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From: Vern Weitzel
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:08 PM
Hi everyone,
A small question about dates. What were the important dates for
the Republic of Viet Nam during the 60-70s? Are there any days during
the year when people in the US (for example) would make a point of
showing the (RVN) flag as a tribute/remembrance/holiday (other
than Tet)?
I see many RVN flags at Vietnamese events in the US, but I don't
know if there are special days each year.
If you can advise, thanks! Vern
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From: Hue-Tam Ho Tai
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Vern:
When I was growing up, we had Tet holiday (five days off with the celebration of the battle of Dong Da); the Trung sisters holiday (big parade with two high school students perched on elephants); Independence Day with parade; Christmas and solar New Year.
For lots of people, the more meaninful holidays were the Buddha's Birthday, Thanh Minh, when people went to visit their ancestral graves, and Vu Lan (a Buddhist holy day which in the north became the Day of Atonement).
Individuals did not fly the RVN flag. Ngo Dinh Diem tried to get people to fly the RVN flag higher and bigger than other flags--and that led to the Buddhist crisis in 1963.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
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From: Edward Miller
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Dear Vern:
Regarding the RVN National day: During the Diem era, the RVN national day was October 26, which commemorated the day in 1955 on which the RVN was proclaimed. After Diem's ouster in 1963, RVN leaders changed the national day to November 1 to commemorate the day of the coup. (Officially, the coup was referred to as a "revolution.") In addition to the holidays Hue-Tam mentions, I believe that the festival of the Hung kings was also widely observed in the South, but I don't know when or whether that was an official holiday.
Regarding post-1975 uses of the RVN flag in the US and elsewhere: others would know better than I, but my impression is that the day most firmly associated with the flag in many overseas Vietnamese communities is April 30. Perhaps the shifting nature of the national day(s) prior to 1975 accounts for the post-1975 focus on commemorating the end of the RVN (as opposed to its founding)?
Ed Miller
Dartmouth College
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From: dien nguyen
Date: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Hello Vern
When I lived in Saigon (1954-1961), every house had to fly the flag on dates connected with Ngo Dinh Diem's assumption of office: 7 July (the date NDD became Prime Minister in 1954), 26 October (the date of the referendum in 1955 which saw NDD becoming President of the Republic of VietNam. This date was celebrated as National Day [Quo^'c kha'nh] under Diem). After Diem's overthrow in 1963, 1 November became the new National Day.
In the Saigon cinemas, before each film session, one had to stand up to salute the flag while the national anthem played, followed by the song "Hommage to President Ngo [suy to^n Ngo Tong thong]" while NDD's picture filled the screen.
I don't remember if we had the fly the flag during Tet, but it was probably required.
Dien
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From: John Whitmore
Date: Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:22 AM
Regarding Hung Vuong Day, in 1966, I was in Hue the third week of March and saw the Hung Vuong celebrations there (very much with the Republic's colors), then, as I recall, when I returned to Saigon there was such a celebration there a week or two later, not nearly as colorful. So this celebration seems to have varied by time and place. John Whitmore
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From: Nu-Anh Tran
Date: Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:37 PM
Dear list,
I think everyone else probably has the major dates covered. Although some holidays weren't as important, the gov't often found ways to make them quite nationalistic, so there might have been flag waving. In addition to what has already been said... (This is for the Diem period.)
Int'l Labor Day (1 May) - maybe flags, esp if the labor unions were granted permission to conduct public marches
Confucius (28 Sep)
Tran Hung Dao (20 of 8th month, lunar calendar) - Tran Hung Dao was the patron saint of the navy, I believe, so this holiday sometimes witnessed a great deal flag waving, esp along Ben Bach Dang in Saigon
Chien Si Tran Vong (Remembrance of War Dead) - this may have been merged w/ a different holiday later, like Thanh Minh, but it was on 2 Nov in the late 50s and early 60s
Ngay Quoc Han (Nat'l Day of Shame) - 20 Jul, for the Geneva Accord (somewhat informal, not always an annual commemoration, but I think it later gets revived under the 2nd Rep)
Int'l Declaration of Human Rights (10 Dec) - generally no public demonstration, but lots of political indoctrination classes for civil servants, and definitely lots of flags at hung inside gov't offices during those classes
...did someone already mention Song That (Double Seven), the anniversary of Diem assuming power?
From my personal experience of the overseas community from the 80s to the present, I think the answer about 30 Apr, referred to as Ngay Quoc Han, is the most politically significant holiday when the flag shows up. I'd also add Gio to Hung Vuong as a second, often considered the Ngay Quoc Khanh among overseas VNese, presumably b/c the Nat'l Holiday changed every time there was a regime change during the RVN. All military holidays that are still celebrated are a close third. In general, I remember virtually all holiday celebrations, including Tet, beginning with raising both the US and RVN flag and playing the nat'l anthem. The only place I have ever seen it displayed outside of the Vietnamese community is at the Vietnam War memorial, where I have seen small, handheld US and RVN flags laid at the foot of the memorial.
Hope this helps!
Nu-Anh Tran
Graduate student
UC Berkeley
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From: Vern Weitzel
Date: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Hi Nu-Anh and thanks,
Thanks to everyone for your responses, which appear to operate on at least
three levels: before unification, public demonstration after reunification
(from the experience of US and anh Dien in U'c) and, if I can tease this out,
responses within the overseas Vietnamese community itself.
I am aware that Vietnamese people in Australia and and even now in the US
use symbolism from the RVN in many ways. Newspapers are demonstrably anti-SRV,
in part by flying a colour RVN flag in the banner. Events commonly use yellow
dominant over red themes. And if you eat in a Pho shop, the music undoubtedly
will be old songs and sad Quoc Han ballads. [I don't know about Vietnamese
of Chinese descent, other than that the local Viet-Hoa market prefers up-beat
Chinese songs.]
Am I correct that post-war sensitivities within the community are strong, but
these are not normally shared with outsiders? Obviously there is a traditional culture element. I also am aware of authority from 'old regime leaders', some of
whom manage the plethora of Vietnamese newspapers, have been vocal in
asserting loyalty to the networks of the old regime.
But do other factors also support this hypothesis? How do people feel about
this presumed disjunctive relationship with the wider community? Are their
feelings divided: new country values, old values from the RVN, desire to
return to Viet Nam (whether they sense things are better or worse there now),
older and younger?
This is really outside history, as such, and more of a psychological and post-conflict issue, both overseas and in Viet Nam.
I would like to study professional documents these issues (I do have lots
of practical experience). I would be very pleased to get further direction
and key references. [Gosh, I sound like an undergrad to lazy to visit the
library! Sorry.]
In any case, 2 September is coming up, and I will display the SRV flag on
that day. I'm still not sure when or how is best to display the RVN flag.
But I have a lot more to work with now. Thanks.
Vern
--
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From: Hue-Tam Ho Tai
Date: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:35 PM
If you are in VN, you may be able to hear songs that are "tien chien," that is from the 30s and early 40s, or pop songs from the 60s in the South. Several years ago, Cultural Windows featured some of these songs.
I went to the HCM trail in a tourist van with a group of Australians., back in 1995. As soon as we were on our way, the driver put on a tape of Western pop songs (Bryan Adams?) and 1960s South Vietnamese songs. I often hear songs from the 60s when I am in HCMC.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
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From: Jason Gibbs
Date: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I think it would be worthwhile to check out:
Songs Of the Caged, Songs Of The Free: Music And The Vietnamese Refugee Experience by Adelaida Reyes (published 1999).
Jason Gibbs
San Francisco
Official SFPL use only
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From: Vern Weitzel
Date: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM
To: Hue-Tam Ho Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thanks Hue-Tam, For my part, I could never get away from Abba. It becomes
a torture.
Thanks Jason, I Amazoned the e-book, but I'm not so musical. Prefer dry
academic reading.
As an aside, I asked my wife to look for DVDs of old wartime movies in
Ha Noi. Is there a reliable place to buy there? I don't suppose anyone
keeps online libraries for download or torrent? What I have seen so far
are some personal files, and not very professional.
Thanks again, Vern
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From: Jason Gibbs
Date: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:26 PM
The Reyes book has at least a whiff of stuffiness and academicism.
Ho Guom Audio at 33 Hang Bai occasionally has older movies, but most older titles are not commercially available. There is a government film association in Hanoi that will sometimes make one-off copies of older films for a fee. I'm sorry I don't have any contact information at hand.
Jason
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From: Chung Nguyen
Date: Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:14 AM
I think the popularity of old SVNese songs either in VN or in the
overseas communities has a good reason - they are more related to
genuine human feelings in the face of loss, suffering, and hope, not
just "heroic" struggle for a cause that's no longer operative. These
kinds of songs were suppressed in the North and in the liberated zone
during and right after the war ("nhac vang" or "yellow music"). They are
also related to the socio-political situation - the failure of the party
to bring about changes everybody expected when peace finally came.
I doubt very much that they are related to any wish to bring back the
old SVNese regime, except for a number of militant anti-communist groups
abroad, which still hope VN would collapse the way Eastern Europe did.
A group of Vietnamese adoptees open a website -
"Misplacedbaggage.wordpress.com" which includes a column of reflection
on their own experiences on the war. They are articulate, and certainly
well informed. Considering their personal journey, one would imagine
that they would identify themselves more with SVN. Kevin Minh Allen, one
of the three main bloggers, has, surprisingly, a very interesting
selection -
Notes from A Disintegrating Nation, Part 6 - 1
http://misplacedbaggage.wordpress.com/page/3/
It Was Never About Freedom, Part 8-1
http://misplacedbaggage.wordpress.com/page/2/
CNguyen
UMSASS Boston
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