Vietnamese flag

From: "Bertrand de Hartingh" <hartingh@hn.vnn.vn>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Vietnamese flag

Martin,

The red flag with the yellow star became the Vietnamese official flag the 5th September 1945 (decree nB05 of the Provisory Government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, signed by Vo Nguyen giap as President at interim - at that time Ho Chi Minh was in France), the red colour symbolising "the spirit of sacrifice of the revolutionary struggle of the Vietnamese people", and the yellow star "the leading role of the revolution". The National Assembly endorsed it in November 1946 and again the 25th September 1955, the only change being the drawing of the star which became what it is today, "as everybody draws it like this now and as it appeared like that since 1940 in the South" (Hoang Minh Giam dixit).

Sources : decree nB05 : file A-QOI, Hoi dong Chinh Phu

National Assembly file nB012 and file nB014

No classes involved therefore. Furthermore at that time only two classes (giai cap) were officially recognised: workers and landowners, all the other categories of citizens being "tang lop" (I do not know the English translation : in French one speaks of "couches sociales").

Best

Bertrand

From: Adam Fforde <msefaj@nus.edu.sg>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: RE: Vietnamese flag

In old Marxist-speak, there was the word 'stratum' for things that were not classes in doctrinal terms, and so that is what 'tang lop' may be translated by, taking into account anti-positivist posturing and the importance of understanding that terms are socially constructed, embedded in time, context, space and all those other categories Kant thought would help show his manservant that God really did exist, so don't worry.

Adam Fforde

From: David Marr <dgm405@coombs.anu.edu.au>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Vietnamese flag

There is something confusing about the first date below. Ho Chi Minh was not in France until the summer of 1946. If Vo Nguyen Giap signed the decree on 5-9-45, it would have been as Minister of Interior, which he did with a whole series of decrees in early September.

The shape of the star did not standardize for a couple of years, but well before 1955, I think.

David Marr

From: Sinh Vinh <sinh.vinh@ualberta.ca>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Vietnamese flag

In the article "Tac gia quoc ca gap tac gia quoc ky" (The author of the national anthem met the designer of the national flag) of his book Hoa ra^m bu.t (The Hibiscus) (Hanoi: Nxb Thanh Nien, 1998), Son Tung gave an interesting acount of the history of Co-do-sao-vang.

According to Son Tung, in 1940 when arriving in Hoa Nam (Southern China) Ho Chi Minh heard of the news of the outbreak of Nam Ky Khoi nghia and the appearance of Co-do-sao-vang in the uprising, HCM bought the materials to produce a red flag with 5 yellow stars in the middle. The flag was brought back to VN and was hoisted in Pac Bo on May 19, 1941 "to mark the birth of the Vietminh". This flag was hoisted again on Dec. 22, 1944 when Vo Nguyen Giap declared the birth of the Viet Nam Tuyen truyen Giai phong quan in Sam Cao, Cao Bang province. At the Tan Trao congress in Tuyen Quang province (Aug. 18, 1945), HCM then "proposed the adoption of "Tien quan ca" as VN's national anthem and co-do-sao-vang as its national flag, "and the proposal was solemnly adopted by the Congress".

The original designer of co-do-sao-vang used in the Nam Ky uprising, according to Son Tung, was Nguyen Huu Tien (also known as Truong Xuan Chinh, Giao Hoai, Hai Bac Ky, Hai Ky Su, etc.), a native of Lung Xuyen, Nam Ha province in the North. Though Van Cao, the author of Tien Quan Ca, did not meet Nguyen Huu Tien in person, he did try to visit Lung Xuyen, the latter's home village. Van Cao afterward drew a portrait of Nguyen Huu Tien. This apparently was a spiritual meeting between the two.

If the above account can be trusted, the shape of the stars -- as David Marr suggested -- must have been modified later.

It is also worth noting that at the birth of the Viet Nam Quang phuc Hoi (Vietnam Restoration league) in 1912, Phan Boi Chau and his colleagues also had a national flag designed. PBC later on observed: "It is indeed strange that until then, our country had had only a banner for the emperors, but no national flag". In the QPH flag, the 5 stars were joined together in the form of a cluster of pearls (ngu-tinh lien-chau), with red stars on a yellow ground. With respect to the significance of number 5, PBC explained: "As our country consisted of 5 large sectors (dai-bo), this design was to symbolize the idea that these five large sectors are connected and unified". Has the interpretation of number 5 occurred only once since 1912, or more than that?

VINH Sinh

From: "Bertrand de Hartingh" <hartingh@hn.vnn.vn>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Vietnamese flag

David,

Yes, once again, you are right. Ho Chi Minh was not in France at that time. Nevertheless, and for reasons I will try to find, it is Giap who signed the decree as "president at interim" and not as Minister of Interior.

The standardisation of the star was indeed recognised by the Government and the National Assembly when the last one debated and voted on that matter, the 20th of September 1955. But the vote that recognised that standardisation took place that day, not before.

From: Sinh Vinh <sinh.vinh@ualberta.ca>

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Vietnamese flag

There is another piece of information on the history of co-do-sao-vang which by and large corresponds to Son Tung's account of the history of co-do-sao-vang:

The entry on "Kokki" (National Flag) by Le Huy (trans. into Japanese by Washigashira Koyumi) in SAKURAI Yumio and MOMOKI Shiro^. eds., Betonamu no jiten (Dictionary on Vietnam) (Tokyo: Do^ho^sha, 1999), reads:

- The national flag of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (SRV) has a red ground with a a yellow star at the center (commonly called co-sao-vang or co-do-sao-vang). Used for first time in the Nam Ky Uprising in 1940, this flag was designed by Nguyen Huu Tie^'n, a native of Ha Nam province who joined the Nam Ky Uprising following his escape from Con Dao island. At President Ho Chi Minh's proposal, this flag was adopted as national flag at the Tan Trao People's Congress on Aug. 16, 1945, and was recognized at the Congress of a unified Vietnam in 1976 as the national flag of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. (p. 144)

Doan Them, a high official in the former South Vietnamese (Republic of VN) government, also testifies in his book that in Hanoi on Aug. 19, 1945, "Giai-phong militia [dan-quan] holding co-do-sao-vang appeared at various places and occupied public institutions" (See Doan Them, 1945-1965: Viec tung ngay; Reprinted by Xuan-Thu, n.d., p. 11).

For further information on Nguyen Huu Tien, see Son Tung, Nguyen Huu Tien: Nguoi ve co to quoc (1981); and the entry on Nguyen Huu Tien III in Nguyen Q. Thang and Nguyen Ba The, eds. Tu dien nhan vat lich su Viet Nam (Nxb Khoa hoc xa hoi, 1992), p. 555. The latter account does not mention Nguyen Huu Tien as the first designer of co-so-sao-vang, but emphasizes his revolutionary career and the fact that he was arrested at the same time with Nguyen Thi Minh Khai on July 30, 1940 and was executed on May 12, 1941.

VINH Sinh

To: "Vietnam Studies Group" <vsg@u.washington.edu>

Subject: Re: Vietnamese national flag

In-Reply-To: <l03130307b5618c5063ef@[130.235.148.234]>

Martin

That the five points of the star on the Vietnamese flag stand for the five classes seems very likely, in as much as that is the significance of the stars on the PRC flag. Or, some suggest that, at least in the case of the Chinese flag, the stars stand for the five nationalities, which is a possibility. More than likely it's the different "classes," however.

Will Pore