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Vern Weitzel vern.weitzel at gmail.com
Wed Jun 20 19:02:17 PDT 2007
Dear Justo, cc: Vietnam Studies Group
I do not know about this issue. But I can repost your message to
the Vietnam Studies Group with the request that responses
be sent to you at JJSanchez at post.Harvard.edu or JJSanchez at aol.com
All the best, Vern
JJSanchez at aol.com wrote:
>
> A certain Cong Tang Ton Nu Thi-Nga or "Her Imperial Highness Princess
> Thi Nga of Vietnam" made her appearance in Miami social circles. With
> her genealogy posted at
> http://imperialholdingsinternational.com/Genealogy.htm
> she claims imperial status. Checking Vietnamese history, I see that she
> is not related to Bao Long, son of Bao Dai, the last Emperor of Vietnam.
> Her claim to title comes from prolific Minh Mang who, as you know,
> fathered more than one hundred children with more than a hundred wives
> and concubines. Her alleged great grandfather is a duke and her
> grandfather died at the age of 15 in 1855. How he could have fathered
> her fathered Ms. Thi Nga's father, Mr. Ung Thi (a wealthy man owner of
> the Rex Hotel in Saigon) is a mystery to me. I cannot find Mr. Ung Thi
> anywhere as a member of the Nguyen dynasty.
> Can this young lady employ the "Her Imperial Highness" reserved for
> Crown Prince Bao Long, the Paris-exiled head of the Nguyen dynasty? Is
> she even a Princess? Do you find any mention of any HIH Princess Thi Nga
> of Vietnam? Do you know of any Prince Ung Thi?
> Don't think, please, a silly question. This is not a society page type
> of inquiry. There is a museum controversy hanging on your answer.*
>
> Allow me to thank you in advance for your kind attention and your time.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Justo J. Sanchez
>
TDTranviet hondadream at gmail.com
Wed Jun 20 22:06:46 PDT 2007
Dear Justo,
First of all, she seems to be too young to be a "Cong Tang". Anyone in her
generation (Buu for male; Cong Tang for female) should be at least 80 years
old; my grandfather was a Buu (after the Mien, Huong, Ung generations) and
he would have been over 100 years old if he was still alive.
There are a lot of people who claim to be princes and princesses of Vietnam
just because they bear an imperial name. A few years ago someone by the
name of C.E. Magnus Lindgren, a self-proclaimed chancellor to a certain "
H.I.H Prince Regent Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh of Vietnam" contacted me on behalf
of the "Prince" to ask me what my position was regarding his political
activities. Lindgren wrote, "...a website about Prince Regent Buu
Chanh containing
information concerning his struggle to politically pressure the Communist
Government in Vietnam, so that you may familiarize yourself with his
campaign and notice that you both share common goals concerning the Freedom
of Religion, Liberty and Rights of the people of Vietnam."
He must have sent this to one of my students as well because she thought it
was a swell idea to invite this particular "Prince of Vietnam" and family to
campus and boy, they came with fanfare with costume changes and everything.
I almost felt bad that they had to change in the restroom across the hall.
The most amusing thing was when it came to sorting out family lineage I
learned that he was a descendant from a certain prince/duke who was quite a
lot younger (forgot what the rank was, in the hundredth I think) than my
ancestor was (49th son of Ming Mang). He didn't talk to me again after
that.
The website of the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League:
http://users.panola.com/vietnam/index.html
<http://users.panola.com/vietnam/index.html>which has been changed.
You might want to look up these:
http://www.imperialvietnam.net/
http://orderofthedragon.homestead.com/
I should mention that C.E. Magnus Lindgren seems to be a colourful person as
well http://users.panola.com/lindgren/biography.html. A sort of person that
would welcome some attention.
I must say I find this "H.I.H Princess Thi Nga of Vietnam" interesting. The
business of her reconstructing her family genealogy and to an extent of
reconstructing Vietnamese (Imperial) history is fascinating. You might also
want to look into the Vietnamese Imperial Family Overseas Central Council in
Calif to see if you could locate this Ung Thi.
http://www.nguyenphuochaingoai.com/index.html
And not to worry, a good friend of mine has already snapped this into my
reality: "Your great great great great grandfather might have been an
emperor but she probably was his maid." I guess I'll have to come up with
something good when Iget around to do my family tree.
Thuy Tranviet
Cornell University
Hue-Tam Ho Tai hhtai at fas.harvard.edu
Thu Jun 21 06:09:22 PDT 2007
Actually, as I mentioned to Justo earlier this year, it is possible for
someone in her 40s or 50s to be a Cong Tang.
Ung Thi was the owner, among other things, of the Rex cinema; I was in
the same class as one of his daughters, Cong Tang Tong Nu Nhu Anh. It
was only in one class (philo, at Marie Curie) and I was not close to
her, so I never inquired into the rest of her family. Nhu Anh would be
in her late 50s now. I know she had other sisters, so there is a
possibility that the Cong Tang Ton Nu Thi Nga is legitimate. But I
don't know if the woman in question is indeed a daughter of Ung Thi.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
TDTranviet hondadream at gmail.com
Thu Jun 21 06:30:40 PDT 2007
Ah, in the picture she looks like she is in her 20s or 30s. Yes, now to come
to think of it, it's possible for someone to be a Cong Tang in her 50s but
40s might be pushing it - I guess we are from an old family, some of my
cousins are "Cong Tang" and they are all in their 60s and 70s. I think the
later children of Ming Mang could very well be in this group. (The
H.I.HPrince Regent) Nguyen
Phuc Buu Chanh was in his 60s, well, at least he looked like that in person
in 2004. There might be a Cong Tang Ton Nu Thi Nga in name but her taking on
the title of "H.I.H Princess" is amusing.
Thuy
TDTranviet hondadream at gmail.com
Thu Jun 21 06:45:38 PDT 2007
Oops. I meant the descendants of the later children of Minh Mang, not his
own children. Thuy
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