Embedded Files
From: Cau Thai via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 8:01 AM
To: George Black <ghsblack@gmail.com>; VSG <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] From a 30-Year Civil War to Peace for Vietnam
I would like to address a few points in George's comment.
1. While Robert Brigham's book might be a good starting point, in the past 10+ years, new research and scholarly work has challenged previous views on the Vietnam War, such as the great majority of PAVN soldiers were volunteers, they were in high-spirits while ARVN soldiers were not, etc.
2. This might come as a surprise for some members but many friends of mine from Vietnam are CPV members. :-) Despite their political association and my being apolitical, we share a common interest: Trying to do what is best for Vietnam and its people.
Several of us believed that we would face our creator someday. We imagined on the express train to meet Him/Her, we would finally have time to go over our log book of life, with a hope that it contained more positive than negative items. Whether we were the 47th, Nobel laureate or unhoused person made no difference at our destination.
3. I assume being apolitical should not keep us from being critical of the US President, the Congress, or the CPV's leadership for their failed policies and the like. Please correct me if my assumption is off the mark.
Last but not least, I strongly support George's suggestion: to frame helping invalid ARVN soldiers as a shared humanitarian concern. This framing should help move reconciliation forward as the 50th is fast approaching.
Best,
Calvin Thai
Independent
PS: One of my cousins was a PAVN soldier who died in the final years of the war. When we met in Vietnam last year, his sister told me that due to shaming, it was very hard for young adult males in the North not to join the army then.
From: Tom Wilber via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 6:07 PM
To: VSG <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] From a 30-Year Civil War to Peace for Vietnam
Looking ahead to the 50th while considering the wide-ranging effects of the lengthy event, the end of which we will recognize on April 30th, what better way to continue to move reconciliation forward, as George has written.
May I suggest the frame for shared humanitarian concern is wisdom and equanimity.
Tom Wilber
Independent researcher
+1 6074251772
+84 388461730
From: Tan Pham via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 3:02 PM
To: George Black <ghsblack@gmail.com>
Cc: VSG <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] From a 30-Year Civil War to Peace for Vietnam
I agree and fully support your approach:
but it's useful to think of other issues that once seemed intractable, such as the legacy of Agent Orange, where progress has been made by framing them as a shared humanitarian concern rather than a reason for political polemics.
Kind regards,
Tan Pham (NZ)
Author of a book series on Vietnamese history: A Traveller’s Story of Vietnam’s Past.
From: Joe Berry via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 2:09 PM
To: George Black <ghsblack@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] From a 30-Year Civil War to Peace for Vietnam
George’s comments seem completely rational and correct to my thinking anyway.
Joe
______________________
co-author with Helena Worthen, of Power Despite Precarity: strategies for the contingent faculty movement in higher education. Order at <https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745345529/power-despite-precarity>
Paperbacks come with free e-books. Books ship from Chicago. Or order from Labor’s Bookstore at https://www.laborsbookstore.com/collections/all/products/power-despite-precarity-strategies-for-the-contingent-faculty-movement
From: George Black via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 11:50 AM
To: Cau Thai <cvthai75@gmail.com>
Cc: VSG <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] From a 30-Year Civil War to Peace for Vietnam
The material in Robert Brigham's book, ARVN: Life and Death in the South Vietnamese Army might be a useful starting point for framing this debate around the time of the 50th anniversary of the end of the war, in a way that could allow for a constructive dialogue of the kind we've seen on other contentious issues, by presenting it as a purely humanitarian question.
Vietnam has had very little difficulty in making a distinction between American veterans and the policies of their government, and there's now a lot of valuable cooperation, both formal and informal, between veterans on both sides, including the recent USIP-led initiative on recovering and identifying the remains of Vietnamese (PAVN or NLF) war dead. The same thing ought to be possible in principle in the case of rank-and-file ARVN veterans, the great majority of whom were conscripts. As Brigham notes, there was a full mobilization of all males from the ages of 16 to 50, and by 1975 one in six South Vietnamese males were in active military service. Like the Americans who served in Vietnam, most were not fighting out of any deep belief in official policy. On top of that, many ARVN recruits were treated appallingly by their officers and had no opportunities for corruption (recognizing of course that any reconciliation with ARVN officers would be a much bigger challenge).
On many other war legacy issues, the arguments for reconciliation have generally been strengthened by personal testimonies and visuals. When you look at the portraits of lost sons and brothers on Vietnamese family altars, whether North or South, or for that matter at the portraits of VVMF Wall of Faces or American family photo albums, the commonalities are pretty clear. Most were just kids, and victims of forces beyond their control.
Maybe this sounds naive or sentimental, but it's useful to think of other issues that once seemed intractable, such as the legacy of Agent Orange, where progress has been made by framing them as a shared humanitarian concern rather than a reason for political polemics.
646-361-3931
@georgehsblack
The Long Reckoning: A Story of War, Peace, and Redemption in Vietnam
(Knopf, 2023) - a New York Times Book Review Editors' Choice
From: Cau Thai via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 10:03 AM
To: VSG <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] From a 30-Year Civil War to Peace for Vietnam
Thank you all for your comments, on-list and off-list.
After the 30-year civil war that caused the death of millions of people, national reconciliation was desperately needed to heal the war wounds and move the country forward.
Many Vietnamese in the South (intellectuals, professionals, entrepreneurs, etc.) chose to stay behind in 1975 to help rebuild Vietnam. What happened to their aspirations was known decades later, as reflected in Huy Đức's "Bên Thắng Cuộc" (below) and in other people's accounts:
"Sau giải phóng, Bí thư Thứ nhất Lê Duẩn vào Sài Gòn, sau khi nghe Mai Chí Thọ, Trần Trọng Tân báo cáo tình hình, ông nói: “Nãy giờ có một chiến lợi phẩm rất lớn mà các đồng chí không đề cập, đó là lực lượng trí thức được đào tạo từ nhiều nguồn. Lenin nói, không có trí thức là không có xã hội chủ nghĩa.” Tuy nhiên, theo ông Huỳnh Kim Báu, cách mà chính quyền sử dụng trí thức chủ yếu là “làm kiểng” [just for show]..."
Facing distrust and suspicion from the new government, and having relatives and friends sent to the re-education camps or to the New Economic Zones left them with no other choice but to escape by boat.
Some cases ended tragically:
"Đích thân ông Kiệt cũng nhiều lần đến các trại giam để bảo lãnh các trí thức. Theo ông Phạm Văn Hùng và Nguyễn Văn Huấn, hai người giúp việc thời đó của ông, hình thức “xử lý” đối với những trí thức vượt biên của “Anh Sáu Dân” là kêu tụi tôi đích thân đi làm lại hộ khẩu và sổ gạo cho họ. Nhưng phần lớn các trí thức đã ra đi lặng lẽ. Giáo sư Châu Tâm Luân kể: “Tôi đi tất cả sáu lần. Lần bị giữ lâu nhất là ở Rạch Giá, cả tháng trời. Nhưng tôi không khai mình là ai. Như bốn lần trước, ở nhà cứ lo một cây vàng thì được thả.
Có những người không chịu nhờ Thành ủy, hoặc “lo” bằng vàng. Theo ông Huỳnh Kim Báu, khi vượt biên bị bắt, Giáo sư Lê Thước đã tự sát.”
Fast forward to the present:
Attached are two Decrees, issued in 2021 and 2023 respectively, for social benefits provided to invalid PAVN/NLF soldiers (thương binh). In a sample case, for invalid soldiers with 40% disability rating, their monthly benefit changed from 2,082,000 VNĐ to 2,635,000 VNĐ, or a 26-percent increase in a period of two years. As cited in the previous post, there will be a new benefit increase starting in July 2024. The invalid soldiers from the "winning side" are ensured to "have a living standard equal to or higher than the average living standard of local people."
However, on one hand, the authority has not provided any assistance to invalid ARVN soldiers, on the other hand, their local public security officials recently put pressure on church volunteers not to deliver donated gifts to them. Invalid ARVN soldiers are in their 70s or 80s, many in poor health. According to my source, some of them passed away shortly after receiving donated gifts last year.
As mentioned in the article below, in 2004, the Politburo enacted Resolution 36 on overseas Vietnamese. In the past 20 years, the government has opened their arms to millions of people, a majority of whom left Vietnam after the fall of Saigon, for their money and expertise:
"Chính sách hòa hợp, hòa giải của Đảng và Nhà nước dựa trên lợi ích cốt lõi của quốc gia, dân tộc là Tổ quốc độc lập, thống nhất, giàu mạnh, lãnh thổ toàn vẹn, nhân dân làm chủ, đoàn kết gắn bó máu thịt giữa hơn 98 triệu người trong nước với hơn 5 triệu người Việt ở nước ngoài."
https://www.vietnamplus.vn/47-nam-thong-nhat-dat-nuoc-hoa-hop-hoa-giai-va-loi-ich-dan-toc-post787163.vnp
Meanwhile, evidence shows that the authority has continued discrimination against invalid ARVN soldiers who were on the same side with millions of overseas Vietnamese during the war and who are in the final years of life in their home country. By doing so, they have clearly demonstrated that their words on "chính sách hòa hợp, hòa giải của Đảng và Nhà nước" are not in good faith.
With less than 12 months from the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam War's end, is it long overdue for the Vietnamese government to be held accountable for their actions or a lack of action on national reconciliation?
As François suggested, should we start a debate on this question and others on this forum?
If not now, then when could it be?
Best,
Calvin Thai
Independent
PS: During my trip to Thành cổ Quảng Trị last year, I had lunch with veterans from both sides. I felt their pain when they talked about friends who did not return from the war.
On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 12:22 AM François Guillemot <francois.guillemot@ens-lyon.fr> wrote:
Dear Calvin,
Thank you for sharing. This is an important question and debate. Reading these articles, this political regime continues to deny national reconciliation on an equal footing between "the vinners and the vanquished", between the privileged and the excluded.
Thank you for recalling these precious words by Trinh Cong Son, which I recently highlighted in a book chapter:
GUILLEMOT, François, « Viêt-Nam, de la guerre du peuple à la guerre civile révolutionnaire : pratiques polémologiques », in Anne Cheng & Henry Laurens (dir.), La violence politique vue par les historiens du Moyen- et de l’Extrême-Orient, Paris, Hémisphères, 2023, p. 137-197. ("Vietnam, from the people's war to the revolutionary civil war: polemological practices”, in Anne Cheng & Henry Laurens (dir.), Political violence seen by historians of the Middle and Far East, Paris, Hémisphères, 2023, p. 137-197.
To complete your message, see the public security's pressures after singing the song "Gia tài của mẹ" in 2022:
Best
FG
Le 30/04/2024 à 03:35, Cau Thai via Vsg a écrit :
Dear List,
In 1965, Trịnh Công Sơn used the term "nội chiến" in his song, "Gia tài của mẹ":
"Một ngàn năm nô lệ giặc Tàu
Một trăm năm đô hộ giặc Tây
Hai mươi năm nội chiến từng ngày
Gia tài của mẹ, để lại cho con
Gia tài của mẹ, là nước Việt buồn"
In 2022, during her tour in Vietnam, Khánh Ly was given a warning after singing the song.
Recently, church volunteers who helped hand out donated gifts to invalid ARVN soldiers in the Vietnam War have been under local public security's pressures to stop their humanitarian efforts:
“Đặc biệt năm nay chương trình nhận được sự ‘quan tâm rất đặc biệt’ của an ninh. Từ các linh mục đến các thiện nguyện viên, đều bị an ninh mời làm việc. Các thiện nguyện viên gặp nhiều áp lực, nhiều lần bị an ninh câu lưu khi đi trao quà, và hầu hết bị buộc phải cam kết không được tiếp tục tham gia.”
https://www.rfa.org/vietnamese/in_depth/program-thanking-invalid-soldiers-of-southern-vietnam-army-suspended-04182024083532.html
Meanwhile, the government has again, since last July, increased social benefits for invalid soldiers and others from their side in the war:
"Đồng chí Trương Đăng Bình - Chủ tịch Công đoàn Trung tâm Điều dưỡng thương binh Thuận Thành (tỉnh Bắc Ninh) cho biết, hiện Trung tâm chưa nhận được văn bản hướng dẫn cụ thể, chi tiết liên quan đến việc tăng chế độ phụ cấp cho người có công với cách mạng. Tuy nhiên, từ trước đến nay, chủ trương xuyên suốt của Đảng và Nhà nước là những người có công với cách mạng có mức sống bằng và cao hơn mức sống trung bình của những người ở địa phương."
"Trợ cấp cho người có công với cách mạng sẽ tăng từ 1/7/2024"
https://laodongcongdoan.vn/tro-cap-cho-nguoi-co-cong-voi-cach-mang-se-tang-tu-172024-103753.html
The government has also continued to open their arms to former foes from afar:
"Vì một Việt Nam hòa bình: Lấy nghệ thuật xóa hận thù"
https://thanhnien.vn/vi-mot-viet-nam-hoa-binh-lay-nghe-thuat-xoa-han-thu-185240423163933606.htm
https://vietnamnet.vn/cuu-binh-my-cam-dong-truoc-cau-noi-chao-mung-cac-ong-den-viet-nam-2101581.html
Many people have called the time after April 30th, 1975, "peace-time" era.
The fact is hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese with ties to the RVN government or categorized as "tư sản mại bản", "thành phần phản động" were subjected to persecution and mistreatment for years after the war.
Tens of thousands of Vietnamese died from their ordeal after being sent to re-education camps without formal charges or trials. More than 200,000 Vietnamese perished at sea.
(Huy Đức. "Bên Thắng Cuộc." 2012. Nghia M. Vo. "The Vietnamese Boat People, 1954 and 1975-1992." 2005.)
A continuing lack of respect for human rights and the rule of law until the present day has raised the question whether peace returned after a 30-year Civil War:
"Ngo Thi To Nhien, the director of an energy think tank, was the sixth environmental campaigner to be detained in the past two years."
"Vietnam Relied on Environmentalists to Secure Billions. Then It Jailed Them."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/28/world/asia/vietnam-cop28-environment.html
According to the UN officials, "Peace means dignity, well-being for all, not just absence of war."
In other words, there is no peace for the country until those in power make peace with their brothers and sisters, make peace with all Vietnamese.
Calvin Thai
Independent
PS: Attachment #1 is the cited article about the invalid ARVN soldiers for members with the "access" issue. Attachment #2 is a photo taken during my 2023 visit to pay respect to the fallen soldiers at Cổ thành Quảng Trị. Regardless of which side the fallen soldiers belonged to, PAVN, NLF or ARVN, they were Vietnamese.
Page updated
Report abuse