Statistics on religions in Vietnam

From: Stephen Denney <sdenney@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Date: Jun 29, 2006 4:31 PM

Subject: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

Would anyone care to comment on these statistics? It is from a book posted

at the website of the Vietnam Communist Party I found a few years ago

(since taken down). I wonder in particular if they might be

underestimating the number of Buddhists in Vietnam.

- Steve Denney

===============

General overview of religions in Vietnam

(According to the summary report and statistics of 1997)

I. Followers:

1. Buddhism 7,620,803

2. Catholicism 5,028,480

3. Evangelism 412,344

4. Cao Dai 1,147,527

5. Hoa Hao 1,306,969

6. Islam 93,294

Total 15,609,417

II. Religious dignitaries and clergy:

1. Buddhism

27,884

Most Venerables (Upadhyaya) 241

Chief nuns 32

Venerables 452

Nuns 331

Bhiksu, Bhiksuni, Novices 26,828

2. Catholicism

14,942

Bishops 33

Priests 2,200

Monks 1.514

(legitimate 1,137;

illegitimate 317)

Nuns 10,647

(legitimate 9,901;

illegitimate 1,556)

Seminarians 548

3. Evangelism

661

Ministers 161

Missionaries 450

4. Different sects of Cao Dai

5,608

5. Islam

734

Total 50,000

III. Places of worship:

1. Buddhism 14,017

2. Catholicism 5,456

3. Evangelism 499

4. Cao Dai 1,037

5. Hoa Hao 196

6. Islam 89

Total 21,294

Source: Government Committee for Religious Affairs

From: Peter Hansen <phansen@ourladys.org.au>

Date: Jun 29, 2006 5:15 PM

Subject: RE: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

Steve, to the best of my memory, those for the Catholic Church

correspond with those published by the Bishops Conference. I'll try to

check this and confirm.

From: Frank Proschan <ProschanF@folklife.si.edu>

Date: Jun 29, 2006 7:33 PM

Subject: Re: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

Steve,

The question would be whether these numbers reflect those who on their civil

identification cards declare themselves to be adherents of a given religion,

or those who so identify to decennial census enumerators, or some other

number. I daresay if one were to examine the ID cards of worshippers at any

religious event, a large proportion would show "khong ton giao" as their

official status. In view of the lack of incentives (and until recently,

several disincentives) for declaring oneself an adherent of any religion,

many devout people have ID cards declaring themselves religion-less. Perhaps

this is less common in rural Catholic villages, for example, where local

authorities know who worships at the church and thus when infants are born

the parents have little fudge factor, but in an urban area people's beliefs

are perhap less well-known to neighbors and authorities. For the decennial

census, the question would be whether there is sufficient public confidence

in the anonymity and integrity of the process that people would declare

themselves to be something other than their identity card shows.

Best,

Frank Proschan

From: Janet Hoskins <jhoskins@usc.edu>

Date: Jun 29, 2006 9:08 PM

Subject: Re: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

On the subject of religion statistics:

As someone who is in contact with leaders of a number of “Vietnamese” religions, I should note that these numbers seem

low, and are considerably lower than other recent estimates. The US State Department report on religion for 2005, for

instance, notes the following (see it yourself at state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51535.htm:

On Buddhism: “Some estimates suggest that more than half of the population is at least nominally Buddhist. The Office of

Religious Affairs uses a much lower estimate of 12 percent (10 million) practicing Buddhists. Buddhists typically visit

pagodas on festival days and have a worldview that is shaped in part by Buddhism, but in reality these beliefs often rely

on a very expansive definition of the faith. Many individuals, especially among the ethnic majority Kinh who may not

consider themselves Buddhist, nonetheless follow traditional Confucian and Taoist practices and often visit Buddhist

temples. One prominent Buddhist official has estimated that approximately 30 percent of Buddhists are devout and

practice their faith regularly.”

On other “Vietnamese religions”:

“Official government statistics put the number of Cao Dai at 2.4 million, although Cao Dai officials routinely claim as

many as 4 million adherents” and “According to the Government, there are 1.6 million Hoa Hao followers; affiliated

expatriate groups estimate that there may be up to 3 million followers”.

I might add that statistics from Aherents.com (which polls religious leaders) put the number of Caodaists at 4-6 million,

and the Vietnamese Embassy web site has also recently listed the number of Cao Dai temples as 1300 (which is a

number that Cao Dai leaders also agree is correct: It is easier to count temples than worshippers).

These numbers, collected in 1997, were collected in the first year that the government granted recognition to Cao Dai

religion (as practiced at Tay Ninh), and before hundreds of temples were re-opened.

Three months ago, the Vietnamese tourism website said that 70% of all Vietnamese people were “influenced by Buddhist

beliefs”. The category of “Buddhists” is a sloppy one, and does not necessarily count primarily Taoist practices of

esoterism (Vo Vi), the Minh religions of southern Vietnam (Minh Ly, Minh Su, etc.), ancestor worship (sometimes called

“Confucianism”), and many other forms of religion which are not generally noted on census cards.

Janet Hoskins

From: Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu>

Date: Jun 30, 2006 8:23 AM

Subject: Re: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

Dear all:

My reaction to these statistics is: what a headache. "Sect" leaders like

to give them, as it can reflect well on their strength. Governments like

to have them, because governments like to count, enumerate, make legible

their subjects. (What I am saying, obviously, is completely derivative

of what others have pointed out.) Such statistics are not useless -- but

it is not clear what they are useful for. The core problem is that

"religions" and "sects" are not understood popularly in Vietnam in the

same way that either the Vietnamese state wants them to be understood or

the way that many Western scholars of religion understand the term.

"Sect" and "religion" imply a bounded, institutionalized entity. Much

Vietnamese religious practice cannot be easily understood in these

terms. (But some can).

The only essay I have seen that starts to address some of these problems

with numbers of believers in Vietnam is that on the Hoa Hao by Pascal

Bourdeaux in Christopher Goscha and Benoit de Treglode, NAISSANCE D'UN

ETAT-PARTI. BIRTH OF A PARTY-STATE. . .

From: Stephen Denney <sdenney@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Date: Jun 30, 2006 9:45 AM

Subject: Re: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

Thanks to Frank and others for the informative responses. A question: is

listing one's religious affiliation on civil identification cards a cause

for discrimination in Vietnam?

- Steve Denney

From: Jean Michaud <michaudjean@yahoo.com>

Date: Jun 30, 2006 11:26 AM

Subject: Re: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

Dear all,

How could be fruitfully factored in this discussion the fact that those

people in VN who do not belong to one of these listed religions, and

yet are not devoid of religious beliefs and practices -- I'm referring

here to the broad category of 'animists' -- still amount to roughly 10

million people but never appear in statistics or official discourse in

VN (in this case a political choice), and barely in academic

discussions such as this one?

Jean Michaud

Laval University

From: Stephen Denney <sdenney@ocf.berkeley.edu>

Date: Jul 2, 2006 11:16 AM

Subject: Re: [Vsg] Statistics on religions in Vietnam

Could the veneration of Ho Chi Minh be considered a religion to some

extent?

- Steve Denney

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