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From: Susan Dixon
Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 5:55 AM
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Dear VSGers,
What initially struck me as a frivolous thread has, thanks to the academic bent and some anecdotes, become an interesting commentary on Vietnamese business and socioeconomics. It's a pleasure to be on the list!
So I'll add my own anecdote. Mike Gray observed: "Anecdotally, the clientele at the TN cafes is older VNese men, say 30s and up." My own experience was quite the opposite. This past May, I went to an English club meeting at one of the main Trung Nguyen stores in HCMC, and I don't think that anyone was over 35 (except for me). They use the non-smoking second floor for their meetings, and I was there the night of a very lively karaoke fundraiser for one of the charities that they support. The woman who organizes the group is Viet Kieu. My Vietnamese host (whose sister was one of my students in the U.S. and knows Starbucks) proudly told me that TN is THE Vietnamese coffee. It looked like an upscale Starbucks to me, with comfy chairs and mood lighting. The absence of a constant soundtrack made it more pleasant, in fact.
As for the coffee: when I returned to the States with a penchant for thick, dripped Vietnamese coffee with a chicory taste, all of the coffees in the tasting as the local coffee roastery seemed like brown water. The owner of the shop scoffed off my interest in "inferior" coffee.
I'm enjoying both Trung Nguyen and Café Mai at home now.
Cheers,
Susan
--
Susan C. Dixon, Ph.D.
Visiting Assistant Professor of French & Francophone Studies
Department of Languages, Cultures and Linguistics
Bucknell University
One Dent Drive
Lewisburg, PA 17837
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From: Jason Morris-Jung
Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 8:52 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Out of curiosity, does anybody know where Highlands Coffee fits into all of this, if at all? They rented out all of the choice "coffee corner" locations in Hanoi and HCMC and rumour had it that they were paving the way for a Starbucks take-over in Vietnam...
jason morris-jung
uc berkeley
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From: <minhgiangnhatle@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 9:43 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I am curious about Highland Coffee as well. I did not have much experience with Trung Nguyen and only been to Highland Coffee a few times when I was in Ho Chi Minh City. The last time I departed from Vietnam, Highland Coffee was getting ready to open a chain in my hometown, Vung Tau. Still not sure how popular is Highland Coffee comparing with Trung Nguyen in Vietnam.
Jane Le
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From: Sarah G Grant
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear list:
I hope that I have properly read each bit of this thread. The American Anthropological Association meetings were this past week (bravo to all of the wonderful Vietnam Studies papers I heard!) and I'm just now catching up on the conversation.
I would like to reply to Jason first: I haven't heard any updates on the Highlands real estate buyout though I can say that Starbucks is indeed sourcing Catimor (varietal) coffee from the south-central highlands (for a couple of years now), used primarily in espresso blends in their massive, non-US market. I do think the global coffee industry loves the rumor and thrives on the spread of rumors — perhaps it's the uncertainty and risk of a speculative market and the constant threat of external variables (a frost in Brazil or a pest outbreak in Colombia that would directly influence Vietnam's coffee livelihood). I know this is something we have spoken about in the past but I am interested in communicating with you off list about rumors and tangible and abstract commodities.
And to answer Hue Tam Ho Tai's question, Starbucks, like most other coffee purchasers in Vietnam buy their lot from third party distributers. Any given Vietnamese coffee mill might store thousands of 60 kilogram bags destined for different buyers but the small farmer is very much disconnected from this as they generally sell to collectors during a harvest. There are very few farming operations with farm-to-cup models.
The rest of the thread seems to be an op-ed on Chairman Vu's personality, the aesthetics of café spaces, and personal coffee taste preferences. I think that Chairman Vu's opinions and perspectives on the industry, as well as his geographically rooted pride in the central highlands are fascinating. As a list-serv devoted to knowledge production and exchange about Vietnam, and one that should be incredibly excited about an article on Trung Nguyen (how many incredible questions does this media exposure engeder?), I would like to suggest that in the context of this forum, it does not matter much whether or not Trung Nguyen coffee tastes over-roasted and Starbucks tastes watery. Trung Nguyen coffee, whatever you think about it as a comestible product, represents something much larger than an antithesis to Starbucks or Highlands. From an industry perspective, Trung Nguyen is a globally recognized coffee brand and one that garners much attention as it holds the possibility to become something in between instant soluble "Grade Two Five Percent Black and Broken" Robusta coffee from Vietnam and a specialty high altitude variety of Arabica. Whether Trung Nguyen becomes a "successful" global brand or not, Vietnam is most definitely the subject of much global coffee speculation and interest and I might argue that increasing domestic consumption in Vietnam (one of the fastest growing domestic coffee markets in the world) is in large part due to branding and origin stories generated by Trung Nguyen. Regardless, the "Brand Channel" quips provide great fodder to think through contemporary marketing and branding in Vietnam as well as the notion of corporate responsibility mentioned in the article. I realize that this is an incredibly general question, but really, what does corporate responsibility look like in contemporary Vietnam? What does it mean?
In another interesting media tidbit, the most widely read coffee industry trade magazine, Global Coffee Review, published a front page article on Chairman Vu in the March 2012 edition. Here's a snippet: http://globalcoffeereview.com/profile/view/trung-nguyens-chairman-on-resolving-the-coffee-paradox (the full article requires a subscription). He is certainly a celebrity in the Vietnamese coffee world and a growing personality in the global industry.
Michael: what do you mean by "mediocre quality of the beans?" Are you speaking solely from your own perspective as someone who consumes a "better" coffee or with some familiarity of coffee grading schemes and processing? There are myriad opinions about coffee quality, consumer taste preferences, and production/processing methods. Lest we forget that a majority of the world is consuming soluble Robusta coffee and preparation methods vary greatly across time and space. Yes, Starbucks is a global brand but Nestle, Foldgers, and several other coffee companies still dominate the global market. The "third wave" in coffee (think speciality boutique coffees from micro-roasters, compared to the second wave [Starbucks], and the first wave [Foldgers]) is highly specific to a small percentage of consumers in the US, Western Europe, and increasingly Japan. Perhaps coffee is still a utility drink, sometimes mapped onto social occasions in many parts of the world. The successful branding of coffee (and especially Vietnamese coffee) may have little to do with taste and the processing methods Trung Nguyen chooses to use but more to do with an interesting origin story, a distinct taste, and some "exotic" mode of preparation (a phin and condensed milk, for example). Even within Vietnam, I think we all know that preparation methods, styles, and preferences for particular origins vary quite a bit. Many of the Vietnamese coffee industry members I interviewed in Dalat have a striking fondness for Duc Trong or Dasar coffee as these spaces may have been a part of their family lineage while many other industry members prefer coffee from Buon Ma Thuot because, to paraphrase several of my interviewees, it's the coffee capital of Vietnam and it tastes of special soil. I think that Chairman Vu's talk of global expansion here is a way to render visible a market that is, ostensibly only visible to consumers at the processing and import/export level and not coffee drinkers themselves (save those on this list-serv who are, undoubtedly familiar with Vietnamese coffee). I would also like to suggest that bold statements about the Vietnamese industry, from within Vietnam and Vietnamese coffee purveyors is an interesting way to challenge claims and accusations that Vietnam is a culprit in various coffee crises and is only capable of producing "poor quality" coffee.
On one last note and a question, domestic consumption of Vietnamese coffee outside of Hanoi and Saigon is something I am particularly interested in. I am most familiar with Lam Dong and Dac Lac provinces but I am curious to hear more about small, street-side cafes elsewhere. Or small single café brands that do directly source their coffee (BOSS Coffee in Dalat is one such café/roaster). If anyone has any interesting experience or insight into small domestic coffee operations, please feel free to respond to me on or off list.
Best,
Sarah G Grant
Ph.D. Candidate, Cultural Anthropology
University of California, Riverside
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:29 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Thank you, Sarah for a great post.
By googling Vietnamese iced coffee, one can read up on the respective merits of Trung Nguyen vs. Cafe Du Monde (which has chicory in it). I agree that Chairman Vu is trying to promote Trung Nguyen by generating all this publicity. Whether it can remain as a stand alone brand while expanding globally is unclear. HonestTea started as a project by a Yale MBA and remained a small niche brand until it got bought by Coca Cola and got access to the Coca Cola distribution network.
In VIetnam, I've only drunk coffee in small coffeeshops, but in response to another poster, I can attest that Highlands Coffee is very visible in Hanoi, notably at Hanoi Towers (ex Hoa Lo/Hanoi Hilton).
Sarah, can you give us an idea of the VN related papers at AAA? Thanks!
Hue Tam Ho Tai
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From: Ginh Li Giang
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:31 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Grant,
I remember our conversation in HCMC and also recall that you are doing your research on Vietnamese coffee. I am enjoying reading your post.
Good luck.
About coffee products from DakLak and its surroundings, I remember that on the way from DaLat to HCMC, there are several coffee brands, such as Tâm Châu... They are also very good. A friend of mine, who lives in Ban Me Thuot, said that Trung Nguyen was not the best coffee in his city. Coming back from his hometown, he usually brings me some bags of really good coffee with no name.
Giang
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From: Ginh Li Giang
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:34 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Professor Hue Tam,
Highlands Coffee is also very visible in HCMC. These days I usually go to HL coffee for appointment and even lunch. At Thýõng Xá Tax, for example, the HL coffee occupies the two floors with beautiful view on Rex hotel
Ðinh Lý Giang
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 5:41 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Lu Giang
Yes, I've noticed Highlands Coffee in Saigon. I was responding to Minh Giang who was wondering about its presence in Hanoi.
Hue Tam
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From: William Turley
Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:14 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Just a footnote to Sarah's terrific post:
The degree of roast has been mentioned but not explored in this thread. It's important because, as young coffee drinkers might not know, roast used to be much more important than it is now as the basis for appreciating its taste and marketing beans. Light roasts were most popular in Sweden and the US, dark roasts in France and Italy. Then someone got the idea of mimicking the wine industry and emphasizing place of origin, or terroir. Marketing by terroir allows the seller to claim that the product has special properties and charge a premium price. However it also leads to lighter roasting in the belief that only this allows the special properties ofterroir to express themselves. Even in bastions of dark roast like France (where I now live half the year) taste preferences are moving toward light roasts, to such a point that the local torrefactor has no dark roasts on hand and describes my custom order as carbonisé. In offering dark roasted coffees, Trung Nguyen may be sailing into the wind, but I think it would be more accurate to say it has found a way through blending and additives to make a different kind of dark roast -- one that is unlike the traditional French/Italian sort -- and thus grab a market segment abandoned in the hype of terroir and light roasting.
Bill Turley
Emeritus, Southern Illinois University
William S. Turley
Chemin de Coste Longue
Quartier Notre Dame
Lançon-de-Provence, France 13680
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