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From: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Dear All,
I wonder whether any of the list members has information about the forms and social importance of big-game hunting in French Indochina. After all, the fauna of Indochina has much in common with that of India, with tigers, leopards, elephants, gaurs, koupreys, and various species of deer constituting the big game most attractive for hunters. It is well known that in India, both in the regions directly administered by the British and in the "India of the Princes," big-game hunting was not simply a hobby but also an important way to demonstrating social prestige and linking the members of the British and Indian elites together. The tiger hunts organized by the various Indian rulers were extremely elaborate, large-scale operations, and some maharajah shot hundreds of tigers. Alas, I do not know whether the French colons and travellers in Indochina practised hunting in such a well-organized and systematic form as it was the case in British-dominated India. In India, this interest in hunting was certainly rooted both in British and Indian traditions; but Vietnamese Confucian traditions may have created a different attitude toward hunting. Has any list member found some information about this issue?
All the best,
Balazs Szalontai
Mongolia International University
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From: Charles Keith <charles.keith@yale.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 2:28 PM
US President Theodore Roosevelt's son (also named Theodore) went on at least one birding/hunting expedition in Indochina which produced a few published works that I know of - information below:
Outram Bangs, Birds of the Kelley-Roosevelt Expedition to Indochina (1931)
Harold Coolidge and Theodore Roosevelt, Three Kingdoms of Indo-China (1933)
-Charles Keith
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From: Joe Hannah <jhannah@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Dear Balazs and all,
This is not an answer to your question, but a note of related interest:
In a used bookshop in the US in the 1980s, I found a tourism promotional brochure from the Republic of Vietnam, dated 1965. In it is a section on big game hunting in the jungles of Vietnam and mentions several game species, including tigers. It encourages tourists to come to Vietnam to enjoy the hunting, but admonishes them to register all firearms with customs at the airport upon arrival.
Encouraging Americans armed with high-powered firearms into their remote areas in 1965? What were they thinking? I chuckle at the irony everytime I look at that brochure...
Joe Hannah
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From: Oscar Salemink <OJHM.Salemink@fsw.vu.nl>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 4:28 PM
You may want to try:
William Baze, "Tiger Tiger" (London 1957: Elek Books; on tiger hunting in Indochina). He also authored "Un quart de siecle parmi les elephants" (Saigon 1950: Edition IFOM).
Former emperor Bao Dai was known for his interest in hunting, possessing hunting lodges in various sites in the Central Highlands. There are numerous references to this in various sources, including Gerald Hickey.
Oscar Salemink
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From: rowens@uga.edu <rowens@uga.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 7:48 PM
Balazs Szalontai,
That is an excellent question! Please share any results you may receive off list with the listserve.
-Rich
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From: Edward Miller <Edward.G.Miller@dartmouth.edu>
Reply-To: Edward.Miller@dartmouth.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Ngo Dinh Nhu was also an avid big-game hunter who particularly liked to hunt tigers—though apparently without much success. In his book Chuye^n Du+o+’ng Ru+’ng, the author Huynh Van Lang (who worked for Nhu) describes how RVN officials in the highlands would arrange hunting expeditions for Nhu and tried to use livestock as bait to draw out the tigers. But according to Lang, Nhu was never able to bag any of the big cats.
Ed Miller
Dartmouth College
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From: John Kleinen <j.g.g.m.kleinen@uva.nl>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:49 PM
For context, compairison and dualism, see: Frontiers of Fear. Tigers and People in the Malay World 1600-1950 by Peter Boomgaard, Yale University Press, , 2001. Only a few references to the Indochinese tiger. For data on hunting see L'INDOCHINE MODERNE DE 1931 PAR EUGENE TESTON ET MAURICE PERCHERON , ENCYCLOPEDIE ADMINISTRATIVE , TOURISTIQUE , ARTISTIQUE ET ECONOMIQUE, with a complete lemma on hunting.
John Kleinen
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From: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Dear Joe,
the authors of that tourist brochure seems to have had a good foresight. See the following stories about encounters between tigers and American soldiers in Vietnam:
<<One of the most unusual tiger stories to arise was the case of the 3rd Recon Battalion Marine who survived a tiger attack while on patrol in Quang Tri Province in 1968, near where a Marine had allegedly* been killed by a tiger in November 1967. The 400 pound man-eating tiger attacked swiftly and silently, and the first warning the six-man patrol had was screaming from one of the four sleeping Marines. Startled while feeding on the man by the other Marines, the tiger started dragging its prey away before it was killed. The lucky victim was medivaced suffering lacerations and bites on the neck.
In another incident in 1969, a Marine in an ambush position in dense bush felt a tug on his leg and saw a large shape in the black night. After radioing in movement around them and despite being 100% alert, the tiger stealthily returned and grabbed another patrol member before being blown away by five excited Marines. Their buddy was released just slightly the worse for wear. According to SOP, they relocated their ambush, taking the dead 400 pound tiger with them so that they could extract it the next day. Alas, the monsoon meant that choppers couldn't get up that day, so their focus shifted to preserving the corpse before it started rotting. Fortunately, one of the fellows in the rear radioed that tannic acid, used for curing hides, was contained in urine. The next day, a very smelly carcass made it back to base still in shape for photographs.
Around the third week of May 1970, two weeks after the LZ Betty perimeter was penetrated by enemy soldiers in two places, Frenchy Lagimoniere and two other soldiers of B Company, 1st Battalion (Mechanized), 50th Infantry were assigned to pull night guard duty on Bunker 4. They manned the bunker at around 6 p.m., checked their ammunition, did their prep work and settled in for the night. At around 11 p.m., Frenchy was pulling duty and heard some noise coming from out in front of the bunker. He alerted the others and searched carefully through the starlight scope to find the source.
He remembered that night, "As I was looking for whatever made the noise a dark blur flashed in front of my lens followed by a white blur. This happened a couple of times while I was trying to get a fix on what was going on. Then I caught sight of a lizard about 6 feet long trying to scurry away from something. As I looked to my right, I saw a tiger crouched down lying in the elephant grass. Every time the lizard would move the tiger would pounce on it and slap it around like a toy animal. This happened over and over again. I pointed this out to the other guys on the bunker and we took turns watching. During the half hour this went on, others from the greenline also observed the tiger. Then it was gone."
It's a shame that the tiger hadn't come by a few weeks earlier while the NVA were sneaking up and played "cat and mouse" with Charlie.>>
http://www.ichiban1.org/html/stories/story_46_tiger.htm
All the best,
Balazs
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From: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Edward.Miller@dartmouth.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Dear Edward, Oscar and Ryan,
thanks a lot for these precious pieces of information! As soon as I manage to visit a major U.S. or West European library, I will look up the books enumerated by you. By any chance, has any of you read some of these books? The methods which Nhu used in his attempts to shoot tigers seem to have been quite simple and conventional. French hunters in West and Equatorial Africa used the same techniques to shoot leopards and lions. This kind of method was preferred by persons hunting on an individual basis, all the more so because success was by no means guaranteed. The tiger might come, or might not. In contrast, large-scale Indian tiger hunts, which employed hundreds of beaters, were organized with the aim of creating guaranteed shooting opportunities for several guests. Encircled by beaters, shikaris and stops, the tigers had little chance to escape unless neither the guest nor his hosts could shoot straight (if only the guest happened to be notoriously incompetent, the hosts readily shot the tiger for him, claiming that it was hit by the guest's bullet). This is why I say that these large-scale hunting operations were primarily social events. Prestigious guests were to be pleased at all costs, no matter whether the methods used were sportsmanlike or not. I wonder whether these techniques were used in Indochina as well. I am particularly interested in whether Vietnamese elephants were ever used for tiger or gaur hunting in the same way as their famous Indian counterparts.
BTW, I felt a kind of Schadenfreude when I heard that Nhu failed to bag a tiger. On my part, I am much more pro-tiger than pro-Nhu...:)))
All the best and thanks again,
Balazs Szalontai
Mongolia International University
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From: Liam C. Kelley <liam@hawaii.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Dear Balazs and others,
On the issue of methods, Roland Dorgelès work On the Mandarin Road (~1920s) has a hilarious section on tiger hunting in Da Lat. He describes hotel staff leaving meat in the jungle to attract a tiger. European "hunters" would then wait in the hotel until a staff member would interrupt them as they were having their after-dinner drinks to inform them that "It is time." At which point they would drive out to the place where the meat had been left, and the "hunter" would step out of the car to shoot the tiger in its headlights. . .
I could have remembered some of these detals incorrectly, but that was the gist of that passage. If there is any truth to what he recorded, then it definitely was a "social event."
Liam Kelley
University of Hawaii
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From: Joe Hannah <jhannah@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Groucho Marx to fellow hotel guest: "I once shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know..."
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From: Marc J. Gilbert <mgilbert@hpu.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 1:14 AM
Attachments: winmail.dat
Further bibliography:
>From Culture of Imperialism website: http://worldhistoryconnected.press.uiuc.edu/3.1/gilbert.html (other topics are treated with explicit French Indochina sources)
Bayers, Peter L., Imperial Ascent: Mountaineering, Masculinity, and Empire. Boulder, CO: University Press of Colorado, 2003.
*Beinart, William. "Empire, Hunting and Ecological Change in Southern and Central Africa." Past and Present 128 (1990): 162-186.
________. "Men, Science, Travel and Nature in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth-Century Cape." Journal of Southern African Studies 24:4 (1998): 775-199.
Bristow, Joseph. Empire Boys: Adventures in a Man's World. London: Harper Collins, 1991.
Inglis, James. Sport and Work on the Nepaul Frontier: Twelve Years Sporting Reminiscences of an Indigo Planter. Guttenberg free E-Book no. 10818, 2004.
Mackenzie, John M. "The Imperial Pioneer and Hunter and the British Masculine Stereotype in Late Victorian and Edwardian Times." In J. A. Mangan and James Walvin, eds. Manliness and Morality: Middle-class masculinity in Britain and America, 1800-1940. Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1987:176-198.
Stoddart, Brian. "Sport, Cultural Imperialism, and Colonial Response in the British Empire." Comparative Studies in Society and History 30 (1998): 649-673.
Warren, Allen. "Citizens of Empire: Baden-Powell, Scouts and Guides and an Imperial Ideal, 1900-1940." In John M. Mackenzie, ed. Imperialism and Popular Culture, Manchester and Dover, N.H.: Manchester University Press, 1986: 232-256.
_____. "Popular Manliness: Baden Powell, Scouting and the Development of Manly Character." In J. A. Mangan and James Walvin, eds. Manliness and Morality: Middle-class masculinity in Britain and America, 1800-1940. Manchester: Manchester University Press, 1987: 199-219.
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From: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 1:26 AM
Dear Liam,
such patently "unfair" methods were also practised in India. As far as I know, the worst of all was to build a house in the middle of the jungle, and put some bait (preferably a living buffalo calf) in its immediate vicinity, close enough to be seen from the window. The heroic hunter then waited for the tiger in the most comfortable way possible, i.e., he was resting in his bed until the tiger finally arrived. Then he shot the tiger from the window in the light of a powerful reflector, and returned to his bed. But hunters also went around in cars, both at night and in daytime. In British Africa, night-time hunting from cars was allegedly prohibited after some serious incidents. Namely, some hunters were a bit too eager to send a bullet into any pair of shining eyes they spotted in the darkness, and when they got out of their car to pick up the trophy, they found a dead African there... I wonder what sort of hunting regulations existed in French Indochina. Were there any game reserves comparable to the ones the British established in Africa?
Best,
Balazs
"Liam C. Kelley" <liam@hawaii.edu> wrote:
Dear Balazs and others,
On the issue of methods, Roland DorgeleÌs work On the Mandarin Road (~1920s) has a hilarious section on tiger hunting in Da Lat. He describes hotel staff leaving meat in the jungle to attract a tiger. European "hunters" would then wait in the hotel until a staff member would interrupt them as they were having their after-dinner drinks to inform them that "It is time." At which point they would drive out to the place where the meat had been left, and the "hunter" would step out of the car to shoot the tiger in its headlights. . .
[Quoted text hidden]
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From: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 1:29 AM
Dear Marc,
thanks a lot for these useful sources! I will read them as soon as I get access to any major Western library.
All the best and thanks again,
Balazs
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From: David Marr <dgm405@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 5:31 PM
I didn't read all this big-game hunting exchange carefully, but wonder if anyone was curious about how local people felt about the western (and westernized Vietnamese) hunters in their midst? My limited knowledge from central Vietnam points to a deep, perhaps spiritual fear/respect for tigers in particular (Ong Cop). What did upland peoples or Kinh think when they witnessed the practices described in this exchange?
David Marr
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From: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Dear David,
here is an interesting article about the cultural perception, hunting and protection of tigers in Vietnam:
http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~vern/ong-cop/tiger.html
Traditional Korean perceptions of tigers seem to be relatively similar, with the tiger regarded as lord of the forest and mountains. However, I find it remarkable that in Korean folktales, tigers are often shown as being outsmarted by some small but cunning animals, or by humans. That is, the tiger may be a symbol of power, but not so much of knowledge and ingenuity. I wonder how tigers are depicted in Vietnamese folktales.
It may be worth adding that in areas where wild ungulates are relatively plentiful, only old or injured tigers become maneaters (see the famous books of Jim Corbett about Indian tigers). Thus the traditional Vietnamese and Korean respect for tigers was not without reason. It was based on the realization that tigers, though strong and courageous, do not necessarily mess with humans if they are left alone. On the other hand, domestic animals are often too tempting for tigers, which inevitably creates conflicts with villagers.
My favorite story about local respect for tigers is about an Indian village which had its "own" tiger, a big male that behaved remarkably peacefully if he encountered humans. He never killed anyone, though he was somewhat fond of killing cattle. The villagers held him in respect, not only because of his peaceful nature but also because they realized that he regularly predated on deer, wild pigs and other animals which damaged their crops. In exchange for his role as protector of their crops, peasants tolerated his occasional killings of cattle, which they regarded as a kind of tax. Actually, they even tried to offer him some old and useless cattle in order to spare the younger ones, but the tiger's taste was refined enough to prefer the meat of younger animals. All in all, he was liked and respected, and when a British hunter came and shot the tiger, villagers were sad and furious. They apparently knew and understood tigers better than that hunter.
Best,
Balazs Szalontai
Mongolia International University
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From: Mike High <mike.high@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 7:39 AM
Dear Balazs,
The best-known folktale that I have heard concerning tigers is translated into English as “How the Tiger Got his Stripes.” I found a representative version at:
http://www.vnstyle.vdc.com.vn/mycollection/myths_legends/howthetigergotitsstripes.html
The respectful attitude towards tigers has many expressions, including the tiger-elephant combats at the “Hổ Quyền” or “Tiger Ring” in Huế. The great lord of Gia Dinh, Lê Văn Duyệt, was said to be accompanied by a pack of dogs and a tiger, but he was possibly also the host of one of these tiger-elephant combats staged for the benefit of foreign visitors. The “combat” was a pathetic spectacle—the tiger’s claws were removed and its mouth sewn shut so that It could not harm the Imperial elephant. (If I recall, this latter event was described In the Finlayson account of the Crawfurd expedition of 1821-1822.)
:: Mike High
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From: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Attachments: Tigers Killed in Public.pdf
Dear Mike,
thanks a lot for this valuable information! The staged tiger-elephant combats described by you show a considerable similarity with the tiger and leopard fights organized by Javanese rulers. The Javanese were also anxious not to give any chance to the big cats. The animals were forced to enter a square encircled by a high number of men armed with long spears, and even if they somehow managed to break through the ring of spears, they were pursued and killed. Tigers were also forced to fight buffalo bulls, much in the same way as Californians staged pit fights between bulls and grizzly bears in the 19th century.
Of the Javanese tiger fights, see the attachment (an article from "New York Times," October 29, 1882).
All the best,
Balazs
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From: Tobias RETTIG <tobiasrettig@smu.edu.sg>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 6:06 AM
Dear All,
This was posted a month ago and I do not recall all the details and whether any links to photographs were part of the discussion, but it not, here's the link to a dead tiger --> http://nguyentl.free.fr/html/cadre_sommaire_fr.htm
Best,
Tobias
SMU, Singapore
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