Year of the Rabbit
From: Thong Nguyen-Cung <nguyencungthong@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2023 3:07 PM
To: Davis,Bradley C.(History) <davisbrad@easternct.edu>; mchale@gwu.edu
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Year of the Rabbit
Hi Brad,
Another creative look at the year of the cat (or rabbit), for your info lièvre is wild rabbit (hare, thỏ rừng in Vietnamese) in comparison to lapin (rabbit, thỏ, thỏ bạch, thỏ tàu in Vietnamese)(A). Vietnamese seem to be able to differentiate between hare and rabbit.
Cheers
Nguyen Cung Thong (Melbourne, Australia)
(A) from French Vietnamese dictionary by P G Vallot (1898) and Truong Vinh Ky (1884)
From: Davis,Bradley C.(History) <davisbrad@easternct.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2023 7:17 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Year of the Rabbit
Dear List,
Apologies for reviving a quiet thread, but just want to share an old citation I happened upon while reading articles unrelated to the New Year. It is available on JSTOR. Some discussion of "hares" (les lièvres):
Cœdès, G. “L’origine Du Cycle Des Douze Animaux Au Cambodge.” T’oung Pao 31, no. 3/5 (1935): 315–29.
But no mention of "cabbits," the one cryptozoid that might settle this question once and for all, but one that remains tragically confined to the fictional animated realm.
Brad
Bradley Camp Davis (he/him/his)
Associate Professor
Department of History
From: Chau NGUYEN NGOC <yakiribocou@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2023 8:18 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Vsg] Year of the Rabbit
Dear all,
I invite you to have a look at the translation (here attached) of my article which is in French. The following is an excerpt from this article.
The Chinese call the Vietnamese year Quý Mão the year Guǐ Mǎo Tù (癸卯兔), 癸卯 (Guǐ Mǎo) designating the 40th Tige-Branch of the table of 60 combinations, which is the Quý Mão of the Vietnamese, and 兔 (tù) the Rabbit.
Similarly, the Vietnamese call the year Nhâm Dần (2022) the year of the Natural Water Tiger (Dần means Tiger and Nhâm the word that corresponds to natural water) with the word Tiger (Dần) being part of the Stem-Branch Nhâm Dần, while the Chinese designate it by the year 壬寅虎 (壬寅 means the Stem-Branch Rén Yín and 虎 tiger) with the word Tiger 虎 not being part of the name of the Stem-Branch).
We see that for the Chinese, the zodiac sign is next to the name of the Stem-Branch to complete the name of the year, while among the Vietnamese, it is part of the Stem-Branch.
By translating Guǐ Mǎo into Quý Mão, the Vietnamese took the Cat (Mèo in Vietnamese and 貓 Māo in Chinese) as the animal that would be closest to Mão or maybe because they were confused by the same pronunciation Māo for 卯(part of the Stem-Branch name) and 貓 (the cat), while mão in Vietnamese means hat, hairstyle. The word for the Stem-Branch should have been Quý Thỏ, Thỏ meaning rabbit in Vietnamese if the sign was a rabbit as in China and others countries.
Some explain that Mǎo (卯) would be associated with the rabbit, while others that it comes from the fact that rabbits were rare in Viet Nam compared to the better-known cat and still others that the rabbit is a rodent like a mouse, and it would be redundant to include it when the mouse is already there.
Nguyễn Ngọc Châu
From: Thong Nguyen-Cung <nguyencungthong@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
To: Guillemot Francois <francois.guillemot@ens-lyon.fr>
Just another story about the year of the cat randomly picked from Vietnamese media three days ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiEOHbAKhfE
Cheers
Nguyen Cung Thong
From: Paul Mooney <pjmooney@me.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 1:37 PM
To: VSG <Vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Vsg] Year of the Rabbit
Does anyone know why the Vietnamese call this the Year of the Cat, rather than the year of the Rabbit, as is the custom in China? Paul Mooney
From: Hue-Tam Tai <huetamtai@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 1:55 PM
To: Paul Mooney <pjmooney@me.com>; Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Year of the Rabbit
Qui Mao (Chinese Gui mao) means Cat. Why Chinese use a rabbit (Ch. tu, Vn, tho) is the question.
Hue Tam Ho Tai
Harvard University emerita
From: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 2:04 PM
To: Hue-Tam Tai <huetamtai@gmail.com>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Year of the Rabbit
Dear all,
I wrote a brief explanation for the linguistic reasons for this confusions I think exactly twelve years ago lol. Here it is:
The form "mẹo" is consistent with Early Sino-Vietnamese (i.e. nặng tone for MC low-rising). There is another form, "mão"which is consistent with Late Sino-Vietnamese (non-front vowel and ngã tone MC for low-rising). The word for "cat," "mèo" with a huyền tone, onomatopoeic treachery aside, is actually a perfectly regular correspondence for Early Sino-Vietnamese of 貓 [meaning "cat"]. Normal Late Sino-Vietnamese correspondences for MC words in level tones with sonorant onsets usually (and bizarrely) have HIGH level tones in Late Sino-Vietnamese, (so 貓 is properly "miêu"). But Early Sino-Vietnamese forms show the more expected low-series "huyền" tone (and non-raised vowel), thus "mèo." If there was a folk etymology, then it would have been a confusion between mẹo and mèo, while "mão" was maintained in literature circles (and is attested as such and associated with the rabbit, in early modern Vietnamese literature). So in other words, the word for "cat" (mèo) is actually a very old borrowing from Chinese (or a very old coincidence), and it was confused with the older form for the zodiac sign for rabbit (mẹo, not mão), probably before the tonal distinctions became set. Thus from pretty early on, people in Vietnam started thinking of this zodiac category as "cat" instead of "rabbit." Yeap, it's just a very old confusion.
Happy (incoming) New Year everyone! John
From: Thong Nguyen-Cung <nguyencungthong@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 3:34 PM
To: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Year of the Rabbit
Hi all,
This brings back memory of a series that I wrote about the possibility that zodiac names may come from a Southern Language (viz. AustroAsiatics), not a Han language/Chinese. In a nutshell, if you trace the origin of the character 卯 mǎo (current pinyin) and its origin is linked to rabbit, then the conclusion is rather obvious. But this is not the case, the reconstructed (old) sound of măo is *meo and linked to mèo (Vietnamese ~ cat) and miêu 貓 (Chinese ~ cat). Extending the old sound construction pattern to others: *tlu (tru, trâu ~ buffalo in Vietnamese) > Sửu 丑 (chǒu), ngựa (horse in Vietnamese) - Ngọ 午 (wǔ in pinyin), *kui (heo/lợn ~ pig in Viet/Muong) > Hợi 亥 (hài in pinyin), rga (gà ~ chicken in Viet/Muong) > Dậu 酉 (yǒu in pinyin),etc ... The sound connections suggest an Old Vietnamese link to corresponding animal names from these earthly branches, besides the confusion between cat and rabbit in Chinese language itself such as 兔狲 thô tôn (Otocolobus manul) signifyng a wild cat (thố 兔 is a rabbit)! I just had a chit-chat (unprepared interview) with SBS Radio (Australia) on the same topic (9/1/2023), maybe it is informative to listen to this talk on https://www.sbs.com.au/language/vietnamese/vi/podcast-episode/man-%C4%91am-ve-nam-mao/9nrcr2zo9
Cheers
Nguyen Cung Thong (Melbourne, Australia)
Refer also to this article https://web.archive.org/web/20110205204843/http://quangduc.com/xuan/xuan2011/mao-meo.pdf, part the series about "The Vietnamese origin of the 12 zodiac names"
From: Ngo Thanh Nhan <ngo.thanh.nhan@temple.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 5:52 PM
To: Hue-Tam Tai <huetamtai@gmail.com>; Paul Mooney <pjmooney@me.com>; Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
Dear all,
There was a joke, I don't think it's Trạng Quỳnh, who held a cat in front of a princess. He said the cat could talk. She said "yeah?"
He asked the cat "cô này tròn hay méo?" and squeezed the cat and it cried "méo".
Thai has naga water snake, not dragon, and goat, not ram... is normal... The Vietnamese have a cat rather than rabbit/hare, and goat rather than ram.
The Vietnamese could not have mispronounced mão, since they do have native não nề, não nuột, nhão nhét, and mão "the crown" (without mispronounced
into cái mẹo/cái mèo). I like Nguyễn Cung Thông's explanation using etymology for mèo/mão, trâu/sửu, ngựa/ngọ, cúi/hợi...
Should we think of quý mão "the water hare/rabbit" for Chinese and "the wet cat" for Vietnamese?
From: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 1:13 AM
To: Ngo Thanh Nhan <ngo.thanh.nhan@temple.edu>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
Hi all,
Paul, sure!
Anh Nhan, the -eo forms are Early, while the -ao form is late. The fact that the syllabic form -ao exists in native Vietnamese does not prove that there was no confusion. At the time of borrowing, the syllable that was later -ao was pronounced -eo, thus allowing for a confusion between mẹo and mèo.
Happy new years all! John
From: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 1:28 AM
To: Ngo Thanh Nhan <ngo.thanh.nhan@temple.edu>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
--whoops, I meant "Carl, sure!"
From: Guillemot Francois <francois.guillemot@ens-lyon.fr>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2023 2:46 AM
To: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
Thank you John for your etymological explanation.
To complete the topic (mot cach vui ve), I find this video de Ho Van Tan which presents three interpretations and an article on VietnamNet :
Tại sao năm "Mão" Việt Nam là con Mèo, Trung Quốc là con Thỏ? // Hồ Văn Tân
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkKmoU6lBEc
Vì sao năm Mão của Việt Nam là mèo, ở Trung Quốc, Hàn Quốc là thỏ?
All the best
F
---
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BP 7000, 69342 Lyon cedex 07
Guillemot François
Historien, ingénieur de recherche CNRS
Institut d'Asie Orientale - UMR 5062
Tél. 04 37 37 62 41
francois.guillemot@ens-lyon.fr
Responsable des collections vietnamiennes
Référent ingénierie de projets
Membre du Bureau éditorial d'ENS éditions
----------------------------
Carnets de recherche & ressources
https://guerillera.hypotheses.org/
https://indomemoires.hypotheses.org/
https://indosources.hypotheses.org/
From: Ngo Thanh Nhan <ngo.thanh.nhan@temple.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 5:06 PM
To: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
Happy New Year, John and Anh Nguyễn Cung Thông, and all,
To me: It is very interesting that the Chinese chose mão "rabbit", and the Vietnamese chose mèo "cat" and almost
in agreement with all 11 others.
Perhaps at some point in the past, the rabbit and the cat were physically confused by one or both groups of people?
If confusion exists in language, we may find some proof of the co-existence of the two forms -eo and -ao, only to mean mèo in
Vietnamese? Two animals, one earthly branch.
Today, when we say mão in Vietnamese, we mean "rabbit", and mẹo/mèo to mean "cat". Yet, the Vietnamese print "quý mão" yet
draw a cat. Can we call this phenomenon "confusion"?
My new passion, folk music studies...
Cheers,
Nhàn
Center for Vietnamese Philosophy, Culture & Society
Temple University
From: Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:33 AM
To: Ngo Thanh Nhan <ngo.thanh.nhan@temple.edu>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
"Today, when we say mão in Vietnamese, we mean "rabbit", and mẹo/mèo to mean "cat". Yet, the Vietnamese print "quý mão" yet
draw a cat. Can we call this phenomenon "confusion"?"
Perhaps. But isn't the burning question "why are we calling 'mão' a "rabbit"? Rabbits are not indigenous to East Asia. Hares are. And what does a hare -- one that Vietnamese might have seen -- look like? Here is a story about the search for one in Vietnam. You will notice that the hare's ears aren't very long. Perhaps, from afar, Vietnamese did indeed mistake wild hares for wild cats . . .
https://www.rewild.org/news/between-the-stripes-part-ii-a-rare-encounter
Shawn McHale
George Washington University
From: Thong Nguyen-Cung <nguyencungthong@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2023 1:35 PM
To: Diane Fox <dnfox70@gmail.com>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: [External] Re: Year of the Rabbit
Hi Shawn,
Your guess is creative. Confusion may lie in the sound approximation: mǎo 卯 (> rabbit) compared to māo 貓 (> cat), or character formation such as tú 菟 (note the phonetic 兔 tù is rabbit) but 於菟 is tiger, 兔狲 is a wild cat,ẹtc
My two bob's worth
Nguyen Cung Thong (Melbourne, Australia)
From: Ngo Thanh Nhan <ngo.thanh.nhan@temple.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 6:51 AM
To: Thong Nguyen-Cung <nguyencungthong@gmail.com>; Diane Fox <dnfox70@gmail.com>
Cc: Vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Re: Year of the Rabbit
Thank you, Anh Thông and Shawn,
Nôm studies, and etymology may need multidisciplinary support... People can reconstruct the earth map, they have attempted to reconstruct economies, rice culture,
people may be able to reconstruct flora and fauna, animals in each region, to help with linguistic reconstruction... Among the earthly branch animals, we do have sheep vs goat vs ram, ...
Some animals may or may not exist in a certain region.
Remember Haudricourt, his theory was based on botany, and found that before the VIth Century, there was no tone register separation. Dates of the reconstruction
before that may not show tones sắc, ngã, huyền...
Cheers,
Nhan