Tran Nhan Tong
From: Alec Soucy
Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:44 PM
To: "vsg@u.washington.edu" <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Colleagues,
Does anyone know if there is a monument of Tran Nhan Tong, a temple dedicated to him or other kinds of memorialisations to him anywhere in or near Hanoi?
Thanks,
Alec Soucy
Saint Mary's University
Halifax
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From: Andrew Wells-Dang
Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:54 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Alec, if memory serves, Tran Nhan Tong is one of the three kings commemorated with a statue and a ban tho on the second floor of the (reconstructed) Quoc Tu Giam building at the back of the Temple of Learning (aka "Literature").
He also has a street named after him, going by the main entrance to Reunification Park.
Regards, Andrew
Andrew Wells-Dang
Civil society and governance consultant
Hoi An
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:56 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
In Hue, people lamented to me that there wasn't even a street named after him, while a whole park was dedicated to Huyen Tran.
Hue Tam Ho Tai
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From: Phan Thanh Hai
Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 8:22 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Alec,
In Hue, the shrine of Emperor Tran Nhan Tong is in Ngu Phong mountain, near the shrine of princess Huyen Tran. In this shrine there is a 2 tons bronze statute of him. The street Tran Nhan Tong is located in Truong An district (near Truong An market).
Hai
Dr.Phan Thanh Hai
Deputy Director of Hue Monuments Consevation Centre
23 Tong Duy Tan St., Hue City, Vietnam
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 8:42 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Thanh Hai,
Thanks for correcting the erroneous information I was given a couple of years ago-- that was the time I also met you! I'm glad Tran Nhan Tong is not forgotten.
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From: Melanie Beresford
Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:23 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
In Hanoi, Tran Nhan Tong street runs along the northern edge of Unification Park. It is quite a large, busy street.
Melanie
Melanie Beresford
Associate Dean Research, Associate Professor in Economics
Faculty of Business & Economics
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia
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From: Alec Soucy
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:52 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thank you all for your help regarding monuments to Tran Nhan Tong. I know Tran Nhan Tong St. in Hanoi (I should have mentioned it).
Anyone have anything to add for Ho Chi Minh City?
Thanks,
Alec
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From: Phan Thanh Hai
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:54 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
In Ho Chi Minh city, Tran Nhan Tong St in district 10 (Quan 10), Alec.
I think most of the cities in VN have Tran Nhan Tong St.
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From: Alec Soucy
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 6:48 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thanks. I knew that streets have been named after him all over Vietnam. I was wondering more about monuments. It seems that Tran Hung Dao overshadows Tran Nhan Tong in public monuments and cults - am I wrong about this?
Cheers,
Alec
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From: Phan Thanh Hai
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:09 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I think you are right. But now it is some change. And some monuments of Tran Nhan Tong were built in some provinces in Vietnam, like Hanoi, Quang Ninh, Hue...
Best,
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 7:14 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Tran Hung Dao is the patron saint of the Vietnamese navy (and was as well of the South Vietnamese navy); the patron saint of soothsayers, the symbol of northern immigrants to the south, a supposed healer, etc... as a result of which, he is worshipped everywhere, but especially in the north (see Pham Quynh Phuong on this).
I'd be interested in any commemoration of Tran Thai Tong, whose Khoa Hu Luc is an important milestone in Vietnamese Buddhism.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
Kenneth T. Young Professor
of Sino-Vietnamese History
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From: liem vu duc
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 8:39 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Alec,
You have touched upon very interesting aspect of Vietnamese culture and society relating to use the image of historical figures as instruments to characterize a certain historical age.
What do I mean by that? The idea would go beyond Tran Nhan Tong, Tran Hung Dao and so on. Vietnamese are quite pragmatic in recalling the heroic parts of history to serve their contemporary purpose. [well, it is widely seen at any corner of the world].
If we take a look back the historical narrative of the wartime, the core of history is military hero, notably Ngô Quy?n, Lý Thu?ng Ki?t, Tr?n Hung Ð?o, Lê L?i, Quang Trung. Those "winners" military figures were offered special positions in historical textbooks and researches. On the other hand, those "losers" military figures such as H? Quý Ly was unilaterally condemned. As a result, military history had an overwhelming influence and left no room for other, such as economic history, arts history.
This phenomenon has been significantly changed during the last three decades following the changes in social, economic and political landscape in Vietnam. More scholarly attentions have been paid to cultural historical figures as well as economic and arts history. Also, there were several calls among academic community for changing structure of historical textbooks with more body of knowledge related to culture, arts, economics, rather than 80%-90% of those belongs to political and military history.
Changes have made during the last ten years, that is why you can see more statues Tr?n Nhân Tông, more streets are maned by poets, writers, and more conferences and publishes on Li?u H?nh, Chu Van An, Lê Van Th?nh, Tr?n Nhân Tông, Trúc Lâm Tam T?, H? Nguyên Tr?ng, Nguy?n Trãi, M?c Ðang Dung, Bùi Huy Bích, Nguy?n Du, Phan Thanh Gi?n, Cao Xuân D?c, Ph?m Th?n Du?t.
In addition, Tr?n Nhân Tông with Pháp Loa, and Huy?n Quang is considered as Trúc Lâm Tam T?, the first three masters who established the Vietnamese school of Buddhism, Trúc Lâm [Bamboo forest]. The complex temples and Buddhist monastery where Tran Nhan Tong practiced in the 13th century now plans to extend to 10,000 ha with the investment of 700 billion VND or US $35 million. according to the Quang Ninh Province's tourist report, during the first week of last new year celebration, 150,000 people visited this complex temples and monastery. It shows that Tran Nhan Tong is becoming popular now as A RELIGIOUS LEADER of A VIETNAMESE BUDDHIST SCHOOL.
Best regards,
==========
VU DUC LIEM
Southeast Asian Studies Center,
Graduate School, Chulalongkorn University,
Witthayakit Building (Siam Square), 13th Floor
Patumwan, Bangkok 10330, THAILAND
Tell: (66-2) 858382421
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From: Mike High
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:59 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Alec,
With respect to your question about monuments.....for a variety of reasons, Tr?n Hung Ð?o seems to excite the imagination more than the benevolent emperor of his time, Tr?n Nhân Tông. (Maybe for the same reason that Siva Inevitably seems to trump Vishnu in the realm of worship.)
In relatively recent times, Tr?n Hung Ð?o has evolved Into a universally potent spiritual figure, so his likeness can be found not just In his fief at Ki?p B?c, but In temples throughout the north and center, especially as a guardian/saint of the Three Palaces / Four Palaces of the Holy Mothers. The worship of the Holy Mothers is associated with trance ceremonies, and “fortune telling,” and has been viewed with great suspicion by the government until recently. However, the government has promoted the secular Image of Tr?n Hung Ð?o as a symbol of heroism and loyalty, so one also sees those Imposing modern statues pointing out to the sea throughout the north and south. (This reminds me a great deal of the dual role served by Quan Công, also a warrior-hero, a subversive cult figure In Hoa Ki?u secret societies, and an imperially-honored deity in both China and Vietnam.)
As far as Thang Long is concerned, it was not traditionally the place of worship for emperors, except for the temples within the royal citadel itself. Most of the emperors are venerated in their respective “homelands,” such as Lam Son where the Lê emperors were buried and the most sacred rites were held. The same for the Tr?n emperors, although their ancestral temple Is located not In their place of origin (Nam Ð?nh) but their place of retirement, near the sacred mountain of Yên T?.
The central and southern regions of Vietnam have many traditions of “ladies of the realm,” so Huy?n Trân In Hu? might be seen as the “first founder” in the land of Champa, even though her stay there was very brief and the region was not settled by Kinh until much later. (Particularly in the south, the ladies of the realm are most prominent, so I wouldn’t be surprised If her father, Tr?n Nhân Tông, takes second billing.)
The government seems to be expending a fair amount of money on “reconstructing” and enlarging some of the sites associated with early Buddhist emperors, such as the Ph?t Tích pagoda and the Trúc Lâm pagodas on Yên T?. I have not seen the results, but If these improvements are anything like some of the standardized concrete temple buildings that are being poured out throughout the north, It will be a great shame.
:: Mike High
????
Great Falls, VA
USA
PS. On a side note, the three emperors occupying the second floor of the modern museum at the Van Mi?u (fifth courtyard) are Lý Thánh Tông (honored for founding or renovating the temple to Confucius on this site), Lý Nhân Tông (credited with establishing the first “university’; though it is more likely that the school was established to tutor the boy-emperor), and Lê Thành Tông (who began the practice of erecting stele to commemorate successful scholars). I don’t think that this triad was Included In the original pantheon at the Van Mi?u; it probably represents a modern historical conception.
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:29 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
The statue of Tran Hung Dao in Saigon/HCMC was built much before 1975. As I noted earlier, he was the patron-saint of the South Vietnamese navy. The temple to Tran Hung Dao was erected by Hoi Tuong Te Bac Ky in 1929.
For more on Tran Hung Dao and the various sites and cults associated with him, see Pham Quynh Phuong, Hero and Deity: Tran Hung Dao and the Resurgence of Popular Religion in Vietnam.
Vietnamese history books portray Tran Nhan Tong as vacillating over whether to fight or surrender to the Mongols in 1282. Tran hung Dao is supposed to have stiffened his spine. The Hich Tuong Si was similarly aimed at members of the royal clans (who were many of the generals and officers of Tran times), and the Dien Hong conference (about which there is no actual evidence) is supposed to have reinforced the king's will by proclaiming the popular desire to fight. In other words, in the context of the history of Vietnamese resistance to the Mongol invasions, Tran Nhan Tong does not cut a heroic figure!
It should be noted that during the Cultural Revolution (1958-960) many statues of Tran Hung Dao were destroyed because they symbolized his role as the patron-saint of fortune-tellers. His cult, however, goes unabated and he has recently become the patron saint of office-seekers and exam candidates. His temple in Nam Dinh was the site of a major influx of pilgrims last January (estimated at around 70,000) and local officials have been debating ever since how to control the flow come next January in order to prevent people from being trampled. When I visited the temple in Nam Dinh in May, there were quite a few worshippers asking for Saint Tran's support on behalf of their children in the upcoming school exams.
Mike is correct in seeing the naming of streets after Tran Nhan Tong as a sign of the general revival of Buddhism. I understand that the Huyen Tran park in Hue is not a state project, although the person behind it, owner of a chain of hotels, has close ties with local officials. I suppose it's necessary for success.
Two or three years ago, I attended a major conference on Buddhism at the Tu Dam pagoda. Representatives of the provincial CP were well represented in the front rows.
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From: Melanie Beresford
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:26 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
How true. I was struck by the fact that Nguyen Du was the only literary figure with a street in Hanoi back in the early 1990s (that I was aware of anyway). Maybe there are others now?
Melanie
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From: Kim Ngoc Minh
Date: Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 7:04 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Alec,
As the founder of the Vietnamese Zen tradition, known as Trúc Lâm (Bamboo Grove), Tran Nhan Tong has been memorialized in a numbers of Truc Lam Zen Monasteries. In or near Hanoi, you can go to Sung Phuc Pagoda (Hanoi); Tay Thien Pagoda (Vinh Phuc) and Truc Lam Yen Tu Pagoda (Quang Ninh).
You can see the statue of Truc Lam Dau Da (King Tran Nhan Tong - the First Patriarch) among the other Patriarchs' there.
More info:
English:
http://www.truclamvietzen.net/Monasteries.htm
http://www.truclamvietzen.net/ZenFounders.htm
Vietnamese:
http://www.thuong-chieu.org/uni/CacThienVien/CacThienVien.htm
http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thi%E1%BB%81n_vi%E1%BB%87n_Tr%C3%BAc_L%C3%A2m_T%C3%A2y_Thi%C3%AAn
http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thi%E1%BB%81n_vi%E1%BB%87n_Tr%C3%BAc_L%C3%A2m_Y%C3%AAn_T%E1%BB%AD
Best,
Minh Kim.
--
Minh Kim
Postgraduate Student
Gifted Education
University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia.
My educational blog: www.1vietnamedu.com
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From: Mike High
Date: Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 9:12 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I’m surprised to learn that Tr?n Hung Ð?o statue predates 1975, but only because Its style resembles the public statues of Lê L?i In Thanh Hóa and Quang Trung In Vinh.
Googling around, It appears that the famous statue In Saigon was cast In 1960. But I believe It stands on the base of the statue of the Trung sisters, which was torn down In 1963. I wonder If Ithe statue of Tr?n Hung Ð?o was displayed somewhere else and moved to the waterfront after 1963, or If he was the original occupant of that pedestal, temporarily displaced by the Trung sisters project?
It doesn’t surprise me that the Republic of Vietnam would adopt Tr?n Hung Ð?o as a heroic symbol, for the same reasons that the SRV makes exceptions for him. (Pham Quynh Phuong notes that shrines to Tr?n Hung Ð?o were often spared by “enthusiastic revolutionary cadres,” as long as he was not worshipped as a spirit.) And It makes sense to have Tr?n Hung Ð?o near the B?ch D?ng shipyard If he was the patron-saint of the RVN navy, though some of my younger Saigonese friends think of him In post-1975 terms and find It Ironic that he appears to be pointing people to the sea.
I was able to attend the festival at Ki?p B?c last year, and the highlight was an elaborate Buddhist ceremony. I was only able to shoot video at a distance, because the seats with a direct view of the performance were reserved for officials and their families and friends. But I did catch a glimpse of the intricately choreographed c?u siêu performance:
http://www.youtube.com/yersinUSA
It makes me wonder whether this is a common kind of performance at the larger Buddhist pagodas, or a kind of court ceremony where official patronage is involved.
I am a bit charmed by the stories of Tr?n Nhân Tông, as I try to fathom the contradictions of Buddhist kings and emperors who go to war. (Buddhist emperors including Genghis and Kublai Khan.) It may have just been a rhetorical act (or a rhetorical fiction), but I find It reassuring that the ruler posed the question of whether to go to war, understanding full well the suffering that it would cause his people. If It weren’t for that evidence of compassion on the eve of war, It would be harder for me to appreciate his subsequent journey to Champa and his retreat to Yên T?.
Tr?n Nhân Tông enjoys a great reputation among Buddhist scholars, with a substantial dose of hagiography. I’m not sure he will translate as well into the public realm as a “state deity.” Which is probably all for the good. Government patronage with respect to Buddhism is bound to be problematic—it gives an ironic and unpleasant twist to the phrase “engaged Buddhism.” State patronage compromises the ideals of modern Buddhism, and not just in the socio-political realm. I suspect that it has a lot to do with the soulless monumentalism of many contemporary Buddhist projects—e.g., who has the biggest bronze Buddha or the largest collection of arhat statues.
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 9:47 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I can't remember how the statue like exactly in the 1960s, but I believe it is probably the same.
If any imitation took place, it's probably by northerners, as part of the resurgence of tradition and the commemorative fever I once wrote about. i don,t think it stands on the base of the Trung sisters statue, but I could be wrong. By the way, I am old enough to think in pre-1975 terms, especially since I left in 1966!
I was once told by a historian that cultural reform cadres had difficulty figuring out whether THD was worshipped as a hero (good) or patron of fortune-tellers (bad). At any rate, many delegated th task of smashing idols to poor peasants in exchange of payment, not wanting to incur the wrath of deities. When the latter subsequently met with misfortune, fellow villagers pointed to their previous iconoclasm as the cause, rather than to thir extreme poverty
Different sites seem to be dedicated to different purposes. The Nam Dinh temple is frequented by people in search of success --in exams, in bureaucratic careers. The one in Kiep Bac seems to attract people in search of healing as well as people on their way to Mt Yen Tu (Dao The Duc, Ph.d. dissertation).
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From: Dien Nguyen
Date: Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 2:53 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Hello Melanie,
I don't have a pre-1990 map of HaNoi handy but from memory I can think
of a number of streets named after literary figures: Le Van Huu, Han
Thuyen (these streets continue on from Nguyen Du), Ngo Si Lien, Nguyen
Khuyen, Cao Ba Quat, Ngo Thi Nham, Nguyen Cong Tru, Le Qui Don, Nguyen
Huy Tu. There are probably more.
Dien
--
Nguy?n Ði?n
Independent Researcher
Canberra
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From: Alec Soucy
Date: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 8:01 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thanks everyone for your input about Tran Nhan Tong. Sorry for letting the thread get cold and then reintroducing it.
I should come clean that the reason for my question about Tran Nhan Tong is because I am presently in Hanoi doing research at one of the new Truc Lam temples in Gia Lam, on the outskirts of Hanoi (called Sung Phuc Thien Vien). I am interested in the way that this new Zen is phrasing itself, successfully I might add, as a "correct" form of Buddhism that has roots in Vietnam's great past. Tran Nhan Tong is evoked everywhere as teh founder of this Zen School. My original question about memorialisations of him outside of the Truc Lam Buddhist "movement" is an attempt to contextualise what I am seeing.
Regarding Mike's suggestion that the naming of Tran Nhan Tong St. in Hanoi can be seen as part of a general revival of Buddhism, does anyone know when the name was changed, and what it was called before?
Cheers,
Halifax, Canada
(currently in Gia Lam)