Embedded Files
From: Thomas Jandl <thjandl@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 7:32 AM
A somewhat unacademic question for those of you currently in Vietnam and using motos. I am one of those who take xe om regularly. Do I need to wear a helmet now? How does that work in practice?
Thomas Jandl
School of International Service
The American University
Washington, D.C.
Tel.: (202) 363-6810
thjandl@yahoo.com
_____________________
--------
From: Dinh Lu Giang <lugiangdinh@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 7:41 AM
Hi Thomas,
If you take a xe om, you don't need to wear a helmet. But if you drive, you will.
I think helmet requirement is a good decision. I have wore it for a long time. It protects your strongly when you fall down. Also, you should bring your helmet from USA, or you have to choose a good one in a good shop. There are Chinese helmets that are very thin and weak.
Giang
--
Dinh Lu Giang,
Dept. of Vietnamese Studies,
University of Social Sciences and Humanities, Vietnam National University _ HCMC - Vietnam
-------------------
Founder of Evietnam Group
http://vietcourses.com
http://vietnameseonline.net
--------
From: Minh Tran <mtran@csulb.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 12:28 PM
Thomas,
My answer may be a bit off since I haven't been back in HCMC since 2003 but my wife is a frequently returner there noticed that city residents do not often wear helmet. I have sent a couple of USA helmet back to VN because the durability and protection are much better than the current manufactured one in VN. The helmet law, correct me if I am wrong, is fully enforced on major highways as oppose to city streets. Although, the city government had told the public to wear helmet, it seems much more difficult to enforce it in a city of over five million people.
Minh Huynh Tran
Graduate Student
--------
From: Juhyung Shim <juhyung.shim@duke.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 6:14 PM
Here are some recent articles about Mu Bao Hiem.
http://www.vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Xa-hoi/2007/07/3B9F7F06/
http://www.vnexpress.net/Vietnam/Xa-hoi/2007/06/3B9F7A1C/
JH
--------
From: Dan Enbysk <danenbysk@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2007 at 10:23 PM
Thomas,
I'm living in HCM City. There are a couple rules that I know of. You don't always have to wear a helmet, but you do if y are traveling on some designated stretches of highways leaving the city (for instance, you must have a helmet if you cross the Saigon Bridge to District 2. Going outside of Hanoi on the Hwy to Perfume Pagoda we had to wear helmets. On the drive from Lao Cai to Bac Ha I had to wear a helmet. Some of the bridges themselves are designated as areas you have to wear a helmet. You can see these areas readily because there will be little stalls alongside the road renting or selling helmets - mostly construction hard hats - leading up to the designated area.
Within the city, I've never heard about a requirement to wear a helmet. Of course it is recommended. I would also recommend Pro-Tec helmets if you are shopping. There is a store in Dist 1. Hope this helps.
Dan
On 7/12/07, Thomas Jandl <thjandl@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
--
Dan Enbysk | Volunteer Fundraising & PR Advisor
danenbysk@gmail.com
EDUCATION for DEVELOPMENT
305/30 Lẽ Văn Sỹ, Phường 1,
Quận Tân Bình, Tp. HCM - Việt Nam
ĐT/Fax: +84-8-991 6032
Cell: 091 622 1471
www.educationfordevelopment.org
--------
From: Jonathan Haughton <jhaughto@beaconhill.org>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 1:14 AM
Hello,
When in Ho Chi Minh City recently I was surprised that nobody on a
motorbike seemed to be wearing a helmet. When I asked, I was told that
a. Helmets are not needed, and may even be discouraged, in town;
b. Helmets are needed on highways.
The story that people tell is that when helmets were made mandatory a few
years ago the accident rate rose. I think that the idea is that with a
helmet, especially one that covers the whole head, one's sightlines are
reduced, making accidents more likely. Because of the higher accident
rate the rule requiring helmets was, I was told, rescinded.
Question: Has there been any careful study of the effect of helmet use on
mortality or morbidity related to motorbike use in Vietnam?
Second question: Would small light helmets, such as bicycle helmets, be
helpful? [Presumably they would not impair visibility.]
I have to admit that wearing any sort of headgear in the heat and humidity
of Ho Chi Minh City can often be unpleasant; no doubt this also plays a
role in people's decisions.
Jonathan
__________________________________________________________________
Jonathan Haughton
Professor of Economics, Suffolk University
and Senior Economist, Beacon Hill Institute for Public Policy
8 Ashburton Place, Boston, MA 02108-2770
Tel: (617) 573 8127 Fax: (617) 994 4216
jonathan.haughton@suffolk.edu
http://mail.beaconhill.org/~j_haughton
__________________________________________________________________
Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu> writes:
>Thomas,
>
>I'm living in HCM City. There are a couple rules that I know of. You
>don't always have to wear a helmet, but you do if y are traveling on some
>designated stretches of highways leaving the city (for instance, you must
>have a helmet if you cross the Saigon Bridge to District 2. Going outside
>of Hanoi on the Hwy to Perfume Pagoda we had to wear helmets. On the
>drive from Lao Cai to Bac Ha I had to wear a helmet. Some of the bridges
>themselves are designated as areas you have to wear a helmet. You can see
>these areas readily because there will be little stalls alongside the
>road renting or selling helmets - mostly construction hard hats - leading
>up to the designated area.
>
>Within the city, I've never heard about a requirement to wear a helmet.
>Of course it is recommended. I would also recommend Pro-Tec helmets if
>you are shopping. There is a store in Dist 1. Hope this helps.
>
>Dan
>
>
>On 7/12/07, Thomas Jandl <[ mailto:thjandl@yahoo.com ]thjandl@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>A somewhat unacademic question for those of you currently in Vietnam and
>using motos. I am one of those who take xe om regularly. Do I need to
>wear a helmet now? How does that work in practice?
>
>
>
>
>Thomas Jandl
>School of International Service
>The American University
>Washington, D.C.
>Tel.: (202) 363-6810
>[ mailto:thjandl@yahoo.com ]thjandl@yahoo.com
--------
From: Thomas Jandl <thjandl@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 6:08 AM
A good friend of mine in Hanoi was (no longer is involved, though) a key person in the drive for a helmet law, and acc. to her, the increased accident rate is a myth. People didn't like helmets for (a) their cost and (b) the heat and humidity issue.
Thomas Jandl
School of International Service
The American University
Washington, D.C.
Tel.: (202) 363-6810
thjandl@yahoo.com
--------
From: Dan Enbysk <danenbysk@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 1:42 AM
All,
I mentioned Pro-Tec helmets in my response to Thomas, however I should have shared this with the list. Protec (http://www.protechelmets.com.vn/content.asp?PageID=39 ) is a non-profit that manufactures motorbike helmets for the Asian population and environment. The helmets are more like bicycle helmets. They are cool, light and don't impair vision like full-visored helmets, yet they meet international safety standards. Protec was started by Asia Injury Prevention Foundation. If you go to their website, there is further information on injury rates and some of their programs to encourage helmet use. They have given thousands of free helmets to children and have other education projects. http://www.asiainjury.org/home.asp.
I read somewhere that most traffic fatalities in Asia (and in particular, Vietnam) are the result of head trauma. I've never experienced anyone discouraging the use of helmets, though I can see from the standpoint of sightlines, the full-covering helmets are dangerous because of the nature of traffic here - you need to be able to see and see quickly. In the same vein, women here often wear scarves over their whole faces - and my experience is they never see you coming - which is why a horn may provide better safety than a helmet! Still, I wear my Protec almost all of the time. Sometimes you get funny looks, but in Saigon, it seems more people are starting to wear them, but it is still a small percentage. Cost isn't too much of a factor I think because you can buy a helmet for around $16-18 USD. I think the whole issue of preventative safety (both on the job and elsewhere) is becoming more of an issue and concern for people in Vietnam as personal income grows and liability becomes a more important issue for businesses. Gradually, we may see more and more people wearing helmets,- especially as the number of cars increase.
Best,
Dan Enbysk (HCM City)
[Quoted text hidden]danenbysk@gmail.com
EDUCATION for DEVELOPMENT
305/30 Lẽ Văn Sỹ, Phường 1,
Quận Tân Bình, Tp. HCM - Việt Nam
ĐT/Fax: +84-8-991 6032
Cell: 091 622 1471
www.educationfordevelopment.org
--------
From: lawrence driscoll <lawdri@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 6:52 PM
Dear list,
In the midst of a new burst of entrepreneurship in Vietnam, this looks like an excellent opportunity for innovative minds to develop a helmet that fits the unique needs of riders in Southeast Asia. In my own view the issue of cooling the helmet, while preserving a lightweight factor, is the most challenging.
In any case, as has already been said, a consciousness about rider safety will surely continue to grow.
Best regards,
Lawrence Driscoll
New Jersey, USA
Vern Weitzel <vern.weitzel@gmail.com>
date Sep 22, 2007 4:35 AM
subject [Vsg] Vietnam quality agency lists 23 helmets meeting safety standards
Main point: look for the Bureau of standards (TCVN) stamp on the
helmet!!!
http://www.thanhniennews.com/society/?catid=3&newsid=32151
Last Updated: Friday, September 21, 2007 20:20:23 Vietnam (GMT+07)
Vietnam quality agency lists 23 helmets meeting safety standards
Vietnam’s Agency for Standards and Quality announced Thursday that 23 brands of crash helmets meet its safety standards and advised consumers to look for its seal of approval.
The announcement follows a recent nationwide inspection by the agency ahead of the December 15 deadline when wearing helmets becomes mandatory for all bike and motor scooter riders.
The 23 brands include ten manufactured in the country and 13 imported, according to the agency.
Ngo Quy Viet, head of the agency, said further inspections would be done soon to update the list.
Buyers should look for a stamp saying “Checked – TCVN 5756:2001”, he said.
He admitted that the number of helmets meeting the safety standards was like “a grain of sand in the desert” considering there were 148 brands being sold in the market.
List of 23 helmet brands certified as safe:
Locally-made: Amoro, Protec, HSL, Hitech, Xanaha Suzuki, Honda, Azura, Sankyo, Amono, Moto.
Foreign-imported: Index Helmet (Thailand), Michel visorex (Malaysia); SGV visorex (Malaysia), BG 03 Cap viso (Malaysia), Yamaha (Taiwan), Apolo (Malaysia), Honda (Japan), TA-15 (Taiwan), Index (Thailand), STM (Thailand), HJC (China), Shell-Helmets (China), Shell-Helmets (USA).
Reported by Xuan Toan – Translated by Minh Phat
Subject: [Vsg] mu bao hiem
------------------------
From: David Marr <dgm405@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 6:25 PM
Is anyone following Vietnam's current safety helmet campaign? Having just returned from a month there, it strikes me that 15 December 2007 will be an important date in the history of DRV-SRV efforts to change citizen behavior. A huge amount of police effort will be required, and previous helmet campaigns have failed. Yet everyone I talked with believed the population will be helmeted this time around. Of course, many of the helmets being sold provide no safety to the wearer, and some people are planning to revert to bicycles (no helmet required) to accomplish short trips. But for an individual not to wear some sort of helmet while driving or being driven on a motorbike on 15 December risks being seen as an act of defiance. The interesting question then becomes: will it stick? Where are the sociologists and anthropologists on this one?
David Marr
--------
From: J Sager <heap.junk@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 6:49 PM
I was in Dien Bien Phu when they implemented a helmet law in mid-September (why this happened early there, I don't know). Over the course of a week, helmet use went (in my estimation) from something like the 5% normal rate to 20% a few days before the deadline to 90% on the first day they began pulling people over.
We were all amazed by this, as the change happened literally overnight. Many (very unlikely) stores stocked up on helmets to cash in on the policy change.
A week after the law went into effect, it was unusual to see anyone in DBP riding without a helmet, save the occasional rebellious grandmother on xe om.
Citizen behavior fully changed. I'd never seen anything quite like it.
-Jalel Sager
--------
From: Adam @ UoM <fforde@unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 6:54 PM
Anything quite like it? How about Tet firecrackers, banned back in the
1990s. A Vietnamese citizen, asked by the Vietnamese language service of the
BBC at the time, with the interviewer expressing a sense of surprise that
citizens might actually obey the law, said that 'well, if the government is
serious about this, possibly the people will do what they are told'.
I love the traffic banner 'Seriously obey traffic regulations'. Ellipsis is
almost obligatory.
Adam
--------
From: Margaret Bodemer <bodemer@hawaii.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 6:59 PM
Jalel's note about DBP, it sounds like Hanoi these days ; everyone is
talking about helmets. There are banners everywhere on the streets about
wearing a helmet, obeying traffic safety, etc. Each xe om I asked in the
past few days responded enthusiastically that they would have to get a
helmet and wear it on Dec. 15 which definitely surprised me. The
neighborhood speakers in our area regularly broadcast messages urging people
to wear helmets, protect their family, etc.... there was an article recently
about the approved helmets. Everywhere I go I seem to see some fashionable
young lady with a brand new bubblegum-pink helmet or candy-apple-red
helmet....
Margaret Barnhill Bodemer
PhD Candidate, Anthropology
University of Hawai'i, Manoa
--------
From: J Sager <heap.junk@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 7:09 PM
This is good because traffic in Hanoi, at least in my opinion, has worsened considerably in the last year. Every intersection is an adventure.
Like the frog in boiling water....
(I would be interested in hard data concerning motorbike numbers, traffic reports, and planning measures meant to mitigate, if anyone knows a good source. Need for work on CO2 emissions and green planning. Thanks.)
-Jalel Sager
--------
From: Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 7:10 PM
Funny you should ask about this campaign. . . .
The level of helmet usage has certainly gone up in Ho Chi Minh City in the last month and a half, although it is hardly 100%. Furthermore, full implementation of the law will take some time, as there is a shortage of good helmets. Some of the helmets riders use, such as construction hard hats, will be somewhat useless in frontal or side crashes.
As I understand it, the helmet law was implemented first in certain districts (e.g. District 2, where I live), and has been expanded to others. Perhaps this strategy will make the success of the campaign more assured.
I don't know about past failures to implement this law, but traffic safety in general has become a big concern of the government. I seem to remember that the Prime Minister listed this last month as one of his 8 major concerns for the coming year. In Ho Chi Minh city, that "Kẹt xe" -- traffic jams -- are a big issue. In Tuổi trẻ there have been many articles on this topic, and one bureaucrat promised to "solve" (or just address?) (giải quyết) the issue. Good luck. If I were a bettor, I'd bet on the relative success of the helmet campaign and on the utter failure to solve the traffic problems.
Shawn McHale
Associate Professor of History and International Affairs
George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
(on leave, 2007-08, at Vietnam National University --
Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam)
--------
From: Merav Shohet <mshohet@ucla.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 9:33 PM
Is anyone addressing the equity/affordability of this issue?
I know a number of people in the Danang area who say they simply can't afford the 300K or so VND to buy a helmet, and are resigned to walk or use a bicycle come December 15. As for "rebellious grannies," it's precisely this issue of affordability that seems to motivate them to hedge their bets and just wear a "non" when they go long distances, where helmets already are required. Meanwhile, those who can afford helmets have all been warning me to make sure to get a "real" one, not one of the "fakes." So, like with so many laws under marketization conditions, their good intent may be impeccable, but the (unintended) consequences, such as reifying class divisions between haves and have-nots, might at least give us pause.
Are there subsidies for those indigent or unemployed who still have a scooter and need it to get to work (if they still have any), or are they all to rely on better-off relatives (to the extent they have these and that they're willing to help), even if it only means getting a cheap, useless helmet for show only?
And who are the ones profiting from helmet sales, whether "fake" or "real"?
Not that there shouldn't be helmet and other such safety laws, but just something else to consider, along with all the statistics ...
Funny you should ask about this campaign. . . .
The level of helmet usage has certainly gone up in Ho Chi Minh City in the last month and a half, although it is hardly 100%. Furthermore, full implementation of the law will take some time, as there is a shortage of good helmets. Some of the helmets riders use, such as construction hard hats, will be somewhat useless in frontal or side crashes.
As I understand it, the helmet law was implemented first in certain districts (e.g. District 2, where I live), and has been expanded to others. Perhaps this strategy will make the success of the campaign more assured.
I don't know about past failures to implement this law, but traffic safety in general has become a big concern of the government. I seem to remember that the Prime Minister listed this last month as one of his 8 major concerns for the coming year. In Ho Chi Minh city, that "K?t xe" -- traffic jams -- are a big issue. In Tu?i tr? there have been many articles on this topic, and one bureaucrat promised to "solve" (or just address?) (gi?i quy?t) the issue. Good luck. If I were a bettor, I'd bet on the relative success of the helmet campaign and on the utter failure to solve the traffic problems.
--------
From: Peter Hansen <phansen@ourladys.org.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Oct 3, 2007 at 9:51 PM
HI David and list,
I wonder if there is a parallel here with the campaign to eradicate
fireworks at Tet, Tet Trung Thu, weddings, etc. It was also a greatly
resented decision, but one that has stuck as a consequence of persistent
policing.
Peter Hansen
--------
From: Roy Hornsby <royby@royby.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2007 at 12:14 AM
I see helmets for sale everywhere in both HCMC and Ha Noi and the consensus is that helmets WILL be worn from December onwards.
But there remains the issue of on-going education about helmet wearing as i see so many people wearing helmets that either have no chin strap or it is flapping idly loose which of course will render the helmet next to useless in an accident.
Unfortunately the law did not come about soon enough for a former student from RMIT VN who died Sunday after her bag was snatched and her bike kicked over resulting in her head hitting the pavement. A real tragedy for someone so young and gifted and a Facebook group has been formed called "In memoriam to Ngoc Anh, lets wear a helmet". It can be accessed here http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12065465413&ref=nf
Some of the comments from her friends about helmet wearing are quite revealing.
roy hornsby
--------
From: Nguyen Tran Lam <lamnt63@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2007 at 12:40 AM
Dear David Marr et al
The helmet syndrome is just among a kaleidoscope of problems that recently occured in Vietnam (food safety, SARS, Avian Flu, Pig disease, 5 million ha of regreening forests, etc.). Anthropologists and sociologists are out there, numerous, but they dont dare to (or get tired of) saying/writting as they know that it is in vain. Officials often say "we have to", 'we should do'..." we will strenghten"...'we hope'...meaning that they love talking about the 'future tense'!
The root of the problems is a) education and knowledge; b) policy without research, not such superficial things
Nguyen Tran Lam
University of Amsterdam
--------
From: Rylan (CET) <rylan@email.arizona.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2007 at 2:25 AM
Interesting discussion.
When something similar was implemented (at least in HCMC) for motorcycle
mirrors, back in 2003 or 2004, it literally changed behavior overnight. Nearly
everyone had mirrors and there was a vendor on every other corner. In the span
of a week or less, compliance rose to nearly 100%. At present, however, this
has gone down somewhat. When I talked to people about mirrors back then, two
factors seemed to explain the sudden transformation. People hate to pay fines,
like they do everywhere. Also, and somewhat unique to Vietnam and countries
with similar state/society relations, most people absolutely loathe even the
idea of interfacing with the police. In some circles, asking a traffic police
officer for directions is akin to an act of lunacy, as I discovered by trying
to do so in the presence of Vietnamese friends. Thus as police seemed to have
stopped pulling people over for not having mirrors, some mirrors have come off,
though many remain despite reduced enforcement. Additionally, with only
anecdotal vignettes--data?s shady but much loved cousin for us
anthropologists--I would say that recently heightened enforcement of speed
limits on highways and closer scrutiny to running red or yellow lights have
also changed traffic behavior somewhat. I suspect that both of these changes
also are mostly the result of wanting to avoid fines and interactions with the
police, more than they are the result of changed attitudes concerning safety.
Rylan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rylan Higgins
Vietnam Programs Director
CET Academic Programs
Doctoral Candidate, Anthropology
University of Arizona
rylan@email.arizona.edu
--------
From: frank.proschan@yahoo.com <frank.proschan@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2007 at 3:22 AM
If the helmet law works, might authorities not be tempted to take on the bigger beast of driving habits more generally?
I fear, in any case, that I will no longer in the future be able to use one of my favorite comparisons. Whether explaining to Vietnamese or American interlocutors the different ways cultural policy is conceived in the two countries, I note that Americans assume that the state should manage traffic but leave culture completely alone; Vietnamese assume that the state should manage culture and leave traffic completely alone. Sure there are small exceptions to the general rule--the occasion red-light runner is not unknown in certain large American cities, and there are subtle mechanisms through which the law influences culture in the U.S., and likewise many Vietnamese would like traffic to be orderly even if they prefer that begin with someone other than themselves, and many would like culture to be less closely managed by the state. But I think the general contrast is valid and has always been a very vivid, easily graspable paradigm. Or at least it is valid for the moment...
Best wishes,
Frank Proschan
--------
From: Joe Hannah <jhannah@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2007 at 10:04 AM
Your parallel with the law on mirrors brings up my own anecdotal memories. I never once met a Vietnamese motorcycle driver who used his/her mirror to keep track of the traffic behind. What's behind doesn't exist -- or more correctly, if you are behind, it's your own look-out. In my experience in HCMC, more often than not mirrors are mounted on (what the manufacturer would say are) the wrong sides, causing them to point back at the driver. This keeps the mirrors from being broken in tight traffic, and allows the driver to see how good-looking s/he is while cruising the city. (Or is this an act of resistence?)
Of course I am being facetious to some degree -- at least about the vanity of HCMC divers -- but as with wearing construction helmets instead of motorcycle helmets, there is compliance, and then there is compliance...
Cheers,
Joe
--------
From: Daniel C. Tsang <dtsang@uci.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2007 at 10:39 AM
Attachments: dtsang.vcf
I was in Guangzhou in January 2007 and the city had just banned all motorcycles. It was an incredible sight, quite light traffic on the roadways. If what they say is true, that Vietnam follows what happens in China, can that happen in Vietnam? dan
[Quoted text hidden]--
Daniel C. Tsang
Social Science Data Librarian
Biblliographer for Asian American Studies, Economics, Political Science, and Film & Media Studies (acting)
468 Langson Library
University of California, Irvine
PO Box 19557
Irvine CA 92623-9557
USA
1 949 824 4978 (Telephone)
1 949 824 0605 (Fax)
dtsang@uci.edu
Social Science Data Subject Guide:
http://www.lib.uci.edu/online/subject/subpage.php?subject=socsci_data
--------
From: Vuong Vu-Duc <vuduc.vuong@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Oct 5, 2007 at 9:54 AM
David and all,
This sociologist-political scientist is among those following this new mandate, and wonders aloud if this reflects, in some way, the ability of the government in VN to shape the way Vietnamese live.
Several people mentioned the successful campaign against firecrackers; so there's hope that this new law will stick too. They're smart to start with government employees and rural areas (Sept. 15) because it's easier to control and enforce; three months later, city slickers will be more amenable to follow suit. Or will they?
Here's a column I wrote on this subject, FYI:
COMMENTARY For ASIAN WEEK Sept. 08, 2007
© Vu-Duc Vuong
SAFETY v. RISK: A GAMBLE FOR VIETNAM
By Vu- Duc Vuong
Michael Marine, upon leaving his position after three years, was asked what had been his most daunting challenge while serving as the U.S. Ambassador in Vietnam; he shot back without hesitation: "the traffic", and he was right.
No where in the world is the traffic more chaotic than in Vietnam; the casualty rate is high, yet a savvy commuter can drive her Honda with the confidence that the other drivers are more interested in getting to their destinations than on hitting her. Vietnamese seem to drive by a different traffic code, relying more on results than on rights.
Thirteen years ago, when then Mayor Frank Jordan of San Francisco led the first official visit to Vietnam, among the delegation was a surgeon from SF General, Dr. Alisa D. Gean, an expert on head injuries. She volunteered several times at Cho Ray Hospital in Saigon, the equivalent of SF General, and each day she assisted in saving the lives of people with head injuries caused by traffic accidents.
Subsequently Dr. Gean campaigned for a helmet law for motorcycle riders in Vietnam, to no avail. In 2001, the Vietnamese Government tried to impose a helmet law; that also ended in failure as the population would not cooperate.
So it was a nice surprise for me on this recent trip to learn that beginning September 15, all motorcyclists in the countryside and all government employees will be required to wear reinforced helmets; and by December 15, everyone in the cities will have to comply too.
On the safety level, this requirement is long overdue, as Dr. Gean can attest, and this law makes perfect sense. Last year, there were some 12,000 casualties from traffic accidents in Vietnam, the majority of them from head injuries suffered from crashes on open road. That's about one September 11 every three months, on a population about one quarter the size of the U.S.
On an economic level, some people are poised to make a bundle with this new law. Imagine tens of millions of helmets, priced from ten to thirty dollars a piece, will have to be produced, or imported, and purchased by everyone who depends on the motorcycle for a living. From kids going to school, to lovers seeking a discrete location, to "Honda taxi" drivers who now must provide a spare helmet for their fares. Not to mention all the thousands of motorcycle keepers who now can charge extra for the helmets.
On a cultural level, however, this will be a challenge to Vietnamese sense of freedom. In a tightly controlled society, both by regulations and cultural practices, where people live on top of one another, perhaps the only brief moments of freedom an average Vietnamese find nowadays are those riding with the wind on a motorcycle.
And there is a political angle too. To the extent that the government can enforce this new law, it's a reflection on how effectively it still runs the country. In the late 1990's, the government tried to change one aspect of the Vietnamese culture by banning firecrackers during Tet, the Lunar New Year. There were villages in Vietnam that made a living from firecrackers, and Chinese-made ones abounded, just as in the U.S.; thus a lot of folks were dubious whether the ban would stick. The classic battle between a nation's culture and its governing body. Put it another way, look how effective the U.S. has been able to control the flow of firecrackers each Fourth of July or each Lunar New Year!To their credits, both of the government and the Vietnamese people, the ban on firecrackers was effectively implemented. Today, throughout the country, most Vietnamese enjoy a calmer, quieter Tet.
As I left Saigon at the end of August, helmets were selling like hot cakes, and some people already began wearing them. By Christmas time, we'll see if the government can still enforce an unpopular law that most people agree is long overdue and necessary.
Vu-Duc Vuong teaches and writes in the Bay Area, and leads annual classes to Vietnam. Contact him at vuduc.vuong@gmail.com
--------
From: Elizabeth St.George <elizabethstgeorge@homemail.com.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Oct 5, 2007 at 6:57 PM
Dear all,
When I was working on a paper on the 10th Party Congress early last year, I was struck by the level of importance given to health issues, and traffic accidents in particular as a major hindrance to economic growth and improved well-being in Vietnam. It is now interesting to watch how this has translated into a very real, well-planned, practical and resource intensive campaign on the part of the state, which, from the discussion on VSG at least, sounds like it is very likely to result in real and rapid change in social behaviour.
For political theorists out there, there may be a lot to learn from Vietnam about policy development and implementation .
Elizabeth
-----------------
Dr Elizabeth St.George
--------
From: B Dwyer <anthrobfd@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Oct 7, 2007 at 12:58 AM
I’m in Sai Gon now as an anthropologist but not sure if I can add an anthropological perspective – if such exists, but I think I can comment as someone who rides a motorbike Sai Gon and has done so, on and off, for a couple of years now.
The first thing is that with the mirrors, most new motorbikes all have twin mirrors but if you look carefully you won’t see many people using them that much, especially in the city. The traffic is so busy a lot of the time that if you look in the mirror to see what is behind you, all you will see is either a sea of bikes, or at night a sea of lights. Personally, I don’t use my mirrors at all. I generally follow the flow of traffic and the rules and mostly everyone else does too. Actually on only two occasions have I been surprised by someone coming up from behind me – out of the blue, so to speak. On both those occasions it was young men at high speed weaving through the traffic. If I am in a hurry and speeding through the traffic then I think all my attention is on the traffic ahead, where I can fit in or get through and so on. Also you tend to notice what is beside you as well. So it seems to me that most of my attention when riding is on what is currently beside me or what is in front. Also as well as other motorbikes, you have all manner of traffic as everyone knows so you are constantly negotiating your position. Though I will say one thing, the increase in cars has meant I do look in the mirror more often especially when you hear a horn sounding. However most of the time people sound their horns if they want to pass you so you don’t really need the mirror because you can hear where they are.
This brings me to the helmet issue. Helmets potentially do to things: they can affect peripheral vision and also affect potential to here – and even if not, actually so, you feel as though they do. I wear a helmet most of the time but sometimes I do not because I feel as though I can’t see or here properly and those things are important in city traffic. So I wonder perhaps if the helmets were such that your ears were left exposed and your peripheral vision was not seemingly affected whether more people would adopt them.
Also its important to distinguish between different types of traffic flows and where you are riding – inter city, country towns and the big cities. I know that helmets will become law but it is interesting to see that most people still do not wear a helmet. I spoke with some Vietnamese friends here and they seemed on the whole to agree with this.
Ok thanks
Brett
--------
From: B Dwyer <anthrobfd@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Oct 7, 2007 at 1:34 AM
I was also just thinking as to why I do sometimes look in the mirror when I hear a car horn and thought maybe it is because the cars are wider or that the horn can be on the right side or the left side of the vehicle or that I am on the car section of the road. Hence, on the one hand, you can't always judge where the car is relative to you, with only your ears and on the other hand, if you are on the inside lane, where most cars go along, you might have to actually physically move out of its way. If a bike is behind you and he sounds his horn you know he is coming around or past you so you are more likely to maintain relative position vis-a-vis other traffic around you, but if a car sounds his horn you generally think he is going to do the same thing but you know also he must come past on your right and that you may have to move - especially, if you are in the right lane.
Also also in the last posting's typos, I meant "Helmets potentially do two things" and "hear" not "here"
thanks
Brett
________________________________
From: anthrobfd@hotmail.com
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: [Vsg] mu bao hiem
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 17:28:48 +0930
--------
From: Saara Leppänen <saara.t.leppanen@helsinki.fi>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Oct 7, 2007 at 2:22 AM
I just got sick of the mirrors because they just fell off when the people
taking care of the bikes moved them. I think that Vietnamese are great in
traffic in the following sense (exception occur of course...): because they
look ahead and concentrate on looking ahead, they are very understanding if
someone turns or stops or whatever, coming from behind they sort of see
what the person ahead is doing and drives their bike according to it. Even
though the traffic is hectic and awful somehow I felt safe, I knew that if
I dont do any fastfast movements with the bike, the people coming from
behind will sort of predict what I do.
Saara
Finland, anthropology major
Vern Weitzel <vern.weitzel@gmail.com>
date Dec 9, 2007 1:54 AM
subject Re: [Vsg] Helmets? and air pollution?
This morning there was a collection of motorbikes outside the the shop
across the street and an old man on the steps guiding them in parking.
They sell Protec helmets. Though, I was told that the same shop had
been raided by the police a couple weeks ago and apparently
unacceptable helmets were removed. I don't know more than that.
Yesterday was the one year anniversary of the death of the nice old
lady who lived next door to us. She was hit by a car crossing that
same street next to our house.
Traffic in Ha Noi can be very dangerous. But there are now many more
traffic police on the road.
The level of pollution is also increasing, making Ha Noi a city with
among the worst air pollution in the world. With regard to Tom Miller's
question, here is a story from VietNamNet.
Vern
http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/2007/06/703056/
Subject: [Vsg] Hanoi launches helmet wearing campaign
------------------------
From: Vern Weitzel <vern.weitzel@gmail.com>
Reply-To: vern.weitzel@gmail.com, vern@coombs.anu.edu.au, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: "[health-vn discussion group]" <health-vn@cairo.anu.edu.au>, "[UNV's in Viet Nam Network]" <unv-vietnam@cairo.anu.edu.au>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 2:09 PM
http://www.vovnews.vn/?page=126&nid=55298
Updated, 12/09/2007, 17:00 GMT
Hanoi launches helmet wearing campaign
The Hanoi City Peoples Committee launched a helmet wearing campaign on December 9.
Present at the launch ceremony were Deputy Prime Minister Hoang Trung Hai, Minister of Transport cum Chairman of the National Transport Security Committee Ho Nghia Dung and representatives of 14 districts in Hanoi.
Deputy Prime Minister Hoang Trung Hai emphasized that traffic accidents have a huge effect on the quality of people’s lives.
Every year the world has 1.2 million people killed and 50 million others injured in traffic accidents and suffers material losses of US$ 518 billion. In Vietnam 35 people are killed and 60 others injured every day. The number of motorbike-related incidents is on the rise, accounting for 70 percent of all traffic accidents.
Administrative agencies will publisise the campaign among the general public from December 10-14. Motorbike riders wearing no helmets will be fined as of December 15.
Up to now about 95 percent of motorbike riders on suburban highways and 35 percent on urban roads are reported to be wearing helmets.
--------
From: Adam @ UoM <fforde@unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 3:24 PM
Viewed from afar, this theatre reminds me of the successful attempt under
Kiet to ban Tet fireworks. This also occurred at a time when the Roi wanted
to show people that, despite many signs to the contrary, he and his regime
had serious authority, like the other princes or the region, or so it
seemed.
What mechanisms were available were thus seriously put into place, and,
added to the clear value of the measures, they seem to have stuck.
The difference this time perhaps is that the Court is giving itself a stick
with which to beat its own back: unlike Tet fireworks, where citoyens who
failed to understand their inherent and truthful logic and so continued to
violate the sensible laws of the realm did so but once a year and to a large
extent invisibly, if not inaudibly, for helmets any cavalcade, any TV
broadcast, indeed any stroll down any road, in the future will show (it
being Vietnam) how the authority of the realm is (as is normal) flouted on a
regular basis. Oh dear. A cat can indeed look at a king, and, Vietnam not
being either East Germany or North Korea, the violations will be there and,
because of their nature, undeniably visible. Humorists may wish to think of
Potemkin helmet-wearing ... And, as a host of manuals for princes have
taught, this is not a good thing for what it means for the general authority
of the state. And for courtiers dealing with a prince whose cavalcade ... Or
whose nightly TV watching ... show that His authority is what it really is
... Dear me.
Vietnam contains a host of examples of these sorts of opportunities to show
the citoyens the value of the regime. If only they would do what they were
told ...
Interestingly naïve politics?
Back in the 1990s Kiet was a politician who had had to create some popular
authority for himself; he was not a creature of the apparat. Perhaps,
therefore, he more wisely chose his target.
???
Adam
--------
From: Tobias RETTIG <tobiasrettig@smu.edu.sg>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 11:07 PM
35 killed per day makes 12,775 traffic victims in a year, not to speak
of the 21,900 injured per year (some will probably die, others remain
maimed and paralysed).
One would have to look to comparable countries and their statistics to
see where Vietnam stands.
An 'apple-pear' comparison with Germany (82 mio population as compared
to 85 mio in VN, different age structure, more cars and less bikes, and
so on): 5,900 traffic victims per year, i.e. 16 per day).
I am sure the helmet campaign will make a positive differences. Social
awareness must and will increase, ideally already at primary school
level.
Tobias
--------
From: David Marr <dgm405@coombs.anu.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 7:22 PM
Also viewed from afar, my guess is that most people will now find something to put on their head that makes it unlikely the police will stop them, and this will continue to be the case in city centers and main highways. But in the suburbs and especially in villages the usage will drop off quickly. The comparison with the successful fireworks ban doesn't hold, as that only compelled change for one day of the year, whereas helmets have to be put on and off multiple times each day. If I were the vua (see Adam below), I would have started with the schools and getting kids to wear helmets (subsidized if necessary), then built the educational effort from there. The fear of police punishment will not be enough to get everyone into helmets. It would be interesting to know how the Japanese handled this issue several decades ago.
David Marr
--------
From: Adam @ UoM <fforde@unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 8:10 PM
An old bull stirs ... Comparison, what comparison?
Well, what is the point of making the comparison?
The answer is, politics. Banning Tet fireworks and failure to wear helmets
involve the attempt to use political power and authority to achieve a change
that appears to benefit large numbers of people, with lots of indirect
benefits also, when the change that is not happening by itself.
Fireworks killed and maimed in Vietnam for decades if not centuries. Driving
motor bicycles without crash helmets does the same thing. Hospital bills go
up etc etc. This is obvious, was obvious, and remains obvious, but
Vietnamese society, like many others, does such things. So the point of
comparison stands. Hobbes argued that life without a state was 'nasty,
brutish and short', and the Vietnamese state now ensures that your children
are far less likely to lose an eye to a firework but fails to ensure that
your daughter is likely to wear a helmet and so avoid brain damage. What are
states for?
Now, as David says, the fear of police punishment will not be enough to get
everyone into helmets. Nor was the fear of losing eyes enough to get people
to stop using fireworks. Authority is therefore needed, and so both
instances show an attempt to engage political authority for the common good,
so that flouting of it will show clearly the inability of the Vua to govern
his people in ways that encourage them to act together for the common good.
So what is the Vua for?
Conversely, getting people to toe the line shows that the Vua CAN govern for
the common good. So the Vua puts his own authority, and position, on the
line in engaging with issues of this sort. So a wise Vua, concerned to build
up his authority in general ('Kings are useful, Kings are good, even if we
loathe their courtiers and bailiffs').
Where the comparison, thus, is particularly interesting is that in these
terms the political risks of failing to get a ban of Tet fireworks to stick
appear to me to be lower than those of failing to get a helmet ban to stick.
And, since political authority (or rather the lack of it, compared with
political power, which is rather different) is what the Vua lacks ... from
afar the political theatre seems a riskier one than wiser heads might have
counselled.
After all, if they can't get people to wear helmets, how can they deal with
the mess in the educational system, etc etc? Given that the Japanese managed
to close down their coal industry in the 1950s in the name of development,
and are not well known for their state's inability to do what it wants,
comparison with Japan would seem like comparing Alabama with Rhode Island.
And perhaps it is exactly that comparison, or rather with exemplars like
Singapore, that has helped drive the risk-bearing?
Adam
--------
From: Chuck Searcy <chucksearcy@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 9:02 PM
Interesting exchange, David and Adam, thank you.
On a more pedestrian level, yesterday as I was walking from my office to a cafe in Dong Ha, Quang Tri Province, along a street that was not heavily trafficked, I decided to note the number of motorbike drivers wearing helmets and those not. Out of 13 bikes that passed me, 11 riders were wearing helmets. The two without helmets were a woman from the neighborhood who maybe was on an errand down the street, the other was a teenager, probably one of those kids who tears through red lights heedless of cross traffic.
Back in Hanoi today virtually everyone I saw was wearing a helmet. My xe om driver said he was buying two helmets, one for himself and one for his customers' use at a cost of 180,000 VND each, in time for the new law's implementation deadline.
Chuck Searcy
Subject: [Vsg] Helmets?
------------------------
From: Bill Hayton <bill.hayton@bbc.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 7, 2007 at 7:24 AM
With just a week or so to go until the new helmet law comes into full effect, can any VSGers in-country let us know how the campaign is going? Is everyone now wearing a proper helmet everywhere? How troublesome has the resistance been?
Bill
--------
From: Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 7, 2007 at 7:35 AM
The push for people to wear helmets is in full swing, -- as it well should be, as on 12/ 15 they start fining people. In Ho Chi Minh City, signs are up saying that you will be penalized 100,000-200,000 dong if you don't have a helmet. Compliance is high in some places at some times. For example, if you go into Saigon center (District 1) from District 2 early in the morning, 75% of riders, I'd guess, are wearing helmets. And they are also wearing better helmets overall.
But overall, compliance is not at the 75% level -- people still need to go out and buy helmets.
Not surprisingly, the price of helmets has been rising.
Shawn McHale
Associate Professor of History and International Affairs
George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
(on leave, 2007-08, at Vietnam National University --
Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam)
--------
From: Tom Miller <milltom@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 7, 2007 at 9:13 AM
i am a good friend of the manufacturer of the Protec helmut, who also makes high quality helmuts for export, and the sad fact is that most helmuts sold do not meet basic impact safety requirements - even the helmuts the police manufacture for themselves! Safety standards are not being enforced, and helmut manufacturers are not allowed to engage in comparative advertising. Thus, even if there is 100% compliance, it will be largely symbolic as long as manufacturers of unsafe helmuts are not kept off the market. Most people are buying only the cheapest (and least effective) helmuts in order to comply with the law. Perhaps some day they will be concerned with their safety and buy only safe helmuts.
Tom Miller
--------
From: Jim Cobbe <jcobbe@fsu.edu>
Reply-To: jcobbe@fsu.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 7, 2007 at 9:24 AM
In Da Nang, I'd say fewer than 15% are currently wearing them, although they are on sale everywhere and my colleagues say the law will be enforced come 15 December. The Ministry of Education and Training back in May printed 133,500 copies of a 110 page booklet on road safey for students, "Tai Lieu: Giao Duc an toan giao thong cho sinh vien, hoc sinh cac truung dai hoc, cao dang, trung hoc chuyen nghiep" [sorry, can't type diacritics], but I'm not convinced they have been distributed outside Hanoi (or even in Hanoi -- I saw a large stack in a Faculty office at VNU). It will be interesting to see what happens on 15 Dec.
--------
From: Rylan (CET) <rylan@email.arizona.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Date: Fri, Dec 7, 2007 at 6:51 PM
My observations from HCMC suggest that attitudes and compliance are highly
variable. At some stoplights, I see something like the 75% compliance Shawn
reported seeing. At other stoplights, compliance is closer to zero, maybe %5 or
%10. Building on Tom?s comment, I agree that symbolism and performance are
important frames for understanding this issue. In addition to the shoddy
helmets, I?ve seen an increase in the number of people carrying helmets with
them. I am sure the reasons for this vary? In one case, I saw a young woman
take off her helmet at a stop light just before entering District One. With a
quick fix of her hair, she stowed her helmet and proceeded into District One,
looking as stylish as ever. I would also add that I?m doubtful there are
enough helmets of any quality to cover the heads of every motorist and
passenger in this city. Do others have thoughts about this particular point?
Finally, the students in my Society & State course this semester were required
recently to survey a handful of students at USSH. A decent portion, say half,
think the new law is a good idea and plan to comply, though few were at the
time of the survey. As many view the law as either a joke, a bad idea, or
entirely unrealistic. One student I spoke to personally looked at me like I was
crazy when I brought it up, and said simply that the government has tried this
before and failed. He does not think it will be any different this time. I
personally think this effort is going to be different, and I am eager for the
arrival of Dec 15.
Rylan
--------
From: Bonny Tan <tanbonny@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 5:55 AM
Hi Bill,
Here are some reasons locals in HCMC have given me for NOT wearing helmets.
(a) its too hot, uncomfortable, less elegant
(b) its more dangerous - i can't hear traffic coming from behind
(c) traffic in the city is not as dangerous as traffic on the highways, outside the city
Its seems the law on wearing helmets isn't new but its strict enforcement is (heresay rather than validated fact -sorry i didn't check). In September, all civil servants were given free helmets to set the example for wearing it. My friends at the local library don't actually wear it all the time.
However, there definitely has been a visible increase in the number of helmet wearers. In March this year when i returned with a helmet purchased from Singapore, almost everyone stared at us! We felt we'd landed from Mars. But today, we're no longer a strange sight on our motorbikes. Still, i'd say its less than 50% wearing it (based on today's reading - it was a Saturday afternoon. On weekdays, peak hours morning and evenings and in areas where the police are likely to be, more are wearing helmets)
Finally, its true - a large proportion of helmets sold won't protect anyone. But to be honest, for a helmet to really protect you, one would have to pay much more, beyond the ordinary VN rider's basic salary. Even so, estimates are that helmets are in shortage with not enough available for the 15 Dec dateline.
Cheers Bons
Bonny Tan
Reference Library
National Library Singapore (telecomuting out of HCMC, Vietnam)
--------
From: Diane Fox <dnfox@holycross.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Date: Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 5:50 AM
I read this while sitting in an internet cafe at the foot of Ho Hoan Kiem, Ha Noi. For a minute or so I counted the number of helmets in the rather heavy traffic. Grand total: 2. More than that I cannot say.
Diane
>>> "Tom Miller" <milltom@gmail.com> 12/07/07 11:13 AM >>>
i am a good friend of the manufacturer of the Protec helmut, who also makes
high quality helmuts for export, and the sad fact is that most helmuts sold
do not meet basic impact safety requirements - even the helmuts the police
manufacture for themselves! Safety standards are not being enforced, and
helmut manufacturers are not allowed to engage in comparative advertising.
Thus, even if there is 100% compliance, it will be largely symbolic as long
as manufacturers of unsafe helmuts are not kept off the market. Most people
are buying only the cheapest (and least effective) helmuts in order to
comply with the law. Perhaps some day they will be concerned with their
safety and buy only safe helmuts.
Tom Miller
O
--------
From: Van Tran <tran@ssrc.org>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 9:57 AM
Attachments: resolution requiring wearing helmets.doc
Is there a “law? Does anyone know the penalty for not wearing a helmet? The only document I am aware of is Resolution 32/2007/NQ-CP and it states that from December 15 wearing helmets is compulsory for all roads. I did not see any provision for sanctions, except “kiểm điểm and giáo dục.” ( “Bộ Công an ban hành quy định việc thông báo về cơ quan, trường học, phường, xã, tổ dân phố, cụm dân cư những cán bộ, công chức, viên chức, học sinh, sinh viên và người vi phạm pháp luật trật tự an toàn giao thông để kiểm điểm, giáo dục.” The resolution is attached for those who may be interested.)
Best,
Van
Van Bich Thi Tran
Associate Director, Vietnam Program
Social Science Research Council
810 Seventh Ave
New York , NY 10019
www.ssrc.org
tran@ssrc.org
--------
From: Dinh Lu Giang <lugiangdinh@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 6:45 PM
Dear Tomm Miller
Protec provides good helmets, yes, but there are others branchs that give better quality. I am using VR-1 imported from Taiwan and it's more expansive than Protec. I would like to hear more about "most helmuts sold do not meet basic impact safety requirements - even the helmuts the police manufacture for themselves!". Did Protec said that or is it just what you guess ?
--------
From: Minh Tran <mtran@csulb.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 7:26 PM
While we are all concern about the law regarding the usage, application, and utilization of helmets as well as helmet’s protection, what are the impacts on society? Has there been any formal study on the employment of this new law? Have the helmet manufacturer performs any formal or informal research on Vietnam (China or any other countries) that employs high usage of these helmets and its safety procedure? Has anyone on VSG attempt to contact the manufacturer?
I am hearing people in the street exhibiting their negative response to wearing these helmets, yet these are not intellectual responses or researches. I understand their consternation and bewildering reaction. However, it does not equalize the daily accidents in the city street. In my routine route, it became a typical scene for me to see brain and body in separate part of the street.
Minh Huynh Tran
--------
From: Ngoc Diem Nguyen <ngocdiemnguyen@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:36 PM
The problem is not about helmet wearing, but awareness. Helmets may help protecting heads, but cannot help reducing accidents and traffic jams. I sometimes call the Vietnamese name of helmets "nón bảo thủ" instead "nón bảo hiểm" for fun as they just help protecting head, not other parts of body. In my opinion, any injury is dangerous.
Yim
--------
From: Tobias RETTIG <tobiasrettig@smu.edu.sg>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 12:01 AM
Hi,
A quick google brings up a World Health Organisation publication
entitled 'Helmets: A Road Safety Manual for Decision-Makers and
Practitioners (176 pages), at
http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/publications/road_traffic/
helmet_manual.pdf
Googling for helmet prices on German google pages (e.g. on the pages of
the most well-known consumer goods testing organisation, Stiftung
Warentest, where safety issues are tested - see
http://www.test.de/filestore/t200404082.pdf?path=/protected/e3/01/07d0f3
e2-b929-44b6-ad2c-daa5c2d6257c-protectedfile.pdf&key=7F73ACCECD48704F148
3EE562928296A5262213E for the report, table of categories tested,
including pictures on page 2) brings up a huge variety of prices:
I. PRICES AND TYPES OF HELMETS
A) Between 50 Euro to 450 Euro for so-called 'Integral-Helme(ts)', ie
those that also protect the jaw and also might have a 'visor' (i.e. to
protect the entire face, including eyes) (for pictures, on a separate
site:
http://www.testberichte.de/testsieger/level3_motorradhelme_integralhelme
_1080.html);
B) There's another category entitled 'Klapp-Helm(et)', though I do not
fully understand the difference here in comparison to the Integral
Helmets - price range is 100 to 360 Euro. For images as to how they look
like, see:
http://www.testberichte.de/testsieger/level3_motorradhelme_klapphelme_10
82.html
C) Finally, there's the 'Jet-Helmet' category, where prices range from
40 Euro (Brand called Takai, sounds Japanese) to 170 Euro. The major
difference to the two above-mentioned categories is that there is no
chin protection, which reduces the security for the motorcycle rider,
though they might have a visor.
II. KEY SAFETY ISSUES
Key issues, apart from whether the jaw and the soft parts of the face
are protected would be (following the criteria of the Stiftung
Warentest), there are two main assessment criteria: safety and comfort.
A) Safety: does the helmet reduce the shock of a fall; is the helmet
prevented from being pulled down in an accident; are the lock and the
chin strap resistant; does the visor resist scratches, shocks, and is it
stable; is the entire head protected with the helmet?
B) Comfort: how good is the manual and the safety tips (are the manuals
in VN in Vietnamese?); is it easy to adjust the chin strap and put on
the helmet; is it easy to open the chin strap and to put down the
helmet; does the helmet fit; comfort of wearing it; visor; is hearing
impeded, is the helmet noise-producing?
III. QUESTIONS
A) Most of the above products probably are not sold on the Vietnamese
market due to being too expensive and because the motorcycles used are
not heavy racing or touring machines?
B) I assume, from Singaporean distance, that most helmets currently used
in VN are of the jet-helmet type (i.e. without chin protection) and
probably also without visors (humidity might cause a problem here)?
C) Does the government provide information on the difference between
good and bad helmets (i.e. what are the criteria of a good helmet?);
D) Are consumers aware of the risks of not wearing helmets, of wearing
bad helmets, etc?
E) Is there a consumer association (like Stiftung Warentest in Germany),
an interest organisation (like the ADAC, i.e. club for automobilists in
Germany), or NGO providing information on the abovementioned risks and
how to prevent them?
F) How well has the entire campaign been thought through?
Cheers,
Tobias
--------
From: dan hoang <hoangdanlieu@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 12:46 AM
I agree with your opinion: the most important is awareness and the law obeydience. Some people ignore the red light and try to go through the street if there are no any policemen. I don't know why they are so hurry as if they were so busy, but infact they do nothing - just drinking tea in their office or read newspapers. Some teenagers are not patient people and they donot know the danger they caused for others when they try to go through the red light.
So the fine need to be given heavily to people who do not obey the law. But the lpolicemen sometime do not do what they have to do.
On TV news this noon showed a campain for helmet waering in Saigon. In Hanoi they have talked about the need of children to wear helmet when they sit behind parents on motocycle.
I have my helmet since I started my driving and it became old (more than 10 years). However, my thought is that it does not help me to feel safer when other people drive like crazy and go through the red light and very suddenly appear from the corner without signal or horn. So drive carefully is the best way to protect myself and then helmet only a mean that show you obey the law.
--------
From: Ngoc Diem Nguyen <ngocdiemnguyen@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 12:11 PM
The Decree 146/2007/NĐ-CP on 14/09/2007 may be the one you need. If you would like to compare with the previous one, please take a look at the Decree 15/2003/NĐ-CP on 19/02/2003.
Yim
--------
From: T. Nguyen <nguyenthanhbl@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 1:03 PM
Based on Thanh Nien on line the penalty for not wearing a helmet is from 100 thousand to 200 thousand Vietnam dong in Ho Chi Minh City..
Thanh
Ngoc Diem Nguyen <ngocdiemnguyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
The Decree 146/2007/NĐ-CP on 14/09/2007 may be the one you need. If you would like to compare with the previous one, please take a look at the Decree 15/2003/NĐ-CP on 19/02/2003.
Yim
________________________________
From: tran@ssrc.org
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: [Vsg] Helmets?
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:57:40 -0500
Is there a “law? Does anyone know the penalty for not wearing a helmet? The only document I am aware of is Resolution 32/2007/NQ-CP and it states that from December 15 wearing helmets is compulsory for all roads. I did not see any provision for sanctions, except “kiểm điểm and giáo dục.” ( “Bộ Công an ban hà nh quy định việc thông báo về cơ quan, trường học, phường, xã, tổ dân phố, cụm dân cư những cán bộ, công chức, viên chức, học sinh, sinh viên ùa người vi phạm pháp lu�ºt tr�ºt tự an toà n giao thông để kiểm điểm, giáo dục.” The resolution is attached for those who may be interested.)
Best,
Van
Van Bich Thi Tran
Associate Director, Vietnam Program
Social Science Research Council
810 Seventh Ave
New York , NY 10019
www.ssrc.org
tran@ssrc.org
--------
From: Van Tran <tran@ssrc.org>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 1:59 PM
Thank you, this helped and out of curiosity, I decided to trace the law and regulation and see how it has evolved, and here is what I found (still patchy and incomplete, and I haven’t yet come across documents that actually require the wearing of helmets other than the 2007 Government resolution):
In 2001 a new Traffic Law was passed and in that there was a provision authorizing the Government to regulate the wearing of helmets by motorbike operators and passengers; it did not say that the wearing of helmets is mandatory . So the Government has the statutory authority to regulate in this area and require the wearing of helmets or not and the sanction.
A Government Resolution 13/2002/NQ-CP of 19-11 required the Ministry of Transportation to issue/modify regulations on the wearing of helmets by motorbike operators and passengers so they are appropriate
The Ministry of Transportation then issue circular no 01/2003/TT-BGTVT on Jan 8, 2003 with instructions/guidelines on helmet wearing. This defines what it a motorbike, road and helmet for the purpose of the regulation. There is an appendix with a list of roads where helmets are required, but I haven’t been able to get this.
The regulation on fines for administrative violations since at least 2003 have set a fine level, but this is a fine regulation not a regulation making it compulsory to wear helmets.
1. In 2003 15/2003/NĐ-CP: 10,00o to 20,000 fine or warning. Only on roads requiring wearing of helmets. In 2001
2. In 2005 152/2005/NĐ-CP ngày: 20,000 to 40,000 (fine; only no option of warning) only on roads required the wearing of helmets
3. In 2007 146/2007/Nd-CP: 100,000 to 200,000 fine (no option of warning)
The problem is that these regulations are fine regulations, there has to be other regulations stating that the action is a violation or defining what roads require the wearing of helmets, what is a motorbike for the purpose of the regulation. So there must be an updated circular 1/2003/TT-BGTVT?
Best,
Van
--------
From: Thomas Jandl <thjandl@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 7:30 PM
I am in in Quy Nhon and find that the number of helmet wearers is high, maybe 60%. People still don't use helmets as much in the very center of the city, maybe when they make trips of only a few minutes. But the moment one gets out of the center by only half a mile, usage rate is surprisingly high.
--------
From: Ngoc Diem Nguyen <ngocdiemnguyen@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 9:58 AM
Based on Decree 146/2007/NĐ-CP on 14/09/2007, 100,000-200,000 VND per person. It does not mention on where. My understanding is that it is applied all over the country. At article 3, it says,
"3. Phạt tiền từ 100.000 đồng đến 200.000 đồng đối với một trong các hành vi vi phạm sau đây:
a) Không chấp hành hiệu lệnh của đèn tín hiệu giao thông;
b) Vượt bên phải trong các trường hợp không được phép;
c) Đi vào đường cấm, khu vực cấm; đi ngược chiều của đường một chiều, trừ trường hợp xe ưu tiên đang đi làm nhiệm vụ khẩn cấp theo quy định;
d) Bấm còi, rú ga liên tục trong đô thị, khu đông dân cư, trừ các xe ưu tiên đang đi làm nhiệm vụ theo quy định;
đ) Xe không được quyền ưu tiên sử dụng tín hiệu còi, cờ, đèn của xe ưu tiên;
e) Người điều khiển xe hoặc người ngồi trên xe kéo đẩy xe khác, vật khác, dẫn dắt súc vật, mang vác, chở vật cồng kềnh;
g) Người điều khiển, người ngồi trên xe mô tô, xe gắn máy không đội mũ bảo hiểm khi đi trên đường theo quy định;
h) Điều khiển xe chạy quá tốc độ quy định từ 05 km/h đến dưới 10 km/h;
i) Chở quá 2 (hai) người so với số người được phép chở (một người lớn và một trẻ em dưới 7 tuổi), trừ trường hợp chở người bệnh đi cấp cứu, áp giải người phạm tội."
________________________________
Nguyen Ngoc Diem
Researcher
Vietnam Academy of Social Sciences (VASS)
Southern Institute of Social Sciences (SISS)
133C Nguyen Dinh Chinh Street,
Ward 8, Phu Nhuan District, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
Tel: +84.(0)8.8.232.051 / Fax: +84.(0)8.8.223.735
Website: http://www.vass.gov.vn/
________________________________
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:03:40 -0800
From: nguyenthanhbl@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [Vsg] Helmets?
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Based on Thanh Nien on line the penalty for not wearing a helmet is from 100 thousand to 200 thousand Vietnam dong in Ho Chi Minh City..
Thanh
Ngoc Diem Nguyen <ngocdiemnguyen@hotmail.com> wrote:
The Decree 146/2007/NĐ-CP on 14/09/2007 may be the one you need. If you would like to compare with the previous one, please take a look at the Decree 15/2003/NÄ�-CP on 19/02/2003.
Yim
--------
From: Roy Hornsby <royby@royby.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 9:46 PM
it's the day before "helmet day" and i'm looking forward to the opportunity to venture out on the streets tomorrow with my camera to record what is happening.
the helmet shops and stalls have been packed the last few days in HCMC and i've been told that helmet prices have risen dramatically.
The Ha Noi based Ky Software and Communication Co has launched an online helmet shop located at http://www.antoan24h.com/
compulsory m'bike insurance comes into force tomorrow also and many insurance deals (I purchased mine from a bag shop opposite my house) come with a free helmet. The helmet that I received does not look as though it would provide much protection in an accident and i'm sure it is not compliant with safety standards.
In the past nobody has paid much attention when I wear my helmet, however of late, people are incredulous and ask me why I am wearing it before the 15th when I don't have to.
There is a lot of discussion that tomorrow we will see a lot more bicycles and electric bikes on the streets because people are not required to don helmets when driving these. Coincidentally I have noticed a lot more of the electric powered bikes getting around and there are some very fancy models that i'm told cost up to US$4,500. How marvellous if this were to result in less m'bike's and more pollution free devices. But somehow i doubt it.
cheers - roy
Roy Hornsby | PhD Scholar
School of Political Science & International Studies
The University of Queensland | Brisbane Qld 4072 | Australia
Phone: +61 7 3346 9341 | Facsimile: +61 7 3365 1388
Mob (AU): 0406 620241 | (VN): +84 908 804407
Skype ID: royby1 | Email: r.hornsby@uq.edu.au, royby@royby.com
--------
From: Matt Steinglass <mattsteinglass@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 2:43 AM
Roy: Compulsory insurance? Really? First I’ve heard of it, and I’ve been out for the last few hours talking to People’s Committee and traffic police. Any citations for this?
Best
Matt
--------
From: Jim Cobbe <jcobbe@fsu.edu>
Reply-To: jcobbe@fsu.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 4:59 AM
That has to be a cheap helmet -- my insurance only cost 80,000 VND for a year, I can't imagine what the helmets are like if they come free with it. In Da Nang, having the insurance was a requirement for registering the [new] bike, I think. Jim
Subject: [Vsg] helmets galore
------------------------
From: Rylan (CET) <rylan@email.arizona.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 6:23 PM
For those of you not in Viet Nam this morning, a brief update regarding the
helmet situation is in order.
In short, downtown HCMC (District One) is experiencing approximately %99.99
compliance. On the streets for nearly an hour this morning, I?ve seen only
one driver and one passenger NOT wearing helmets. Police on corners look bored,
perhaps even slightly disappointed. As a mini sociological experiment, I stood
at a traffic light at the corner of Le Duan and Pham Ngoc Thach yesterday
morning from precisely 7:30 to 7:40, snapping a picture as motorbike
accumulation reached peak density just before the light turned green. I did the
exact same thing (same place and time) this morning. I?ve only looked at them
on my viewfinder, but the images make for a striking comparison for sure, as
compliance yesterday morning was perhaps %20 at this corner.
Of course, we will have to wait and see how long this "transformation" lasts.
Regardless, juxtaposing today with yesterday has me feeling like I woke this
morning from being cryogenically frozen for several years.
Rylan
--------
From: Chuck Searcy <chucksearcy@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 6:35 PM
Same situation in Hanoi. This morning walking from my house to the office I did not see one single motorbike driver or passenger without a helmet. All xe om drivers had spare helmets for customers. Last night around 10 pm on downtown sidewalks dozens of impromptu helmet vendors worked feverishly among discarded cardboard boxes and piles of shiny helmets transacting sales as fast as buyers could hand over their cash. Looks like 99.99% compliance to me.
Chuck
--------
From: Jim Cobbe <jcobbe@fsu.edu>
Reply-To: jcobbe@fsu.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 6:52 PM
Looking out my window [in Hai Ba Trung] I'd say Ha noi is not as good -- about 95% for drivers, maybe 60% for passengers in a very small sample. Jim
-------
From: Bonny Tan <tanbonny@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 7:41 PM
This is so like Singapore the "fine" city - incredible what a "fine" can do. The strange thing that I noticed however was
(a) noticeably even less pple used helmets the last week - almost as if in protest to having to use it from 15th onwards
(b) more pple asked about my helmet - whilst driving alongside me!! (it's Italian purchased in Singapore so it does look different)
Cheers Bons
PS: Guard your helmets from now on! They're in high demand..
--------
From: Thomas Jandl <thjandl@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 9:02 PM
Yesterday about 1% of motorbikers in HCMC wore helmets. Today, I sat in a cafe in a busy street (as if there were any others in HCMC) and counted violators for 30 minutes: Only 6!
One young man
One very young child on a moped whose other 3 riders were wearing helmets
Four young women
And traffic doesn't seem to be down either.
My xe om driver had an extra helmet, and police were out in force to issue tickets for violators.
A friend of mine who was part of the initial helmet initiative in Vietnam several years ago, however, is not so optimistic. She thinks the government will enforce for a while to avoid losing face, but then the enforcement will decline. She just hopes that by that time wearing helmets will have become commonly accepted.
--------
From: dan hoang <hoangdanlieu@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 9:12 PM
anyway, millions of helmets have been sold and bought!
--------
Subject: [Vsg] helmets again
------------------------
From: Roy Hornsby <royby@royby.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Group Studies <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 6:12 PM
It hasn't taken too long for people in HCMC to disregard the new helmet laws. I notice many people now going helmet-less, particularly the passengers and, alarmingly, I notice parents not bothering to helmet their children. The other night a bike with 2 adults and 3 children pulled up alongside me and the children were not wearing helmets. When I remarked on this the mother said wryly, "Oh well, its only 3 people not too much". I think she meant that they would cop the fine and not worry too much.
Christmas eve I was over at Tan Binh District and there were dozens of young people riding helmet-less on the busy Cong Hoa St and surrounding smaller streets. But the classic was just outside my house on Nguyen Dinh Chieu St. I was riding behind a young couple, both of whom were not wearing helmets and a police bike with two uniformed traffic police came past me and drew alongside them. The police totally ignored the fact that these young people had no helmets and went on past with barely a glance.
Obviously, if the police don't continue to enforce this law people simply won't comply.
cheers
Roy Hornsby | PhD Scholar
School of Political Science & International Studies
The University of Queensland | Brisbane Qld 4072 | Australia
Phone: +61 7 3346 9341 | Facsimile: +61 7 3365 1388
Mob (AU): 0406 620241 | (VN): +84 908 804407
Skype ID: royby1 | Email: r.hornsby@uq.edu.au, royby@royby.com
--------
From: Nguyen Qui Duc <DNguyen@kqed.org>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Group Studies <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 7:11 PM
Dear list,
I've noticed the same in Ha Noi. It may be the holidays: constant traffic jams, difficulties with taxis, and concerns about hairstyles may have to do with ignoring the law, but yesterday afternoon many were riding without.
Late last night, about half of the people I saw in the street were riding without.
I've been told the government is considering letting children under 14 ride without.
I haven't been able to check the news. Apparently there's a "space problem" at schools when it comes to helmets. Parents are having to buy and carry many helmets, as one parent may drop off the kid(s), another one picks up the kid at the end of the school day.
People also tell me they keep forgetting their helmets, or they were "just going a short distance."
I've often walked out of the house and shops without my helmet. Stores and cafes have a number of forgotten helmets. The cold weather in Ha Noi does not seem to be an added incentive.
I see some removing their helmets while they're riding along, simply to talk on the phone.
I often see men wearing women's helmets, and assume it's because they have forgotten theirs, but some say it's an expression of style, and a form of protest.
Nguyen Qui Duc
--------
From: Adam @ UoM <fforde@unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 5:22 PM
What is being reported on the mass media? With what slants?
Adam
--------
From: Adam @ UoM <fforde@unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 6:33 PM
I am hearing from VSG that there is not success in the urban areas. ??? And also that the Government/State is NOT enforcing helmet-wearing (as it enforces, for example, not being allowed to set up independent student unions ...)
Adam
--------
From: Diane Fox <dnfox@holycross.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Date: Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 7:14 PM
Hi--
Well... this feels like the story of the 7 blind men describing an elephant. In the 5 days I was in HCMC after the 15th, we were noticing nearly 100% compliance, as we did on the road from Binh Chau to HCMC. I did see one person pulled over to be fined, however. One more puzzle piece in the picture. I left on the 20th--did those of you noticing non-compliance now see compliance before that date?
Diane
From: Roy Hornsby <royby@royby.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 7:39 PM
Hi
yes there was [mainly] compliance before that date but it seems as the days go by more people are thinking they won't bother to wear the helmet and as i mentioned previously, I witnessed the police doing nothing about it. Of course that was only an isolated incident.
I also notice many people who are not wearing helmets are carrying them on their bikes, so they have them, just don't want to wear them.
yesterday, i noticed many people without helmets, especially the children. Duc commented that there is the problem of where to store the helmets and that, for a large family, carrying all the helmets is an issue. That is true but one small bun eatery that I go to on Le Thanh Ton St has overcome this problem by placing small hooks on the wall above each table so that patrons can hang their helmets up. Very simple, very effective.
Diane, did you attend the anthropological conference at Binh Chau?
cheers - roy
--------
From: Adam @ UoM <fforde@unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 7:39 PM
This seems to me the old story of the relative laxity in relations between
the King and his Dukes (aka Trung uong/Dia phuong)- some do, some don't, and
so 'it all depends'. Rhode Island vs Alabama. Queensland vs Victoria.
Adam
--------
From: Adam @ UoM <fforde@unimelb.edu.au>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, Dec 26, 2007 at 10:21 PM
Roy's remark about technology and where to store them is interesting. Any
other observations? The standard Honda is designed to permit only a couple
of helmets to be attached to it, put in a box etc.
Adam
--------
From: Romi <wearevn@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 8:52 AM
Just adding to Giang's observations:
- The media did mention about the significant reduction of people wearing helmet at night time when there are apparently no police (at all) on duty to watch and fine the 'law-breakers'.
- In the countryside, I'm not sure about other places but in such a remote mountainous area as Ba Be (Bac Kan) where I spent the last 4 days, 100% of the motorbike drivers I saw were wearing helmets. I was quite surprised at first and questioned a xe om driver who is a Ta`y. He replied without hesistance 'Oh the enforcement must work very well here. They (police and village's security guards - I guess) have fined many people severely. 150,000 VND you know? Big money!' And of course, this driver does not want his customers to get fined so he always has a spare helmet for the customers.
Fear of being fined might be the most common reason why people choose to wear helmet now. For a start, it is a good motivation. But in a long run, how to encourage people to think of their safety first over every other complaint is a tough question...
- Romi -
Dinh Lu Giang <lugiangdinh@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Diane Fox, I like your metaphore of the 7 blind men.
To Adam: In HCM City, I saw that 99% wear helmet. Is it possible to say that the campaign is successful in city ? Or do you expect the utopic 100%? It's ridiculous to count 1, 2, 3 men without helmet and say that the campaign fails.
Giang
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Subject: [Vsg] No police (at all)
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From: Minh Tran <mtran@csulb.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 2:04 PM
Romi,
This is an interesting observation! I have noticed it during my times in HCMC, especially at night. As a youngster, my friends and I would race down the street of HCMC at night and can never find a policeman at all. However, this was years ago.
Bad things only happen in daytime never at night, so why the police patrols the night?
Minh
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From: Minh Tran <mtran@csulb.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 11:55 PM
Not to hinder the efficacies of the Vietnamese police forces but personal observation often tells a disparate and implausible story of the nation’s police services.
As I observed, there are differences between the traffic police (Canh Sat) and the generalize police force (Công An); not to confuse administrative police to district police to traffic police. Of course, Canh Sat is a division within the Cong An (if my memory serve me). District police such as Công An Phuong or Quan administers, supervises, or oversees their own area and negate most other areas.
Often nocturnal functions of the Công An included raid of brothel, narcotic rings, and calls of domestic violence, club brawl, etc.; street policing is not one of them after dark.
Minh
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Diane Fox <dnfox@holycross.edu>
date Dec 27, 2007 11:54 PM
subject public service ad campaign Re: [Vsg] helmets again (and again)
Romi--Not just fear of fines, but quite a powerful tv spot--can anyone help fill in the missing parts? There are 3 or 4 scenes. One is of a beautiful young woman brushing her hair. As we watch, she turns her head and we see a long scar down the shaved side of her head. I think the caption is something like "You don't want to wear a helmet because you are afraid of messing up your hair-do?" Then there is a man sitting in a wheel chair in front of his home in a village, and another lying in the hospital constrained by various medical devices. Another caption reads something like "You don't think it could happen to you?" But I've just caught this at times when I couldn't give my full attention, and would be grateful to anyone who can give a clearer rendering.
Diane
Subject: Re: [Vsg] helmets and the Wear a Helmet Campaign
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From: Romi <wearevn@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 10:42 PM
Hi Diane,
Thanks for adding that powerful TV ad. It is actually part of a comprehensive public service campaign, "Wear a Helmer. There are no excuses" led by Asia Injury Prevention Foundation (AIPF). The campaign includes a range of public ads on TV, print media, street billboards, Internet and several studies on brain injuries in Viet Nam. It was this campaign that successfully advocated for the enforcement of the helmet wearing law to move forward than earlier plan.
The TV spot, perhaps the heart of the campaign, is aired on VTV1 at 6:30am and VTV2 at 7:45pm everyday. It brings up the most common excuses for people's dislike wearing a helmet and alerts their consequences through shocking and obsessive images - of a young woman brushing her hair with one shaved side, on the background of a psychiatric hospital; of a weary mother vs. her seemingly son who is having his head fixed after an accident; of an old mother feeding her son who seems to be totally unconscious; of a man sitting on a wheelchair and later lying on bed needing lots of helps from his family; of a daughter crying by a side road for the loss of her mother... This TV spot recently received the "Best TV ad" prize at the annual Vietnam's advertisement ideas award, Golden Bell 2007.
A brief presentation about the Wear a Helmet campaign as well as the TVC can be found in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wS_0RVBw4o or the campaign's website www.doimubaohiem.com (Vietnamese) or www.wear-a-helmet.com (English)
Best,
Romi
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From: Hoang t. Dieu-Hien <dieuhien@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2007 at 12:40 AM
Thank you, Romi, for this information.
Is there or will there be anyone doing a post-campaign / post-launching of the law study on rates of enforcement, of helmet-wearing, of head injury from motorcycle accidents, and of death from head injury in motorcycle accidents, and reasons for wearing or not wearing helmets?
These data would be informative for any need of follow-up campaign or adjustments to the law or the way enforcement should be carried out.
Best,
Hien
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Subject: Re: [Vsg] helmets again (and again)
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From: Chuck Searcy <chucksearcy@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 9:37 PM
"Step by step" as the Vietnamese always say -- so maybe the campaign will catch on and hold fast over the longer term, regardless of enforcement levels. Maybe not.
However, from a safety standpoint, there are two immediate concerns, one of which has been cited already: (1) wearing helmets improperly (not buckled, chin straps hanging loosely); and (2) confusion or lack of a clear requirement regarding children's helmets. Small children are the most vulnerable in an accident, yet they are the ones most often without a helmet. It will be interesting to see if this is corrected in the future.
Chuck
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From: Bonny Tan <tanbonny@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 4:47 AM
CHILDREN & HELMETS
Actually in recent reports in the local papers (English), it was highlighted that children under 14 may be excluded from wearing helmets. This is because of the "danger" involved in children actually wearing helmets (with reference to toddlers). Studies had shown that few helmets fit their heads, their skulls are still soft, the helmets are too heavy, in an accident, their necks are too weak to support the weight of the helmet - these are some of the reasons for children to be exempted from wearing helmets.
CHRISTMAS & HELMETS
On the whole, compliance has been high. It was amazing cos during Christmas eve, when bikes could barely move, everyone seemed to still be wearing helmets (In HCMC) despite the heat. This includes both adults as well as children.
HELMETS & PROTECTION
Finally, i still don't think any of these helmets can actually protect a driver upon impact. I distrust their reliability in actually being designed to protect the rider.
SINGAPORE & VIETNAM
In Singapore the wearing of helmets (just as the use of seat-belts in cars for drivers as well as backseat passengers) was only enforced through the consistent impositin of hefty fines. I don't think Singaporeans are any better than Vietnamese in this sense (we would habitually break the rules too) except that we're much smaller to manage and the police do enforce the fines.
Still wearing ze helmet!
Cheers Bons
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From: pham hongtung <phamhtung@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Sun, Jan 6, 2008 at 7:48 AM
Dear List,
I've just found a very interesting article on the topic "helmet", but not for this world!
Here is the link:
http://www1.dantri.com.vn/Sukien/Lam-mu-bao-hiem-cho-nguoi-coi-am/2008/1/213257.vip
PHT
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