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From: Barley Norton
Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:13 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Vsg-ers may be interested to know that two documentary radio programmes on Vietnamese popular music will be broadcast on the BBC World Service this weekend - Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th November, at various times (see links below). I did some interviews in Vietnam with Pham Duy, Ton That Lap and Pham Tuyen for the programme; the presenter Robin Denslow interviewed Vietnamese musicians in France and the US but didn't go to Vietnam. I have had no input concerning the final content of the programme or the editorial decisions, but I know the producer drew heavily on information from a forthcoming chapter by myself (see link below) and several articles by Jason Gibbs (Jason, you may wish to comment further?), and they also interviewed both of us.
Barley Norton
Radio programme links:
Vietnam's Rock 'n' Roll War - Episode 1 and 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p010c44r
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p010c4fj
Article:
"Vietnamese Popular Song in '1968': War, Protest and Sentimentalism". In the edited book Music and Protest in 1968, see:
http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item6959764/?site_locale=en_GB
******************
Dr Barley Norton
Music Department
Goldsmiths College, University of London, New Cross, London SE14 6NW
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:31 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thanks for the heads up, Barley.
The BBC site says that the program will be available soon. So I could only read the introduction by Denslow. He states that it was the US ground troops that introduced rock'n roll to South Vietnam in 1965. But I recall Saigonnese doing the twist in late 1963 to celebrate the overthrow of Diem and Nhu. Mme Nhu had earlier banned dancing as part of her morality crusade.
I think Elvis Phuong also became popular before the US ground troops arrived.
A lot of American pop songs were available with French lyrics. I still remember the French lyrics to an Everly Brothers song, "Dream, dream."
Hue Tam Ho Tai
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From: Barley Norton
Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 4:55 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Many thanks Hue Tam. Interesting to hear your recollections about pre-1965 rock 'n' roll influences - the image of Saigonese dancing the twist after the overthrow of Diem will stay with me. The world service website says the programmes will be available to play for a year after the live broadcasts this weekend.
Barley
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From: David Brown
Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 7:29 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
The youth I hung out with -- being myself a youth at the time -- were
more into French pop by the likes of Sylvie Vartan and Francoise Hardy, and Vietnamese language analogs like the bouncy 'Saigon Dep Lam.' Hue-Tam obviously ran with a cooler crowd!
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From: Lan PHAMNGOC
Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 11:27 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I totally agree with David.
I remember when I got my baccalauréat in 1962, we listened to Johnny Halliday singing French version of Let's Twist Again before the original version by Chubby Checker, and learned to dance "Be bop" on the French rock songs, many of them with French lyrics on American hits.
But it is also true that the rock became much more popular after 1965, with the American soldiers arriving in Viêt Nam.
I summarized in a pot-pourri some of the hits in the 60's in Viêt Nam, the song name is Bài Ca Nam Cu :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlSLw88_izo
Ph?m Ng?c Lân
Toulouse
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:16 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
No, I was at the Lycee Marie Curie. But many of the French pop songs were actually translations of American pop songs or take offs from them. Remember Johnny Halliday?
My French girl friend came back from summer vacation in France humming the songs from Help! I think it was 1964.
Hue Tam
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:27 AM
To: Lan PHAMNGOC <lan_phamngoc@yahoo.com>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I did not see Ngoc Lan's post before replying to David, but our memories seem to accord. My Bac dates from 1966. A few years ago, my Paris-based brother put togetjer for me a CD of Francoise Hardy songs, "pour la nostalgie."
Elvis Phuong was already popular in 1963, having taken his name from Elvis Presley. Pat Boone was also popular, and so was Cliff Richard.
When the US Armed Forces radio began playing American music (most popular song, "I Wanna Go Gome"), there was certainly rock and roll but also Country and Western.
Hue Tam
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From: Shawn McHale
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 8:34 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Tangentially -- don't forget the Filipino connection to Vietnamese music! When conducting research from my next book, I came across the mention of a Filipino musician and revolutionary who had fled the Philippines after the Americans put down the revolution (from 1898 to 1902), and ended up playing piano in Saigon till 1945 or so. (On a related note, the Cambodian court in the mid- to late-19th century had a Filipino band . . . ). And when I was a kid, in the Vietnam War, Filipino rock bands would go in droves to play in Vietnam. I wonder if they were going before 1965.
Shawn McHale
--
Shawn McHale
Associate Professor of History
George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
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From: Frank Proschan <frank.proschan@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 9:25 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
As I was drifting awake yesterday, I heard the first installment of this two-parter. It mentioned the March, 1972 visit by Pete Seeger to Hanoi and the enthusiastic response he received at the airport from a Vietnamese composer (whose name unfortunately escaped me in my semi-somnolent state).
A pity that the producers were not aware that a recording from that visit can be consulted in the Ralph Rinzler Folklife Archives at the Smithsonian Institution's Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage. It's a wonderful sound and physical artifact - three 5" reels of Orwo tape in nifty little boxes, if my memory serves me, that were given to Pete by the Voice of Vietnam and given by Pete to Moses Asch, owner of Folkways Recordings.
The recording features a couple of concerts given in the Voice of Vietnam Studio, first by the Vietnamese Central Song and Dance Ensemble, Choir of the Voice of Vietnam, and various soloists, followed by Pete. The recording features several versions of "Strike up your banjo, American friend", composed by Pham Tuyen, as well as such golden favorites as "Greetings to our elderly militiamen" (the track sheet struck out "guerrillas" in favor of "militiamen"), "Mutual affection between the army and the people", "Young Saigonese girls carrying ammunition to the front", and "Greetings to the songs of struggle in the USA", from the Vietnamese side, and "Where have all the flowers gone", "Guantanamera" (a Vietnamese-American sing-along, in fraternal solidarity), "Pretty Saro" and other songs from Pete.
If the BBC producers ever want to do part three...
FYI, Smithsonian Folkways Recordings also sells - for digital download or as custom produced CDs - several discs that were published on Paredon Records in the 1970s with recording licensed from the DRV. Paredon was the label of folksinger Barbara Dane and Irwin Silber: http://www.folkways.si.edu/search/collection/paredon-records - devoted to revolutionary struggles within the U.S. and around the world.
Best,
Frank Proschan
37 place Jeanne d'Arc
75013 Paris
FRANCE
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From: Jason Gibbs
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
The producers of the show had a strong pre-conceived idea that the American influence in Vietnamese popular music was the decisive one – an idea I don’t share. I spoke with them at length detailing what I think are the stronger conduits of rock and pop music into Vietnam – through the Francophone world and through Hong Kong (and the Chinese merchant communities in Vietnam). In rock music that is seen through the popularity of yéyé music and Salut au copains on the one and The Shadows and Cliff Richards on the other. They did follow up on The Shadows lead in their program.
I also pointed out to them that there was a small but devoted audience for rock music in the North. Hanoi college students were dancing the twist - through a government sanctioned form of ballroom dance called qu?c t? vu - even as it was banned in the South by Madame Nhu. This was a short-lived development – there was no more ballroom dance allowed after 1964 until the mid-1980s or so.
The Philippine presence as professional musicians in Vietnam was very significant from at least the 1930s through 1975. There was good money to be made in Vietnam for any musicians who could play music that accorded with the tastes of foreigners in the dancehalls, cafes, bars, nightclubs and hotels of Saigon (and earlier in Hanoi and Haiphong). And later at American military bases. This also explains why so many young Vietnamese like the CBC Band found so much success during that time. But the hard rock sounds from America did not have a deep resonance with most Vietnamese at that time.
The other point that I tried to make to the producers is that rock and pop music became assimilated into Vietnamese popular music through the rhythmic patterns of ballroom dance. Vietnamese songwriters who had long written to tango, waltz, slow, boston, cha cha and bolero rhythms began to write to the twist, “mashed potato”, agogo, and most importantly the slow rock rhythm.
Jason Gibbs
San Francisco
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From: Molly O'Connell
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM
To: Frank Proschan <frank.proschan@yahoo.com>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Frank,
This is truly wonderful information. I was able to collect Barbara Dane's recordings and send them back to Pham Tuyen in 2007, after working with him under the Fulbright program (and re-recording the song). When I spoke to Pete between 2005-2007, he did not provide information on archiving the Gia Lam reunion, but this would certainly be a great resource for future research.
Kind regards,
Molly Hartman-O'Connell
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
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From: Ngô Thanh Nhàn
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 10:24 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Hi Molly,
I performed with Pete twice about 30 years ago, in the late 1970's…
He mentioned his trip to Vietnam with amazement and talked about
dàn b?u… He also performed with Ph?m Duy singing the Vietnamese
version of Clementine when a group of musicians performing different
versions of Clementine (it's on the web somewhere).
Best,
Nhàn
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From: Molly O'Connell
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 10:37 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thay Nhan,
I did not know this about you - we should have discussed this earlier! Pete also mentioned Dan Bau/Quan Ho in my conversations with him - this certainly must have left an impression.
Best,
Molly
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From: Ngô Thanh Nhàn <nhan@temple.edu>
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 10:48 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Molly,
Yes… Pete was also impressed with Quan h?'s unison poetry improvisation.
One of the two -- you never know which one -- composes the poetry on the
spot, but sing it in unison, as if they composed the poetry at the same time.
Thanks Molly,
Nhàn
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From: Nhu Miller
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 12:39 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I agree with Jason that western music was filtered more through the Francophone/
European world. Witness the strong hold that ballroom dancing has - especially
among the generation that was so deprived of music during the wars. My parents'
generation (would be in their 80's and 90's) adored Tino Rossi, Piaf, Montand,
Jacqueline Francoise. Many resumed dancing late in life: tango, fox trot,
Boston! etc. Although ballroom dancing is fading now, in the years of doi moi,
it was strong and vibrant. People whose dancing lives had been put on hold
took up where they left off in 1946.
I use to attend the annual birthday party of Mme Ngai, Do Thanh Huong's (of Tan My)
mother who was an avid dancer. She outlived all her partners. She danced in an
elegant white ao dai and adored doing the BOSTON. At least she
lived to see the revival of the music and dance so beloved of so Vietnamese
who had to give up all that because of the wars.
If you go to Vietnamese night clubs in California, the dance floor is filled with
elderly people really having a ball, catching up on a lifetime of forbidden dance.
T. T. Nhu
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From: Jo
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 2:43 PM
To: mchale@gwu.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
When I spent 6 months in Pakistan, 1955-56, the bands in nightclubs in Lahore and Karachi, and at the Lahore Gymkhana Club. were Filipino bands. I heard they’d been there for ages, and were much appreciated. Searching the web, I found this report of this U. Mich. dissertation: http://gradworks.umi.com/32/08/3208523.html The abstract offers no chronology. That’s as far as I got.
Joanna Kirkpatrick
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