies east of Offa’s Dyke, for from Tudor ap Rhŷs Sais descend nearly all the ancient Welsh families of the district.”

Carr (p. 311) notes that "Rhys Sais" is probably to be identified with the Rhys who, according to Domesday Book, held Erbistock in Exestan hundred (now in Wrexham County borough) during Edward the Confessor's reign: DB (Cheshire), f. 267v."

Brut Y Tywysogion, under the year 1079, mentions the murder of Gwrgeneu, Prince of Powys, by the sons of Rhys Sais.

Events

Date of Birth: about 1030 or 1040.

Bartrum (Tudur Trefor 1) gives the date 1040. Mostyn (p. 7), however, states that he “was not born much later than circa 1030.” Palmer (p. 41) states that he was involved in the capture of Merset, which Palmer dates to approximately 1055.

Date of Death: 1073.

Mostyn (p. 7) states that Rhys Sais “died, according to all accounts, in 1073.” Palmer (p. 41) also gives this date. Lloyd (1:311), however, states that he died in 1070, which is also the date that Suppe gives.

Relationships

Father: Ednyfed ap Llywarch Gam ap Lluddica ap Tudur Trefor.

This relationship is given in an early manuscript (“Llwythau y Mars” in“Hen Lwythau Gwynedd A’r Mars”) given by Bartrum in Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts (p. 113). The name string begins with Rhys Sais and goes back in time: “Rhys Sais o Faelor mab Ednyfet ap Llywarch gam ap Lluddika ap Tudur Trefawr ap Ymyr ap Katfarch ap Gwernen ap Gwaeddgar ap Bywyn ap Byordderch ap Gwryawn ap Gwynuau ap Kadell dyrnllug, y gwr y gelwir Kadelling oe Henw.” Bartrum considered the manuscript “fundamentally reliable” in the generations close to Rhys Sais, but defective in the earliest generations. This relationship is also given by Bartrum (Tudur Trefor 1), Mostyn (p. 7), Dwnn (2:307), and Lloyd (1:310).

(possible) Mother: Jonet (Sioned) ferch Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn.

This relationship is shown by Bartrum (Tudur Trefor 1; Tables: Early Series, p. 47), and given by Dwnn (2:307), and Lloyd (2:310). Mostyn (p. 7) notes that if this relationship is true, then Jonet must have been Rhys’s second wife, unless Rhiwallon was very much older than his brother and Jonet married when a child.

Spouse: uncertain.

Bartrum and Suppe (1995, p. 65) give Rhys Sais’s wife as Efa ferch Gruffudd Hir. Dwnn (2:307) gives Efa daughter of Griffith hir ap Griffith ap yr Arglwydd Rys. Lloyd (1:311) states that it is impossible that Dwnn is correct about this. Mostyn (p. 7) states that Rhys Sais’s wife is uncertain since the name Efa daughter of Gruffydd Hîr, given in some pedigrees, has created confusion with a person of the same name who lived later. Carr (p. 7) simply states that the "pedigrees make no sense whatsoever as far as the wives of the earlier members of the family are concerned."

Children:

(Complete source citations for facts about the children on this page are currently outside of the scope of this project.)

Tudur (born about 1060).

Elidir married Nest ferch Lles ap Idnerth Benfras.

Iddon of Duddleston. (Bartrum draws attention to the fact that there may be chronological problems with putting him in this family.)

Angharad (born about 1060) married Uchdrud ab Edwin.

Generys (born about 1070) married Ednywain ab Ithel.

References

Bartrum, Peter C. Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts (Wales U.P., 1966).

Bartrum, Peter C., “Tudur Trefor 1”, “Tables: Early Series, p. 47” in An Electronic Version of Welsh Genealogies AD 300-1500. [The sources Bartrum cites for Rhys Sais are Brut y Tywysogyon and his own Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts.]

Brut Y Tywysogion; or, The Chronicle of the Princes (John Williams ab Ithel, ed.), part of the Rerum Britannicarum Medii Ævi Scriptores series (London: Longman, Green, Longman, and Roberts, 1860).

Carr, Antony David. The Mostyn Family and Estate, 1200-1643 (PhD thesis, University of Wales, 1975).

Dwnn, Lewys, and Samuel Rush Meyrick. Heraldic visitations of Wales and part of the marches between the years 1586 and 1613 by Lewys Dwnn. (Llandovery: William Rees, 1846).

Guy, Ben. Medieval Welsh Genealogy. (The Boydell Press, 2020).

From Guy’s critical edition of the Llywelyn ab Iorwerth genealogies, which were based on an archetype created no later than the first half of the fourteenth century from an original compilation dating to the early thirteenth century, partly based on earlier written sources (Note that Guy is striving for textual rather than genealogical accuracy):

57 Rys Sais o Faelor mab Edenfet ap Llywarch Gam ap Lludika ap Tudur Trefawr ap Ymyr ap Katfarch ap Gwernen ap Gwaedgar ap Bywyn ap Byorderch ap Gwryawn ap Gwynuau ap Kadell Dyrnllug, y gwr y gelwir Kadelling o'e henw.

Lloyd, Jacob Youde William. The History of the Princes, the Lords Marcher and the Ancient Nobility of Powys Fodog and the Ancient Lords of Arwystli, Cedewen and Meirionydd. (London: T. Richards, 1881-1887).

Lloyd, John Edward. A History of Wales from the Earliest Times to the Edwardian Conquest (London: Longmans, Green, and Co., 1912)

Morris, Joseph. “The Family of Fitz-Warine” in Archaeologia Cambrensis New Series Volume 3, pages 282 - 291 (1852).

Mostyn, the Right Hon. Lord, and T. A. Glenn. History of the Family of Mostyn of Mostyn (London: Harrison and Sons, Ltd., 1925).

Oman, Sandra. “Rhys “Sais ab Ednyfed” in Tree: Wales. Welsh Medieval Database Primarily of Nobility and Gentry.

Palmer, Alfred Neobard, “Notes on the Early History of Bangor Is Y Coed” and “Welsh Settlements, East of Offa’s Dyke, during the Eleventh Century” in Y Cymmrodor Volume 10 (1889).

Suppe, Frederick. “Interpreter Families and Anglo-Welsh Relations in the Shropshire-Powys Marches in the Twelfth Century” in Anglo-Norman Studies XXX (2007) pp. 196-212.

Suppe, Frederick. "Who was Rhys Sais? Some Comments on Anglo-Welsh Relations before 1066" in The Haskins Society Journal: Studies in Medieval History Volume 7 (1995) pp. 63-74.