Clarifications: Trinh/Cheng

At 02:36 PM 3/27/00 +1000, you wrote:

Kim Ninh wrote:

Dear VSG members:

In Dang Thai Mai's 1985 memoir, he wrote of his education:

"I gained a general knowledge about the thoughts of master philosophers from Socrates, Aristotlte, and Plato to Descartes and Hegel, and from Confucius and Mencius to Chu, Trinh, and Khang Luong. I Also read Tagore, Gandhi and glanced at the teachings of Buddhism, Mohammed and even Jesus!"

This is my translation. David Marr figures that Chu is Chu Hsi and Khang Luong refers to Kang Yu Wei and Liang Chi Chao. Does anyone know what Trinh stands for?

Secondly, I am looking for the exact citations for a couple of articles on the literary group Thanh Nghi written by Pierre Brocheux. Your help is much appreciated.

Kim Ninh

From: Geoff Wade <gwade@hkucc.hku.hk>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re:Trinh/Cheng

"Trinh" probably refers to Cheng Hao and Cheng Yi, who together with Zhu Xi (Chu Hsi), were the major neo-Confucian expositors of the classics during the Song dynasty.

Hence the term "Cheng-Zhu Xue" (alluding to studies by the Chengs and Zhu) in reference to such Song dynasty exposition.

geoff wade

From: Tana Li <Tana_li@uow.edu.au>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Clarifications

Trinh refers to Cheng Hao (1032-1085, Trinh Hao. in VNese) and Cheng Yi (1033-1107, Trinh Di) brothers, both philosophers in the Song dynasty. The Trinh was being mentioned always with Chu (Chu Hsi or Zhu Xi in pinyin), because of their Cheng-Zhu Neo-Confucianist school.

Hope this helps.

Tana

From: David Marr <dgm405@coombs.anu.edu.au>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Clarifications

That's amazing to get four almost instant answers to your first question. The full citations for the Brocheux articles can be found in the bibliography of my VN 1945 book. Shows the power of the internet: you and I are only 30 meters from each other, but the answer comes via Seattle. To be honest, however, you asked me earlier and I failed to check.

David

From: Vinh Quoc Nguyen <vnguyen@fas.harvard.edu>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Clarifications

Tri`nh refers to the brothers Cheng Yi (Tri`nh Di) and Cheng Hao (Tri`nh Ha.o), who along with Chu Hsi (Chu Hi) were the leading exponents of Sung Neo-Confucianism. -- Vinh Nguyen

From: "Liam C. Kelley" <liam@hawaii.edu>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: RE: Clarifications

Trinh would be the Cheng brothers - Cheng Hao (Ch'eng Hao) and Cheng Yi (Ch'eng I), who, together with Zhu Xi (Chu Hsi) make up the mainstream of Song Neo-Confucianism. As a unit they are usually referred to as "Cheng Zhu." Your translation has them in the opposite order, but given that it is preceded and followed by other standard references this has to be who he is referring to - Confucius and Mencius, the Cheng brothers and Zhu Xi, and Kang Youwei and Liang Qichao.

From: mchale <mchale@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Brocheux AND Dang Thai Mai

Kim--

Two notes. First, on THANH NGHI and so forth, you may find this article by Brocheux useful:

Brocheux, Pierre. "La question de l'indpendance dans l'opinion vietnamienne de 1939 a 1945." Communication faite l'Institut du temps present, colloque sur "Les problemes de la de colonisation de l'empire francais (1936-1956)." 4-5 Octobre 1984.

Second, on Dang Thai Mai. Your quotation is fascinating because it reminds me of how VIetnamese intellectuals often reinvented themselves and their literary biographies. Later on in the same memoir, Dang Thai Mai writes -- it may be the last page -- that while others went on tortuous intellectual pilgrimages (Hanoi--Saigon--Paris--Moscow . . . ), "for me, the light always came from the North." Right.

But a great memoir.

Shawn McHale

Assistant Professor of History and International Affairs

The George Washington University

e-mail address: mchale@gwu.edu

From: Adam Fforde <msefaj@nus.edu.sg>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: RE: Clarifications

Once again we see, below, comrades, the rigid technological determinism of those who, ignoring utterly the power of community, attribute all so-called progress to the advance of bourgeois science. Only when a proper and correct, and above all correctly scientific, analysis has been made, and the community brought to One in its understanding for and in itself of Itself, will certain comrades be brought to book and, realising the Leftism and

Voluntarism that lurks underneath ... (turn to p 567)

Dr. Adam Fforde

Rm AS3 06-14

Southeast Asian Studies Programme

Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences

NUS, SINGAPORE 119260

Tel: (65) 874 6865

Fax: (65) 774 8750

email: msefaj@nus.edu.sg