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On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:15 AM, Mark Ashwill <markashwill@hotmail.com> wrote:
Here's one excerpt:
In 2009 two Fulbright people, T. Vallely and B. Wilkinson, wrote an article about higher education in Vietnam that disparaged and insulted the nation’s scientific researchers and educators. The Fulbright people (with coauthors) wrote a second report that year, repeating the same intemperate criticisms of Vietnam’s scientific and political leaders. However, neither report had a single word of criticism of the university system in the U.S.
MAA
Hanoi
On Apr 1, 2017, at 12:12 AM, Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu> wrote:
The article referenced mixes excellent points with completely misguided ones. After all, some points are correct -- bureaucracy can be stifling, and the American model has some obvious problems (as well as strengths).
In the excerpt cited, the author maligns persons associated with the Fulbright Economics Teaching Program (now Fulbright University) for no good reason.
I think my key beef is that the author needs to realize that he, a mathematician, who has engaged Vietnamese mathematicians, has a narrow vantage point on the promises of Vietnam -- but perhaps no other discipline in Vietnam can match mathematics. It so happens that Vietnam has long been strong in this discipline. For a country at its stage of development, it is superb. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is Vietnam's strongest discipline. Ngô Bảo Châu, trained in mathematics in Vietnam, then in France, won the Fields Medal in 2010. That's like winning a Nobel prize. He is not alone -- there is a tradition of mathematics training, and there will be, one assumes, more such winners in the future. Vietnam is justly proud of its strength in this discipline, and its strength is internationally recognized.
But one cannot extrapolate from obvious strength in mathematics to strength in other fields. Vietnam suffers from uneven development in its disciplines, and faces huge challenges in education. All the power to it -- but there is nothing wrong with criticism as long as it leads to improvements.
Shawn McHale
George Washington University
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Mark Ashwill <markashwill@hotmail.com> wrote:
Here's a response from Neal (https://sites.math.washington.edu/~koblitz), who is not a VSGer:
(1) I agree with him that mathematics is at a higher level than any other academic field in Vietnam.
(2) It is not true that as a mathematician I have a "narrow vantage point". For over thirty years, along with my wife, I have collaborated with the VWU on the Kovalevskaia Prize for women in science, technology, and medicine. In that capacity I have met with and learned about the work of some impressive researchers in several branches of science, technology, and medicine, not just mathematics.
(3) I do not criticize the Fulbright people "for no good reason". There's an excellent reason to criticize them. The Vallely report of 2009 was toxic, and it was full of falsehoods (which I enumerated in my refutation and in the Vietnam section of my webpage, as well as in discussions with many people). Many Vietnamese are afraid to directly criticize the Fulbright people, because they don't want to be viewed as "anti-American" or "hard-line" or defenders of the government or "anti-reform", and also because the Fulbright people have some powerful allies in Vietnam. So it is really up to Americans like you and me to point out when Vallely & the others are dead wrong in what they're saying and doing.
Best,
Neal
From: Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] "Higher education: Is it wise for Vietnam to imitate the US?" by Neal Koblitz
Date: April 2, 2017 at 11:10:10 AM PDT
To: Mark Ashwill <markashwill@hotmail.com>
Cc: "Vsg@u.washington.edu" <Vsg@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: mchale@gwu.edu
That's a reasonable response.
I accept the argument that the author is not simply looking at issues from the perspective of a mathematician.
But let's put the 2009 "report" attacked in the excerpt in context -- it was 11 pages long. That's not a comprehensive report. And did it "disparage" and "insult" Vietnamese higher education? it says things that Vietnamese have said, in Vietnamese, in newspaper articles!
Vietnam faces huge challenges in higher education. I'm optimistic that in the long run, it will surmount many of them.
Shawn McHale
On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 6:01 AM, David Brown <nworbd@gmail.com> wrote:
"[US university] administrators spend much of their time going to pointless meetings, attending expensive unnecessary conferences, and producing a tremendous number of wasteful publications that almost nobody reads."
This sounds precisely like the Party branch meetings that ambitious Vietnamese college administrators and instructors wisely attend.
From: Chuck Searcy <chuckusvn@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] "Higher education: Is it wise for Vietnam to imitate the US?" by Neal Koblitz
Date: April 2, 2017 at 5:38:49 PM PDT
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
From a Vietnamese friend, name withheld:
"It maybe true that Vietnamese students skill in maths, especially those at secondary and high school, is higher than students in some other countries. But the other side of this medal is that we had so much pressure in our childhood to be excellent at maths and not on other skills that are equally, if not more, important for our future. Our high school years suffered from constant fear with the possible diatribe and punishment from math teachers and our parents for not being good at maths, despite the fact that many of us dislike maths. Our teachers would tell us to 'go hang ourselves up on a tree for being too dump with maths'. We had to bike some long way at night to have those extra-curriculum lessons (and paid) with maths at the teachers' homes. We had to learn by hearts so many formula that were very advanced but we rarely use today. While maths may be enjoyed by some, our childhoods were miserable with this experience. And let's look at how many Ngo Bao Chau we have produced in regards to the millions of us high school students study day and night for being excellent at maths? Many of us, very good with maths at high school ended up with mediocre careers that have little to do with maths, plus disadvantaging ourselves from lacking other social science knowledge.
"International scholars may offer insights into the higher education system in Vietnam, but a consideration or recommendation solely from a mathematician perspective without understanding the issue from a Vietnamese perspective is purely biased. We think that part of the problem of higher education in Vietnam is that it places too much emphasis on maths over other sciences."
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CHUCK SEARCY
Hà Nội, Việt Nam
Email chuckusvn@gmail.com
Skype chucksearcy
Cell VN +8 490 342 0769
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