Vietnamese Terms for Academic Ranks
From: Tuan Hoang <tuannyriver@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 6:45 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Not having been at AAS for several years, it was a delight to be back at the VSG meeting on Friday night. Among other things, big props will have to go to David Biggs for completing his three-year term as president, and big thanks to Michele Thompson for taking on the responsibility for a second time.
As the group went around for introduction at the start, it struck me that there were probably more Yale folks in the room - faculty, grad students, and previous degree recipients - than any group associated to a single institution. One of those Yalies gave me his business card, which carries English on one side and Vietnamese on the other. It also prompted the following questions:
What are the different levels of academic appointments in Vietnam? My understanding is that there are two basic levels: Phó giáo su and Giáo su - assistant professor and professor. Both are also called Gi?ng viên - lecturer. Is this correct? Or is Gi?ng viên a separate rank in some cases?
Was this system of rankings based on another model - Soviet, Chinese, French, Japanese, etc.? I believe ranks and titles are determined by H?i d?ng ch?c danh giáo su nhà nu?c - the National Committee for Professorial Titles. Is this a legacy of the Soviet or Chinese model at all?
Translations of terms - While we're at it, I've always been curious how to translate the following terms (in the U.S. academic system) into Vietnamese. It's complicated because some terms don't necessarily correspond to Vietnamese realities or practices. Then there are some Vietnamese terms - e.g., hi?u tru?ng - that could have more than one English translations. Any suggestions are gratefully welcomed.
Visiting professor
Fellow - H?i viên or Nghiên c?u sinh (depending on the situation)?
Adjunct - Tr? giáo?
Professional specialist
Endowed chair
Endowed professor
Distinguished professor
Emerita/Emeritus professor - GS v? huu, GS ngh? huu?
Dean - Vi?n tru?ng or tru?ng khoa?
Provost - Hi?u tru?ng?
Chancellor - Hi?u tru?ng?
Cheers!
Tuan Hoang
Adjunct Lecturer
Department of History
CSUSB-PDC
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From: Christina <christina.firpo@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:59 AM
To: Tuan Hoang <tuannyriver@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Great questions, Tuan.
I have heard colleagues us ch? nhi?m khoa (or just ch? nhi?m). My colleague at Hoa Sen University translated Visiting Scholar as h?c gi? bi?t t?nh, but that term/concept isn't commonly used. I'm interested in hearing how our Vietnamese colleagues on the list translate it and the other terms.
It was a pleasure to see lots of you at AAS. The papers were fantastic.
c
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 1:02 PM
To: Christina <christina.firpo@gmail.com>, Tuan Hoang <tuannyriver@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
One problem of translation is that academic institutional units do not correspond to American ones. For example, American universities have a Faculty of Arts and Sciences that include departments such as History, Political Science, etc... along with professional schools. In Vietnam, there are Faculties or Schools (khoa) such as Khoa Lich Su, Khoa quan he quoc te, etc...
I would translate khoa truong into dean. Khoa pho would be associate dean. Hieu truong would be Rector; hieu pho would be vice-rector.
As far as I understand, nghien cuu sinh applies to graduate students.
I do not believe there are chairs, endowed or otherwise in the Vietnamese system. I'd hate to be described as having a "ghe"!
I do not know how to translate Teaching Assistant (or Teaching Fellow). I'm not sure that this position exists in the Vietnamese system.Would that be tro giang or phu giang?
I do not know what model the Vietnamese university system follows. I understand that in Germany, there is usually only one professor for each field, and that, unlike in the US, that professor pretty much sets the research agenda for junior colleagues. This seems to be the case in the Vietnamese universities I have visited.
Another thing: I am always asked what research agenda is pursued by the center with which I am affiliated (which happens to be the Fairbank Center for Chinese Studies at Harvard). Vietnamese colleagues are surprised that there is no center-wide research agenda and that we are each free to pursue our own research.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
Kenneth T. Young Professor
of Sino-Vietnamese History
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From: Oscar Salemink <o.salemink@anthro.ku.dk>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 2:20 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Here is my two cents’ on this.
Christina is right that the correct VN term for ’faculty dean’ is ch? nghi?m khoa, but one problem is institutional inflation is Vietnam, as Professor Ho Tai observes: what is a ‘khoa’ in Vietnam (usually translated as faculty) would typically be a department in the West – like history, sociology, etc. The unit that Vietnamese call b? môn – usually translated as department – usually lacks institutional autonomy, which is why many b? môn strive to become khoa. A similar problem is the translation of ‘university’; in Vietnamese, it has t?ng h?p is part of the name. But Vietnam National University (both in Hanoi and HCMCity) consists of various Tru?ng d?i h?c that are specific to a disciplinary field (natural sciences, social sciences and humanities, pedagogics) but use the English term university with its general/universal [t?ng h?p] knowledge claims. In othercountries, these ‘universities’ would correspond to schools, colleges or faculties.
In response to Tuan Hoang: gi?ng viên simply means lecturer. In universities one could take it in the British sense, namely meaning somebody (with PhD) teaching at university, but not all universities have many staff with PhDs. Giáo su and phó giao su are more difficult to translate, because giáo su (professor) is a really rare and honorific title, while phó giao su (usually translated as associate professor) is more than tenured faculty [biên ch?], and many phó giao su would be considered equivalent to full professors elsewhere.
It would be interesting to create a genealogy of the VN higher education system, but I can detect French, Russian, Chinese and American influences:
? French in the quasi separation of research (CNRS etc) and teaching (universities), with ‘directeurs de recherche’ (permitted to supervise doctoral students) perhaps equivalent to phó giao su.
? Russian in the separation between the Academies and the universities. Up until the 1990s Vietnam had the title of phó ti?n si [associate doctor] which was derived from the former Soviet Union. In the 1990s that title was abolished.
? Chinese, in the similarity with the Russian system and in the growing importance of the universities vis-à-vis the academies.
? American, because since the 1990s VN wanted to emulate the American PhD system, as the Vietnamese elite sees the US universities as the most prestigious (and often sends its kids to the US for their studies). One of the interesting recent developments is the institution of a new program for research funding that is not only competitive, but on the one hand based on international, peer-reviewed (!) publications, and on the other hand seeks to encourage such publications.
Professor Nguy?n Van Huy (actually phó giao su, I believe, but for me he is a professor) with his archive of scholars and scholarly careers might be able to help with an endeavor to create a genealogy of academic ranks and institutions.
Best regards,
Oscar Salemink
Professor in the Anthropology of Asia
Department of Anthropology
Faculty of Social Sciences
University of Copenhagen
Øster Farimagsgade 5
1353 København K.
Denmark
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From: David Brown <nworbd@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 2:51 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
While we're at it, I've been puzzled that Vietnamese does not seem to offer a distinction between universities and the colleges that are their constituent units, e.g., Hanoi National University is (Truong) Dai hoc Quoc gia Ha Noi and the College of Foreign Languages within DHQGHN is the (Truong) Dai Hoc Ngoai Ngu, subordinate to which are the various Khoa (Anh van, etc.).
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From: William Noseworthy <wnosewor@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 3:21 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear All,
Many thanks for opening up this thread! I have puzzled over this myself as well and normally settled on describing the overarching university system as Ð?i H?c Qu?c Gia or VNU, which there are individual "branches," Tru?ng Ð?i H?c Xã H?i và Nhân Van or UHSS, at least to people in the states.
With the "khoa" I've wavered between the more British sounding "Faculty" vs. American "Department." From my last semester there it struck me that the "b? môn" are really more similar to colleges and universities in the US call "minors" or "certificate programs," where many strive for that "khoa" status as Dr. Salemink has noted. When I was an English teacher I had a "tr? lý giáo viên," or "teacher's assistant." The problem then becomes that the title used to describe a TA's duties in English are not accurate then no? In a discussion how to describe this last semester with colleagues at UHSS several of us settled on "tr? lý giáo su" but, admittedly we all came away from the conversation a bit unsure as, like others have noted, the position seems to be less common in Ho Chi Minh City, where all of us who were "candidates" were "Nghiên C?u Sinh" Nevertheless "lecturers" or "gi?ng viên" appear to be somewhat common and one does not need a ti?n si to receive one.
That's all from my end, but I would love to hear others thoughts on the matter,
Still amused by the looks I got from describing myself as an "?ng c? ti?n si,"
T?t c? nhung chua vi?t lu?n án,
Billy
UW-Madison
--
William B. Noseworthy,
PhD, c. History
UW-Madison
M.A. UW-Madison '11
CELTA ILA Viet Nam Oct. '07
B.A. Oberlin '07
------------------------
From: Hy Luong <vanluong@chass.utoronto.ca>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 5:35 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
As pointed out by Hue Tam Ho Tai, in functional terms, a “Khoa” (“s?” or history, or “hóa” or chemistry, etc) in the Vietnamese system is the equivalent of a department in the North American system or much of the West. A “tru?ng Ð?i h?c” (of Engineering, of Social Sciences and Humanities, of Foreign Languages) as a constituent unit of a comprehensive and large university (National University of Hanoi or HCMC) is the equivalent of a faculty, a college, or a school within a North American university. A “Ð?i h?c” (without the word “tru?ng”) as in the case of the National University of Hanoi, National U. of HCMC, Da Nang Univ., Hue Univ., Thai Nguyen Univ., Can Tho Univ., is the functional equivalent of a large and comprehensive university in North America.
The main question is whether in translation, we should pay more attention to: a. institutional contexts, functional equivalence and comprehensibility, or b. literal translation that may be rather confusing. I strongly favour the former solution. To give an example, I see many times in the Vietnamese press the translation of the Faculty of Arts and Science at Harvard (or at another major university) as “Khoa ngh? thu?t và khoa h?c”. This makes little sense in the Vietnamese context because a Khoa in Vietnam goes hand in hand with fairly specialized training in a discipline or a field; Vietnamese readers would wonder “how can there be a discipline of arts and science?”. Going beyond academic contexts, I have seen in the Vietnamese press the translation of “Secretary” (actually a member of the Cabinet or equivalent in a government) as “thu ký” (=clerk) or “tr? lý” (=assistant) (thus Deputy Secretary as “phó tr? lý” (= Deputy Assistant)). This kind of translation overlooks institutional contexts and functional equivalence, and creates confusion.
Back to the question raised by Tuan, I would suggest functional equivalent translation or at least a footnote of explanation:
? Provost: Phó Giám d?c Ð?i h?c (equivalent to the Vice President of the National University of Hanoi/HCMC, Hue Univ., etc.)
? Chancellor: depending on institutional context. If it is the head of a major and comprehensive University, I would suggest “Giám d?c” (equivalent to the President of the National University of Hanoi or HCMC, or Hue University). “Chancellor” as the head of a campus in the University of California system, presents a difficult case: the Chancellor of UCLA is in functional terms the equivalent of the President of the National University of Hanoi/HCMC or Hue University, but above the Chancellor is the President of the entire University of California system (with no equivalent in Vietnam).
? Dean: I have seen the Vietnamese press referring to the Dean of the Harvard Business School as “Hi?u tru?ng” (equivalent to the head of a constituent unit/”university” in the National University of Hanoi/HCMC or Hue University), but the Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Science at the same University as “tru?ng khoa” (one level below “hi?u tru?ng” in the Vietnamese system)! In North America, we would find these translations confusing and in a way, funny, as the Dean of Arts and Science at a North American university is the head of a considerably bigger unit than the Dean of the Business school. If we go by functional equivalence, “Dean” at a big and comprehensive North American University (e.g, Dean of business school, engineering school, architecture school, Arts and Science faculty, etc) should be translated as “hi?u tru?ng”. However, following Hue Tam Ho Tai, I would suggest that if we go the other way, from Vietnamese to English, “hi?u tru?ng” or head of the University of Social Sciences and Humanities, of Engineering in Vietnam should be translated as Rector, not as Dean, because a Vietnamese “hi?u tru?ng” would literally translate “Dean” back into Vietnamese as “tru?ng khoa” (one level below him/her) and would be greatly offended.
? Endowed chair, endowed professor: I would suggest “Giáo su” (Professor) and a footnote explanation, as there is nothing equivalent in Vietnam.
? Visiting professor as a lecturer: “giáo su th?nh gi?ng” or as Christina Firpo has mentioned, perhaps “giáo su bi?t th?nh” as used at Hoa Sen University
? Distinguished professor: coining a new term, following Vietnamese practice in a way, perhaps “Giáo su uu tú” (with a footnote to explain)? (nobody with such a title in Vietnam, but “uu tú” has been used to denote “excellence” and above a regular person in that rank, as in “nhà giáo uu tú” (above a regular teacher).
? Professor Emeritus/Emerita: normally translated into Vietnamese as “Giáo su danh d?” (honorary professor) but I wonder whether “giáo su huu trí” (retired professor) may best capture the situation.
? Adjunct: tough to translate but perhaps closest to “gi?ng viên/giáo su h?p d?ng” (lecturer/professor on short-term contract) in Vietnam.
? Professional specialist: “chuyên viên” (specialist) would do as this term in the Vietnamese bureaucracy denotes a pretty high rank.
? Fellow: “nghiên c?u sinh” is reserved for PhD student; I would suggest to go along with institutional context and to explain because I cannot think of an equivalent term in Vietnamese that can be used across different institutional contexts.
? Teaching Assistant (as discussed in Hue Tam’s email): “tr? gi?ng” would best capture the function of this person; I believe that “ph? gi?ng” was used in Saigon before 1975.
Hy
Hy V. Luong
Professor, Department of Anthropology
University of Toronto
Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 2S2.
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 5:54 PM
To: Hy Luong <vanluong@chass.utoronto.ca>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Hy's very helpful post reminds me that even Americans have trouble understanding the meaning of Liberal Arts College. Many think that such colleges do not offer math and sciences, which is of course, totally inaccurate. But try translating Liberal Arts College into Vietnamese!
Hue Tam Ho Tai
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From: Minh Trinh <minhtrinh@college.harvard.edu>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 7:33 PM
To: "Tai, Hue-Tam" <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Professor Hue-Tam,
One possible translation of "Liberal Arts Education" could be Giáo D?c Khai Phóng. This translation which may not seem any easier to grasp than the original term, and indeed does require the same amout of elaboration to completely explain. However, I find the step away from terms such as Ngh? Thu?t and Khoa H?c greatly useful when explaining the concept of Liberal Arts Education to young students and parents who are concerned about the return from investing in such an education.
--
Minh Trinh
Harvard College '14
346 Eliot Mail Center
Cambridge, MA 02138-7514
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 7:46 PM
To: Minh Trinh <minhtrinh@college.harvard.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thanks, Minh. Glad to hear from you!
I suspect giao duc khai phong would need a lot of explaining. And it's not just Vietnamese students and their parents who are concerned about the return to their investment in higher education. Go to history department websites, for instance, and check out how many have a section "What can I do with a history degree?"
Since you are involved in advising Vietnamese students who wish to study abroad, do you have some thoughts on the translation issues we've been discussing?
All the best,
Hue Tam Ho Tai
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From: Benedict Kerkvliet <ben.kerkvliet@anu.edu.au>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 7:52 PM
To: Hy Luong <vanluong@chass.utoronto.ca>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
The list of terms, Hy, is very helpful. Thanks!
But in Hanoi, "Khoa" is frequently rendered "Faculty" as in "Khoa su?" (Faculty of History) and its head as "chu? nhiê?m" "Department" is rendered "Bô? môn" with it's head also called "chu? nhiê?m." Or maybe "Khoa su?" is a special case in that, at the Hanoi National University, it has (or at least used to have) several Bô? môn such as sociology, ethnology, methodology, several types of history, etc.
Re. Emeritus Professor, I recently asked some academics in Hanoi about how to best translate it. A linguist said "Gia´o su danh du?," but non-linguistics said that doesn't capture its English meaning. They couldn't come up with an equivalent, so thanks for the suggestion of "Gia´o su huu tri´."
--
Ben Kerkvliet
Emeritus Professor
The Australian National University
Canberra, A.C.T. AUSTRALIA
and
Affiliate Graduate Faculty member
University of Hawai'i
Honolulu, Hawaii 96822
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From: Hy Luong <vanluong@chass.utoronto.ca>
Date: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 8:51 PM
To: Benedict Kerkvliet <ben.kerkvliet@anu.edu.au>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Hello Ben,
"Khoa s?" within the National U of Hanoi system, with smaller units within (Archaeology, different kinds of History), is typical for a "khoa" in Vietnam. A "khoa" in Vietnam normally has different sections (called "b? môn") within it. However, this situation does not differ from a lot of departments in North America: for example, Department of Anthropology in North America normally has sociocultural anthropology section, archaeology section, biological anthropology section. Department of Geography in North America typically has Physical Geography, Human Geography, Economic Geography sections, etc..
Any academic in Vietnam who insists that the word "Department" in North America has to be translated as "bô môn" ("section") would have trouble coming up with terms for sections within departments of anthropology and geography as described above. Furthermore, such an academic would most likely translate Faculty of Arts and Science (one level above department) into "Khoa ngh? thu?t và khoa h?c", and he/she would have trouble explaining to a Vietnamese audience why a "Khoa", supposedly encompassing one discipline or one field by Vietnamese definition, has in such a case within it about 30 units running from Mathematics, Physics, Geology, to Economics, Anthropology, Political Science, to History, English, French. Philosophy, and how mathematics would relate to English and French within such a "Khoa".
I would suggest that the translation of "department" in North America into "b? môn" in Vietnamese is an example of literal translation without an understanding of institutional context and functional equivalence.
If we go for institutional context and functional equivalence, Faculty/College/School of Arts and Science in North America should be translated into Vietnamese as "Tru?ng Ngh? thu?t và Khoa h?c" (or possibly as "Tru?ng t?ng h?p"), not "Khoa ngh? thu?t và khoa h?c"; "Department" in North America, as "khoa"; and "section" or smaller unit within a department in North America, as "b? môn".
Hy
-----Original Message-----
From: Benedict Kerkvliet [mailto:ben.kerkvliet@anu.edu.au]
Sent: March-24-13 10:53 PM
To: Hy Luong; 'Vietnam Studies Group'
Subject: RE: [Vsg] Vietnamese terms for academic ranks
The list of terms, Hy, is very helpful. Thanks!
But in Hanoi, "Khoa" is frequently rendered "Faculty" as in "Khoa su?" (Faculty of History) and its head as "chu? nhiê?m" "Department" is rendered "Bô? môn" with it's head also called "chu? nhiê?m." Or maybe "Khoa su?" is a special case in that, at the Hanoi National University, it has (or at least used to have) several Bô? môn such as sociology, ethnology, methodology, several types of history, etc.
Re. Emeritus Professor, I recently asked some academics in Hanoi about how to best translate it. A linguist said "Gia´o su danh du?," but non-linguistics said that doesn't capture its English meaning. They couldn't come up with an equivalent, so thanks for the suggestion of "Gia´o su huu tri´."
Ben Kerkvliet
--
Ben Kerkvliet
Emeritus Professor
The Australian National University
Canberra, A.C.T. AUSTRALIA
and
Affiliate Graduate Faculty member
University of Hawai'i
Honolulu, Hawaii 96822
----------
From: Tuan Hoang <tuannyriver@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:53 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
A big thank you for all the replies to my querries. I learn a lot from reading them. There's so much that I barely know where to begin... Being in history, I am naturally drawn to the outline of models in Oscar Salemink's post. Doesn't it sounds like another potentially terrific example of Vietnamese hybridity? Hue-Tam Ho Tai's mentioning of "rector" reminds me that it was the preferred term of translation during the RVN period. Thay Hy's posts not only illustrate the contextual challenges of translating these and related terms (e.g., "liberal arts education"), but also reflect the problems and difficulties of translating in general. It goes without saying that the ideal translator should be steep in linguistic knowledge - plus having a developed sensibility particular to the subject of translation (e.g., poetic sensibility for translating verse). But there must be also extensive experience in each of the cultures and societies (in this case, Vietnam and the U.S.) Which of course takes time to gain.
But I'm getting off course... This has been enlightening & thank you again.
Cheers,
Tuan Hoang
CSUSB-PDC
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From: Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:05 PM
To: Tuan Hoang <tuannyriver@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To add to the discussion:
The University of C?n Tho, founded in 1966, was founded on, I believe, an American model. It had 3-4 "khoa," some of them narrow, like the one in Law, but others that were much broader. When I was there in 1989, I seem to remember that they referred to themselves as a "comprehensive" or "integrated" (t?ng h?p) university, but I may be remembering incorrectly.
I can't quite reconstruct the history of that university, but it seems that its American-style integration began to change after 1975. If you go on to the website now, you see that the university seems to have reverted to the dominant Vietnamese understanding of "khoa," which is far narrower than, say, an American school of arts and sciences.
Shawn McHale
--
Shawn McHale
Associate Professor of History
George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
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From: Jason Morris-Jung <morrisjung@berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:10 PM
To: Tuan Hoang <tuannyriver@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I hope I am not too late on this thread (and thank you Tuan for bringing it up!), but I wanted to ask for more clarification on the PhD equivalents, re: tiên si, giáo su and phó giáo su. What had been explained to me previously--and it could be entirely wrong--was that PGS and GS were from the Soviet system. PGS was like an ABD (i.e., doctoral candidate without a dissertation) and GS was the full PhD. From this, I may have also assumed that TS was a more recent rendition of PhD, though it was remarked earlier that this was used only until 1970s.
In my study of academics in Vietnam, I have seen people list all combination of those three degrees as their academic title (e.g., GS.PGS, GS.TS., TS.PGS, and TS.GS.PGS, etc.) but I have never really figured out what they all mean together. Why would somebody be both GS and TS, or is that the distinction between an "endowed" professor and just a professor (it also seemed to me that GS was used pretty widely just to indicate "professor")? Or if PGS and GS mean assistant and full professor, why would someone list both in their academic title?
Thanks for any help!
jason
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From: Andrew Wells-Dang <andrewwd@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:29 PM
To: Jason Morris-Jung <morrisjung@berkeley.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Hi Jason and all,
"Tiên si" and "giáo su" are different titles. It's "Phó tiên si", not PGS that is the Soviet equivalent of ABD. PTS and TS are academic degree titles. While giáo su / phó giáo su are university ranks, similar in principle to Professor / Associate Professor in the US system, except they are also used in an honorary fashion for senior (including retired) scholars who are university affiliated but not necessarily full time employees. (So, in reference to an earlier posting, I'd think that an emeritus professor could just go on calling him or herself "giáo su" - it's what Vietnamese academics do.)
A full professor with a PhD would thus be described as GS.TS. Since more people are TS than GS, this leads to the frequent combination of PGS.TS. Both combinations are possible with PTS also, though less common. I presume this comes from Russian practice, though I'm not familiar with it. It is still used in other European contexts, for instance German where a professor would be formally addressed as "Herr Professor Doktor" (or "Frau Professorin Doktorin") and the title written as Prof. Dr.
Best regards,
TS. (but not GS or PGS) Andrew Wells-Dang
University of Oxfam, Department of Advocacy Coalition Studies
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From: Hai Bui <h.bui@uq.edu.au>
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:57 PM
To: Andrew Wells-Dang <andrewwd@gmail.com>, Jason Morris-Jung <morrisjung@berkeley.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Hi Andrew, Jason and all,
I just want to add one more ‘theory’ to explain the frequent combination of PGS.TS or GS.TS, which seems redundant to most Western academics. This is because there are still some GS or PGS in Vietnam without a PhD ("Tiên si “) or even a ADB (Phó tiên si). In the old days (especially before 1990s), many were promoted to full professor (GS) or associate professor title (PGS) without an advanced academic degree). The combination of GS.TS and PGS.TS titles is to distinguish with those people. And another important reason is that PhD (Tien si) in Vietnamese language is a highly honorable and respected title in the entire society dated back to thousand years of the pre-colonial mandarin-selecting examination system while GS and PGS are newly imported titles and mostly confined to the education field.
This is my 2 cents.
Best regards,
Thiem
BUI Hai Thiem (Mr.)
PhD Candidate
School of Political Science and International Studies
The University of Queensland
Brisbane QLD 4072, Australia
Office room: 547, Building 39a
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From: Jason Morris-Jung <morrisjung@berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 10:16 PM
To: Hai Bui <h.bui@uq.edu.au>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
THANKS ALL for your clarifications (both onlist and off). In retrospect, the distinction seems so obvious - doh! Though, I liked Mr. Thiem's theory, which I think helps to explain all the permutations I was seeing.
cheers,
jason