Ngâm Thơ
From: Vsg [mailto:vsg-bounces@mailman11.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Ngo, Tam
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 8:43 AM
Subject: [Vsg] Ngâm Thõ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Dear list,
Does any know the exact history of Ngâm Thõ, (chanting to reciting a poem)? My search on Vietnamese sources seems to indicate that this practice start only in early 20th century as Ca Tru began to decline. It is a modernized way of performing poetic compositions, especially fitting for the luc bat (6-8 genre). Ngâm Thõ became popular in the North after The Voice of Vietnam developed a program call "Tieng Tho" in which nationalistic and revolutionary poems were performed for the mass. This program continues to be popular today. Most communist poets like their poem to be performed in this genre except, reportedly, for Xuan Dieu.
Any way, I would like to know whether Ngam Tho is yet another product of communist propaganda. If it is, I can use it as any example to illustrate my point about the secularization of sacred practices (chanting an incantation). If it is not, I would be grateful for any information about its history.
Thanks so much for your help,
Tam Ngo
Max Planck Institute for the study of Ethnic and Religious Diversity Goettingen, Germany
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Gibbs, Jason (LIB) <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org> wrote:
I don't think that there is any way to date the origins of ngâm thõ. But I would have to assume that it far pre-dates the 20th century, and perhaps goes as far back in time as poetry has existed. One of the more ubiquitous recitation styles has been known as KięĖu lâŌy - a style of reciting the verses of the Truyęōn KięĖu, often recited as a form of lullaby by nonliterate parents and grandparents to their young children. The reason I assume that poetic recitation pre-dates the 20th century is that very few Vietnamese before that time were literate. Poetic recitation was a common device used to assist in the memorization and presentation of poems and stories. I'm basing this viewpoint from ideas in Father Walter Ong's book Orality and Literacy - that elements of poetic meter and recitation were aids to memorizing large amounts of poetry in pre-literate societies. (According to Ong, this is was a global phenomenon that only waned with the introduction of the printed word and widespread literacy).
Of course, the recitation of poetry in Vietnam is uniquely influenced by the tones of the language. Poetic recitation has also been an essential element of caŌi lýõng theater, and certainly was an element in cheĖo. And of course, you have noted the connection to ca truĖ / haėt aŌ ðaĖo. Ca dao are a folk example of poetic recitation.
The Republic of Vietnam also had many programs of recited poetry. A great deal of it was the thõ tięĖn chięėn written in the easily recited luōc baėt and thõ ðýõĖng forms. But I found a memo from Henry Kissinger to Richard Nixon suggesting the broadcast of sung (I suspect recited) anti-war poetry as a form of psy-war.
http://taybui.blogspot.com/2017/01/tam-ly-chien-cua-kissinger-nam-1972.html
Poetic recitation was an activity that was too mundane to be recorded, so there will not be any documentary evidence to date its origins. I don't think there is anything sacral about it - although of course Buddhist chanting does depend on some of the same approach to language.
I hope this is helpful,
Jason Gibbs
San Francisco
From: Hoang t. Dieu-Hien [mailto:dieuhien@uw.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 11:48 AM
To: Gibbs, Jason (LIB) <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org>
Cc: Ngo, Tam <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>; vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thõ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Dear Tam,
I do not have any scholarly knowledge on the origin of ngâm thơ (nga^m tho+). However, I can confirm Jason Gibbs' point that it flourished under the Republic of Vietnam as well.
I grew up in the South during the war. What I noticed was that what was called ngâm thơ (nga^m tho+) seemed to be done entirely in the northern accent. Southerners do recite poetry in a musical way, though in a somewhat different fashion than what is normally called nga^m tho+. Lullabies sung to infants and young children are a form of poetry recitation, in the local accents with a distinctive local tune and rhythm.
If memory serves me right, John Balaban has an audio recording that he made while traveling in the countryside of southern Vietnam during the 60s. The recording was a collection of ca dao chanting he heard in the rice fields while people were working the fields. It is yet another form of poetry recitation, but it is not called nga^m tho+. Young men and young women working in the fields often flirted by singing aloud lines of poetry back and forth, sometimes from traditional sources, sometimes made up extemporaneously.
John Balaban may have some writing on this topic.
Hope this helps. Thank you for asking the question.
Diệu-Hiền
From: "Gibbs, Jason (LIB)" <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 9, 2017 at 12:14:37 PM PST
To: "Ngo, Tam" <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>, "vsg@u.washington.edu" <vsg@u.washington.edu>
For those interested in knowing what this sounds (and sounded like) here is a recitation of an excerpt from Thúy Kiều dating from around 1931. It includes a photograph of the reciter.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1284563/f1.media
Jason Gibbs
From: "Gibbs, Jason (LIB)" <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thõ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 9, 2017 at 12:18:31 PM PST
To: "Hoang t. Dieu-Hien" <dieuhien@uw.edu>
Cc: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <vsg@u.washington.edu>, "Ngo, Tam" <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>
Sorry for the additional message – here is a recitation of Thúy Kiều from 1900. The artist probably had to recite in an exaggeratedly loud voice for his voice to be picked up by the early acoustic recording equipment.
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/record/2059208/archives_items_3375_.html?q=thuy+kieu
Jason Gibbs
From: Hue-Tam Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thõ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 9, 2017 at 12:49:41 PM PST
To: "Hoang t. Dieu-Hien" <dieuhien@uw.edu>
Cc: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <vsg@u.washington.edu>, "Ngo, Tam" <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>
Here is a clip of Tran van Khe declaiming the poem by Ba Huyen Thanh Quan that got mixed up in the recording Dieu Hien posted. It starts around 7:30.
The clip was for a Tran reunion of 1994.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNDBSIvnz98
Uncle Khe had an invincibly southern accent. He then goes on to declaim in a northern accent.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:29 PM, Hue-Tam Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
Thanks to Dieu Hien for posting this recording,
It sounds as if the performer is mixing up excerpts from the Tale of Kieu and from a poem by Ba Huyen Thanh Quan (Thuong nuoc dau long con quoc quoc...).
As for accents, if I remember, every singer in the south sang with a northern accent. You would never have known from the way Hoang Oanh declaimed poetry that she was born in My Tho. I have a recording somewhere of Tran van Khe (also born in My Tho) declaiming the same passage from the Tale of Kieu (Ngung Bich), but I believe he did so with a southern accent (it was the first recording he made in Paris).
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
From: Diane Fox <dnfox70@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thõ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 9, 2017 at 1:00:36 PM PST
To: "Gibbs, Jason (LIB)" <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sorry for the additional comment, but Phong Nguyen, the ethnomusicologist, would be another good person to ask.
Diane
On Feb 9, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Diane Fox <dnfox70@gmail.com> wrote:
Khuong Cuong, a young (ish) artist at the Ha Noi Conservatory has recorded at least one volume of Ngam Tho — Ca Dao Buon—with Bach Tuyet. When I heard him speak and gam tho a few years ago at Holy Cross, he was very interested in and knowledgeable about the various classical forms. Perhaps he, or someone at the Conservatory, could help.
Diane
Diane Fox
Independent
On 2/13/2017 04:10, Ngo, Tam wrote:
Dear Jason and Dieu Huyen (if I may?)
Dear Co Hue Tam,
Thank you all for your very helpful perspective regarding the history of Ngâm Thơ. While it is impossible to trace the exact history of Ngâm Thơ, it's employment by different political actors after 1945 in North and South Vietnam is interesting. I hope to find more information about that. As for now, my interest in the practice come directly from its recent employment by many spirit medium in Hà Nội, Hải Phòng and Hải Dương who are leading different groups of Ho Chi Minh worshipers. Since the teaching that they received from "Uncle Ho" (via spirit writing or spirit speaking- giáng lời) are often in poetic forms, they made a point of their ability to perform these teaching in styles well known in VOV's Tiếng Thơ program. I have to think further about how Ngâm Thơ related to the sacralization of secular discourses (such as when it was popularly used to transmit mundane communist propaganda) and the secularization of religious forms today. Thank you again for all your help, Best regards, Tam Ngo
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:11 AM, John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu> wrote:
Hi everyone,
What an interesting question. I have also wondered about this myself. The practice of chanting poetry--specifically, "recent-style poetry" 近體詩, which rose to prominence during the Tang Dynasty and is called "Tang poetry" (thơ Đường or Đường thi), and of which "regulated verse 律詩 (usually called "Tang regulated [poetry] in Vietnamese" / Đường luật)--was traditionally "chanted" (吟) since at least the Yuan Dynasty. The term 吟詩 refers to the chanting of exactly this kind of poetry, as opposed to singing "songs" 歌 or "lyrics" 辭. This is most clearly attested in the chanting traditions of regulated poetry in theatrical forms, such as Kun 崑曲, in which lines of poetry are often interspersed with spoken dialogue, but remain distinct from arias. In these lines, the poetry is chanted 吟, in a manner very similar to what we see in modern or post-colonial Vietnamese practices. A variety of this practice is also known, and persists in Japan, also centered on regulated poetry (and there are many beautiful examples on youtube of works by famous Tang poets like Li Bai being chanted by Japanese artists). Since the term 吟詩 is identical to Vietnamese ngâm thơ, it's not implausible that this practice may be dated back quite far.
Happy new year everyone,
John
From: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 13, 2017 at 7:22:50 AM PST
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
ps: while the practice is documented in Yuan and post-Yuan theatrical performance, there are also references to 吟詩 going back to the medieval period, and even to the early medieval period before the rise of regulated poetry. There is a view that this was the de facto manner of consuming poetry (i.e. all forms of 詩) over the medieval period (something resonant with Jason Gibbs' comments), and that this was the context out of which melodic chanting of poetry was included in theatrical genres in the early modern period.
Best, John
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 9:32 AM, Nhan <nhan@temple.edu> wrote:
Dear list,
This is unconventional, but the word 吟 "ngâm" was found in Trang Tử (English not mine):
今子外乎子之神，勞乎子之精，倚樹而吟，據槁梧而瞑。
But now you, Sir, deal with your spirit as if it were something external to you, and subject your vital powers to toil. You sing (your ditties), leaning against a tree; you go to sleep, grasping the stump of a rotten dryandra tree.
cf. http://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&char=%E5%90%9F
Regards,
Ngô Thanh Nhàn
Center for Vietnamese Philosophy, Culture & Society
Temple University
From: Nhan <nhan@temple.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 13, 2017 at 7:33:18 AM PST
To: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thanks, John...
... which led to:
... Mặc dù chuyên lo việc quân, song Phạm Ngũ Lão [1255-1320] vẫn "thích đọc sách, ngâm thơ" (Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư, quyển 4, tờ 38a)...
Best,
Nhàn
From: Quang Van <quang.van@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 15, 2017 at 6:11:58 AM PST
To: John Phan <jdp49@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Thanks to anh Nhàn and John for the confirmation. This reminds me of Lê Hữu Trác's memoir "Thượng Kinh Ký Sự" or Journey to the Captical (Hải Thượng Lãn Ông, 1720-1791). As a common practice, poetry was sung (ngâm) to the flute. Lê Hữu Trác (In Chapter IV) recounted:
Nghĩ ngợi một hồi, bỗng than dài một tiếng, sai tiểu đồng pha trà uống một mình rồi đi nằm. Tôi chợt nghe từ bờ hồ bên kia nổi lên một tiếng trong trẻo, véo von, trong như ve sầu uống hạt móc, dứt dứt nối nối, trắng như hạt móc kết thành sương. Tôi hốt hoảng trở dậy, ra trước sân nghe ngóng, mới biết là ở tây dinh có người thổi sáo. Khi này mối sầu mới gợi thêm mối sầu cũ, nhân ngâm một bài thơ ngắn tả nỗi lòng:
Ngọc địch thanh du du
Thanh tiêu hứng chuyển u
Suy lai thiên lý nguyệt
Tán tác mãn thành thu
Lạc cực thùy gia thú
Tình đa lữ khách sầu
Tiêu tiêu thiên lại phát
Cấm cố xuất tiều phu
Sáo ngọc thanh nghe vẳng
Đêm trong hứng ngẫu nhiên
Thổi về ngàn dặm nguyệt
Tan nhập khắp thành môn
Vui ấy ai người hưởng
Tình này lữ khách buồn
Sáo trời dào dạt thổi
Trống điểm cấm cung đồn
Ngâm xong, tôi tản bộ trước thềm, đêm khuya mới đi nằm, chiêm bao thấy mình ở quê nhà trong núi, mãi đến khi mặt trời chiếu ngang cửa sổ vẫn chưa trở dậy.
ENGLISH TRANSLATION (work in progress):
After reciting, I strolled in front of the veranda. I went to sleep late that night, dreamed that I was at home in the mountains, until the sun was level with the window I still did not get up."
Quang Van
Yale University
From: Diane Fox <dnfox70@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 15, 2017 at 8:17:30 AM PST
To: "Thompson, C. M." <thompsonc2@southernct.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Yes! Wonderful!! Many thanks!!
Diane
(I guess the line about 30 years and being a prisoner of wealth got cut off from the Vietnamese version here?? If it’s easy to do, I’d like to see it too)
On Feb 15, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Thompson, C. M. <thompsonc2@southernct.edu> wrote:
Dear Anh Quang,
Thanks so much for sharing this lovely translation with us. I had forgotten that you were working on Lan Ong!
cheers
Michele
Counting the past thirty years on my fingers, I thought I would never enter the realm of profit and fame, but now I have to resign myself to being a prisoner of wealth? I thought for a while, letting out a few sighs, ordered the servant boy to make tea for me to drink alone, and then went to bed. I suddenly heard a clear sound rising up from the opposite shore of the lake, melodious, clear as a cicada drinking a dewdrop intermittently, transparent like drops of dew linked together to make a veil of mist. I woke up in a panic, went into the yard to listen, realized that to the west of the palace someone was playing a flute. At this moment new sadness evoked old griefs, on this occasion I recited a brief poem to express my innermost feelings:
The brilliant sounds of the jade flute heard faintly from a distance
An unexpected inspiration on a clear night
Floating back from a thousand moons away
Dispersing and reforming all over the citadel
That happiness is enjoyed by someone else
While the heart of this traveler suffers
The wind in the sky blows heavily
As watch drums announce the curfew
Michele Thompson
Professor of Southeast Asian History
Dept. of History
Southern Connecticut State Univ.
From: Leedom Lefferts <lleffert@drew.edu>
Subject: [Vsg] Fwd: Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 15, 2017 at 10:55:20 AM PST
To: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <Vsg@u.washington.edu>
sorry - forgot to send to whole list-serv. LL
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Leedom Lefferts <lleffert@drew.edu>
Date: Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
To: "Marc Gilbert, Ph.D." <mgilbert@hpu.edu>
Want to second Marc's wish for an audio file of the sung poem. It would be so good to hear.
And do you all know that there is a sub-disciple concerned with "sung poetry"? It straddles folklore and music, anthropology, too . . .
Thanks for the e-mail text. Leedom Lefferts
Visiting Scholar
Carolina Asia Center
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Marc Gilbert, Ph.D. <mgilbert@hpu.edu> wrote:
Many thanks for this moment of beauty.
The poem came just in time to incorporate it into a late Valentine's Day card for a Vietnamese colleague: she very much enjoyed it!
Imagine the joy of students who have an instructor who can sing it class! If ever one dares to make an audio file, please share it.
For those VSGers in Hawaii, as Program Chair, I put together the following panel at a Pacific in World History conference Friday and Saturday a the HPU campus center at the Aloha Tower.
The Panel is on for this Saturday at 9:00 am.
Panel 1C Southeast Asia in World History [MPR 1]
Chair, Pierre Asselin, Hawai‘i Pacific University
1. The Making of Penal Penang: The Insular Prisons of Colonial Southeast Asia, 18th and 19th Centuries.
Anand Yang, University of Washington
2. At the Nexus: History & Contemporary Politics among the Indigenous Cham of Vietnam
William Noseworthy, University of Wisconsin, Madison
3. The Global Vietnam War
Pierre Asselin, Hawai‘i Pacific University
Marc
From: Hue-Tam Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Fwd: Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 15, 2017 at 1:15:22 PM PST
To: Leedom Lefferts <lleffert@drew.edu>
Cc: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <Vsg@u.washington.edu>
Since Tam Ngo posted her query about ngam tho's possible derivation from ca tru, I have listened to some performances. The one by the northern "nghe si uu tu" Thanh Hoai clearly shows the influence of ca tru with the use of falsetto.
A clip of Tran van Khe (borrn 1921 in My Tho) shows him declaiming in a more normal tone of voice and a clearly southern accent. Hoang Oanh, born in 1946, also in My Tho, adopted a northern accent but declaimed in a more normal voice, similar to Tran van Khe. By the time she was active, a large influx of norther artists had made the northern accent dominant except in cai luong with its roots in the south.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
From: Dien Nguyen <nguyendien519@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Fwd: Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 16, 2017 at 6:53:55 PM PST
To: Hue-Tam Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Cc: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <Vsg@u.washington.edu>
I recall reading the following verses some time in SaiGon in the mid 1950's :
Gái thì giữ việc trong nhà
Khi vào canh cửi, khi ra thêu thùa
Trai thì đọc sách ngâm thơ
Dùi mài kinh sử để chờ kịp khoa
Mai sau nối được nghiệp nhà
Trước là đẹp mặt sau là ấm thân!
This prescribed the duties of girls and boys in a well-to do scholar gentry family in traditional VietNam, obviously no later than during the Nguyễn period in the 19th century.
Nguyễn Điền
Canberra
From: Hue-Tam Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 17, 2017 at 10:14:16 AM PST
To: Esbjörn Wettermark <ewettermark@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>, "Ngo, Tam" <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>
The poem "Mau tim hoa sim" by Huu Loan was recited by To Kieu Ngan, Ho Diep and Hoang Oanh. Hoang Oanh also sang the song based on the poem. There are two other versions of the song, including one by Pham Duy, called "Sut chi duong ta" which is the penultimate line of the poem.
Although Huu Loan wrote the poem in the North, it was first published in Nhan Van Giai Pham in 1956, and thus may not have been as popular there as in the South.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
Harvard
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Esbjörn Wettermark <ewettermark@gmail.com> wrote:
I've very much enjoyed reading this thread. It might be worth noting that in addition to ca trù, different forms of poetic recitation can be found also in Vietnam's many theatre genres including tuồng/hát bội, chèo and bài chòi. Tuong in particular has a wealth of recitation styles, some also combining song and recitation, and most accompanied by đàn nhị fiddle. I don't know if any comparative studies have been done with regards to theatre and poetry performance in Vietnam, but there are some sources on tuong recitation by for example Nguyen Gia Thien and Mich Quang.
/Esbjörn Wettermark
Royal Holloway, London
From: "Gibbs, Jason (LIB)" <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 19, 2017 at 8:47:04 AM PST
To: Leedom Lefferts <lleffert@drew.edu>, "Ngo, Tam" <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>
Cc: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <vsg@u.washington.edu>
You could explore some of these Youtube sites. The first link will tend towards the style of the Republic of Vietnam, the second toward the style of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ngam+tho+tao+dan
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ngam+tho+dem+khuya
Jason Gibbs
From: Leedom Lefferts [mailto:lleffert@drew.edu]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 10:58 AM
To: Ngo, Tam <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>
Cc: Gibbs, Jason (LIB) <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org>; vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Again I ask - are some audio files available for us to hear this sung poetry? I'm working on a similar project in Northeast Thailand - by monks - singing, not (only)chanting. Would appreciate the opportunity to hear this.
Realize that probably each singer would sing a poem in a different way, but anything at all would be interesting and probably pleasurable.
Thank you,
Leedom Lefferts
Visiting Scholar
Carolina Asia Center
The University of North Carolina
From: Leedom Lefferts <lleffert@drew.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Ngâm Thơ: Since when the Vietnamese recite their poem in singing style?
Date: February 19, 2017 at 9:31:23 AM PST
To: "Gibbs, Jason (LIB)" <Jason.Gibbs@sfpl.org>
Cc: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <vsg@u.washington.edu>, "Ngo, Tam" <Ngo@mmg.mpg.de>
Thank you very much . . . just what I was looking for and didn't know how to find. Leedom Lefferts