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From: Grace Chew <gclchew@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:43 PM
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Dear List:
Can someone explain what this thanh ngu means?
bánh sáp đi bánh quy lại (in Viet fonts)
Ba'nh sa'p ddi ba'nh quy la.i (retyped in English fonts)
Many thanks,
Grace
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From: Toan (CSDP) <dthypt@gmail.com>
Date: 2008/6/13
To: l vsg <VSG@u.washington.edu>
Dear Grace,
"Bánh sáp đi, bánh quy lại" = "Có đi có lại mới toại lòng nhau" = "You scratch my back , and I'll scratch yours."
Hope it helps.
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From: Vietnam Language Centre in Singapore <vgn@pacific.net.sg>
Date: Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 2:49 AM
To: gclchew@yahoo.co.uk, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Toan and Grace,
As a Southern Vietnamese I am more familiar with
"Bánh ít đi, bánh qui lại"
And
"Có qua có lại mới toại lòng nhau"
Cheers.
Huy
Vietnam Language Centre
Singapore
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From: Hue-Tam Ho Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Date: 2008/6/15
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Agree with Huy (I'm a Southerner, too).
It's not just about "favors" but about what Yan Yunxiang calls The Flow of Gifts and Shaun Malarney calls Tinh cam; both involve reciprocity. A way of expressing reciprocity and acquaintanceship is "quan he qua lai."
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
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From: Trinh Thi Kim Ngoc <ihskimngoc@yahoo.com>
Date: 2008/6/16
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear friends:
"Banh it di, banh quy lai" co the hieu la su trao doi co di co lai. co the dich tuong duong nhu thanh ngu:
"Ong co chan gio, Ba tho chai ruou"
Trinh Thi Kim Ngoc
Institute of Human Studies
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From: Toan (CSDP) <dthypt@gmail.com>
Date: 2008/6/16
To: l vsg <VSG@u.washington.edu>
Dear all,
I do not agree with Kim Ngoc on "Ong co chan gio, Ba tho chai ruou" (i.e. Ông có chân giò. Bà thò chai rượu) whose good version is, I believe, "Ông đưa chân giò. Bà thò chai rượu."
I believe:
1. that the original version is "Có đi có lại." which is the shorter form of "Có đi có lại, mới toại lòng nhau."
2. that another original version is "Có qua có lại." which is the shorter form of "Có qua có lại, mới toại lòng nhau."
3. that "đi" is the Northern version of "qua", and "qua" is the Southern version of "đi", but I cannot tell what derives from what.
4. that, because of #3, I cannot tell if the Southern "Có qua có lại, mới toại lòng nhau." derives from the Northern "Có đi có lại, mới toại lòng nhau.", or if it is the other way around.
5. that "Bánh sáp đi. Bánh quy lại." is a good, colloquial version of "Có đi có lại." However, I cannot tell if it is a Southern version. I have eaten "Bánh quy", but I have not eaten "Bánh sáp", and I do not know what "Bánh sáp" is like. (Is it a kind of "bánh" made with bee wax?)
6. that "Bánh ít đi. Bánh quy lại." is a good, colloquial version of "Có qua có lại.". "Bánh ít" is from the South, and so "Bánh ít đi. Bánh quy lại." should be a Southern version.
7. that "Ông đưa chân giò. Bà thò chai rượu." is a way to say "Có đi có lại, mới toại lòng nhau.", but it is definitely NOT an idiom.
8. that "Ông đưa chân giò. Bà thò chai rượu." is used by Vietnamese to describe the phenomenon of Vietnamese governmental staff using their "special rights" in exchanging their "special benefits".
Have a nice day.
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