Buddhas in Viet Namese
From: William Noseworthy <wnosewor@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Hello list!
A quick question about the origin of terms for the Buddha in Viet Namese. I heard a rumor that around the 1st and second century b.c. and perhaps up until the 1st century A.D. the term "Bụt"-was used to refer to the Buddha. However, my Viet Namese teacher has told me that in modern Viet Namese this translates to a "faerie", and that Phật - coming from Han-Viet, refers to the Buddha.
So my question is:
what is the history and usage of the term Bụt?
and likewise for the termPhật?
Cheers!
Billy Noseworthy
B.A. Oberlin College '07
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From: Minh Tran <mtran@csulb.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Sir William,
One may needs to refer to its literary interpretation. This issue of 'But' and 'Phat' had some heated debates on VSG in the past，which would be appropriate for one to direct oneself to the VSG archive. It would improper for me to rehash old quarrel.
Minh Huynh Tran
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From: Hoang NgoHuu <hhoang161@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Dear Billy Noseworthy,
To my knowledge, both "But" and "Phat" come from a Pali word "Buddha". But why could I say so? In order to explain this, let's try to ignore a too great picture of Buddhism history in South Asia and in Vietnam. Just let's simply think that Buddhism at first arrived in Vietnam VIA INDIA itself NOT FROM China in the early 1st century, BC. Therefore, people in Vietnam (called Quan Giao Chi that time belonging to China) transcribed the word BUDDHA DIRECTLY from Indian monks = "BUT"
However in China, due to some different phonological features, Chinese people transcribed BUDDHA = "PHAT" or some sound very like that. And as you know about Vietnamese Budddist history, this religion in Vietnam, gradually, was more and more influenced by China afterwards, for more than thousands of years. So the fact that Vietnamese people affectedly transcribed "Buddha" INDIRECTLY from Chinese people("Phat") was unavoidable. "Ong But", as Vietnamese people call "him", in their mind for a long history, has become a different national fabulous image, who has long and white hair, always appears on time to help poor and miserable people rather than "Phat", a genuine religious image.
In short, "But" comes directly from BUDDHA and "Phat" comes from Chinese transcription of BUDDHA.
Hope it helps.
Sincerely
Hoang Ngo, PhD
Dept of Asian Studies
UT at Austin
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From: Hoang NgoHuu <hhoang161@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Sorry, Billy Noseworthy, I meant "the early 1st AD" instead of BC.
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Minh Tran <mtran@csulb.edu>
date Apr 2, 2008 8:29 PM
subject [Vsg] Buddhas in Viet Nam
Sir William,
On further knowledge of the Chinese version of "Phat," I recommend reading Zenryu Tsukamoto, A History of Early Chinese Buddhism: From its introduction to the Death of Hui-yuan, translated by Leon Hurvitz (Tokyo: Kodansha International, 1985. It actually contains reference to the Han rendition of "Fo" which may have became "Phat."
Minh Huynh Tran
Graduate Student