A kind of pidgin during the American era?
From: Grace Chew
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 9:04 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear list,
Can anyone tell me if a kind of pidgin existed during the American era in SV?
Many thanks in advance!
Best wishes,
Grace
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From: David Brown
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 9:22 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Between GI's and Vietnamese bar girls or other service providers?
"I love you too much, GI. You buy me Rolex?"
(Negative response)
"You cheap Charlie big time. You numbah 10!"
Similar conversational snatches available on request.
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From: Hong Bui
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 9:50 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Grace,
This movie "sad song of yellow skin" http://www.nfb.ca/film/sad-song-of-yellow-skin by Michael Rubbo
would give you some ideas.
regards,
Hong
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From: Ginh Li Giang
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 10:28 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Grace
Yes, I think it obviously existed if you mean a simplified form of communication between Vietnamese and American peoples during that period.
But I also think that it will take a lot of time to find good data, because it was a spoken code which was not recorded. The written form of that code, probably found in expressions, poems and literary works, if any, in my opinion is rare and not reliable for analysis.
I imagine there was rather the phenomenon of code-mixing and/or code-switching. Recordings and Interviews of American vets and old Vietnamese living in the SV would be very interesting.
By the way, an interesting article on Vnexpress about "Bill Sài Gòn" may give some interesting ideas about what the pidgin might be.
http://vnexpress.net/gl/xa-hoi/2011/12/cu-gia-noi-tieng-anh-hom-hinh/
All the best
Giang
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From: Ben Quick
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 10:32 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
“Freedom. Money. Fun. Love.”: The Warlore of Vietnamese Bargirls" Mai
Lan The Oral History Review 2011, Vol. 38, No. 2, pp. 308–330
Mai Lan Gustafsson
Correspondence to be sent to: E-mail: mai.gustafsson@cnu.edu.
Abstract: Memories of the Vietnam War abound in the minds of those
who survived it, be they veterans or civilians, Vietnamese or
American. Vietnamese refugees, forced to flee their homeland after
the war ended in 1975, tell particularly poignant stories of loss—of
country, of family, of tradition, and of identity. Not so the women
featured in this article. During the war, they served as bargirls in
Saigon, entertaining American soldiers. The stories they tell of the
war paint an entirely different picture: one of good times, and
camaraderie, and the exhilaration of being young and free in the city.
They were able to break free from tradition and the expectations
imposed on their gender because of the war, and because of that,
remember the war as the best time of their lives.
Keywords: bargirls, defying tradition, memory, refugees, Vietnam War
Here's the abstract of a great article from the OHR that might be of
use, along with the author's email.
Cheers!
Ben
--
Ben Quick
Department of English
University of Arizona
Ben's Homepage
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From: Christina Firpo
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:35 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I've seen a few examples of Anglo pidgin published in the Saigon newspapers in the 1960s, usually in cartoons and articles making fun of peasants, uneducated people, or women who socialize with American men.
Papers published early in the 1960s also include spoofs on French pidgin.
Best,
Christina
--
Christina Firpo, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Southeast Asian History
CalPoly University
San Luis Obispo, California
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From: Gmail
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 1:03 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Typically a pidgin is made of the lexicon of the dominant group and since the syntax is actually pretty close between the two my assumption is that the pidgin would be Vietnamese learning some English words.
Lots of copula deletion and flipping the adj behind the noun head etc. but not much use of Vietnamese
Michael
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From: David Brown
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 2:25 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
GI's, typically, were only in VN for a year and poorly incentivized to learn Vietnamese. Some pidgin phrases did, however, incorporate Vietnamese words, e.g., di di mau (Beat it, Scram!), dinky-dow you! (you're nuts! (diên cái d?u). GI's were also the source of some borrowings from pidgin Japanese (Papa-san, Mama-san) and, I think, Korean (hooch, for house).
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From: Nick Turse
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 4:13 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
And French too, as in “boo-coo VC” -- beaucoup or many Viet Cong...
In interviews in rural areas, I found many Vietnamese who grew up during the war had very good recall of GI pidgin, like:
"numbah one" -- number one or "the best"
"chop-chop" -- food, esp. canned c-rations
"boom-boom" -- sex
as well as the previously mentioned mama-san, papa-san, baby-san, VC, etc.
And many of the U.S. veterans I've interviewed over the years have retained and still use pidgin from "hootch" to, sadly, "gook" when talking about the war...
Best,
Nick
Nick Turse, PhD, MPH
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From: Robert Whitehurst
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 4:48 AM
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Being fairly fluent in Vietnamese in the early 70s, I didn’t have the language challenges of a lot of the servicemen in Viet Nam, but I recall well some of the phrases which entertained me with the mix of languages. This is anecdotal of course, but the girlfriends’ challenge “I love you beaucoup, you love me ti-ti, GI beaucoup butterfly mamma-san” was one which mixed English, Vietnamese, French and Japanese.
One of the more creative incidents of the use of pidgin happened one afternoon while I was sitting in a jeep outside the MP station at B?n xe m?i upriver from C?n Tho. A couple of kids were “clowning around” on the front end of the jeep’s hood when I realized that they might be diverting my attention, so I climbed out of my seat to find that their partner was in fact stealing the wheel off of the back of the jeep…this as he dashed by me, wheel in hand. I was able to snatch him and hold on; he wasn’t much taller than the tire’s diameter, so it wasn’t that difficult and he hadn’t realized I was out of the jeep. Holding on to him I marched him back behind the vehicle and made him put the wheel back on, all the time telling him that he “should be a good boy”, “go to school”, “not steal from GIs” and that if I caught him again I was going to tell his mother on him…all this in Vietnamese. This little drama attracted quite a crowd, lots of laughter and some good natured vocal encouragement to one or the other of the two of us. I don’t think he was ashamed of the stealing, at least that was not a lesson that a big American soldier was going to teach him, but his face was soon wet with tears from his loss of face.
When the tire was finally secured I let him go and he dashed off straight-away down the nearest ally. When just far enough from me that he was sure I couldn’t catch him again he stopped, turned around, raised one fist and middle finger at me and shouted in his little voice, “F..k you GI ! You not numbah ten, you numbah ‘welve !”
So in my memories I’ve been “number twelve” ever since.
Warm regards…Rob
R. Whitehurst
Veteran and independent researcher
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From: Dan Duffy
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 5:46 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Grace, my impression from knowing the soldiers, contractors et al. and
from their published written record is that the invasion was a site in
the development of the general non-intellectual abroad lexicon of
English speakers. Marine speech is an ongoing treasure of this stuff.
My impression from the memoirs and novels is that it went farther in
speech among the foreigners than between them and non-English or
French-speaking Vietnamese. It's an imaginary for us rather than a
working trade language with them.
For an extreme example see Gustav Hasford's infantry talking to each
other. It is my guess that most of the time most men scrupulously
avoided this speech in the same spirit that I avoid using the black
speech I am not only fluent but learned in.
Then there are the gifted and trained and extraverted linguists like
Robert who were in my opinion hearing and speaking in the Vietnamese
speech world. Some of them, the missionaries, would have been taking
part in the Vietnamese/upland pidgins.
Your question raises in my mind something I don't know anything about
which there must be literary evidence of. What was the pidgin coming
the other way, from Vietnamese speakers who took a role in speaking to
the non-Vietnamese speaking Americans?
My favorite anecdote, from just before Tet 1968 when David Willson was
mulling over an offer from the Army to extend for a just a few weeks,
was spoken by the middle-aged woman who cleaned his room with
conspicuous self-respect and no evidence of knowing English or
anything about his affairs. She handed him his shoes one morning and
said, "Go home."
--
Dan Duffy
Editor, Viet Nam Literature Project
Chair, Books & Authors: Viet Nam, Inc.
108 East Hammond Street
Durham, NC 27704
USA
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From: Dan Duffy
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 6:27 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Oh, and some Special Forces spoke a French pidgin learned from their
upland strikers. See Alan Farrell for his literary record and
references to other such including French sources.
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From: Grace Chew
Date: Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 11:00 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear David, Hong Bui, Giang, Ben, Christina, Michael, Nick, Robert, and Dan,
I was very enlightened with what I read! And even more amazed with your vivid memories of your readings and of those times!
I have to track down those newspapers, Christina...And Robert, those stories of yours are just hilarious. Is that Gustav Hasford infantry talking is available in the war archives, Dan? (Pardon my ignorance.)
I will contact you offline when I need more information.
Many thanks to all of you for the most scrumptious "appetizer"! Left no crumbs behind...
Best wishes,
Grace
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From: David Del Testa
Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 6:35 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear colleagues,
Perhaps I missed others this, but here is some bibliography on an earlier period of time and pidgin French-Vietnamese that some may find useful as well. Best wishes, David
Heinecke, John E. "Tây Bòi: Notes on the Pidgin French Spoken in Vietnam." In Pidginization and Creolization of Languages, edited by Dell Hymes, 43 - 46. Mona, Jamaica: Cambridge University Press, 1971.
Love, Susan. "Le Tây Bôi: Un Pidgin Français Du Vietnam." Diplôme d'Études approfondies (DEA), Université de Provence - Aiz-Marseille I, 2001.
________. "French and Tay Boi in Vietnam: A Study of Language Policy, Practice, and Perceptions." Masters, University of Adelaide, 2000.
Nguy?n Ð?ng Liem. "Cases and Verbs in Pidgin French (Tay Boi) in Vietnam." Journal of Creole Studies (1977): 127-156.
David Del Testa, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Chair
Lewisburg, Pennsylvania 17837 USA
Treasurer, Western Society for French History
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 6:46 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thanks, David, for these references.
I remember reading about leo leo me xong do (hoc tro nha nuoc , scholarship student) and mem xot xieng do na bac, do na cot (meme chose chien, y'en a barbe, y'en a cornes-- goat).
And, slightly offtopic to Grace, some men wanting to express friendship and equality but preferring not to use may tao would use instead toa and moa ("toi" and "moi").
Hue Tam Ho Tai