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From: Robert Whitehurst
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 3:51 AM
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
I know this isn't a weighty matter to most but for myself I have added the weight of many years' pondering to my curiosity: early in my marriage to a girl from An Giang Province, it was pointed out to me that the proper way to peel bananas was to break them in the center and then to peel them towards the ends from there. There is a particular snap of the wrists when holding a ripe banana which makes this easy but it does take a certain skill. My young wife told me that "only monkeys and Americans peel bananas from the ends [I usually peel them from the stem]. To keep the domestic tranquility I break my bananas this way when at home. Lafcadio Hearn wrote about the Philippinos in New Orleans during the late 1870s early 1880s that they typically broke their bananas this way before peeling them, so I know from that at least that the practice is not unique to Viet Nam and to the 20th century. Over the years I have wondered and asked about why this breaking is done, but haven't really gotten any information. In Viet Nam when I have been back to visit, usually the subject is changed when I bring it up in mixed company. Is this practice common in Asia ? Are there any reasons for a prejudice against peeling bananas from the ends ? Any illuminating thoughts would be welcome.
Warm Regards, Rob Whitehurst
Independent Researcher
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From: David Brown
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:52 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
This is Tuyet, David Brown's uhm . . . ol' wife (of 42 yrs). I am invited to venture an opinion about the weighty matter of peeling bananas. I can't imagine anything that is more serious and pressing, so I hope to help out a bit here . . . It's odd that most Americans seem to nude-peel the entire banana, then chomp on to eat them! The proper way for peeling long bananas is of course to use the sharp edge of your nail to make a lateral skin break (as opposed to twisting the poor banana's tough skin), break it into two halves. It will come apart easily if at the break -- no special wrist action is required. Then peel from the broken end of each piece toward your palm (no nuding allowed!) as you eat the fruit.
For shorter bananas like chuoi tay (north) aka chuoi su (south), peel from the stem end is traditional. Removing the entire skin before eating, whether short or long, is considered crude -- i.e., phallic, I suppose, though that was never made explicit when I was a kid in Saigon.
Sincerely, Tuyet
www.tuyetbrown-psychotherapist.com
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From: Nhung Walsh
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 5:09 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Rob,
I was taught by my grandmother (old school Hanoian) of not to peel the banana from the end because it does not look nice and polite when you do that in front of people, especially in front of visitors or khách (who you are supposed to show off to them that you have obey and educated kids when they visit your house). You should cut the banana in half, put them together as if they are spooning each other (?) on a plate to offer khách. When eating, do not to use your nail or hand, then peel to the end. Do not remove the banana off the stem. You will continue to peel the skin as you eat and you need to eat it in at least 3 bites. It is rude to peel the banana off, or peel it all the way down as you eat (because you strip it naked?), or eat off the half in one bite (you will be judged as greedy?). When you finish eating the banana, the skin has to lay neatly on one side of the plate and not showing any inner skin. (I dont know why either.)
Also, she also said, it is important to watch the way people eat. People who are patient, gentle (ngu?i t? t?n) and educated (có h?c) will never eat too fast; and whoever eats fast will live their life the way they eat, meaning they will have to be in a hassle all their live and will not as happy or lucky (su?ng) as the slow eaters.
So I never eat banana in front of my grandma, :) I am interested to know if this has anything to do with the way the French eats banana, or if this came from Chinese belief of bad luck or something?
Thank you,
Nhung
Nhung Walsh
Graduate Student
Department of History
TenHoor Hall, Box 870212
University of Alabama
Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 5:31 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I don't remember being specifically taught how to peel or eat bananas. We liked to eat tiny bananas (chuoi huong). We never peeled them all the way out of politeness, but more out of concern for hygiene: not so clean hands need not come into contact with the banana. As for how many bites, it,s always impolite to stuff your mouth. I never heard comments about phallic associations until I came to the US.
hoc an, hoc noi, hoc goi hoc mo (sorry for the lack of diacritics)
Hue Tam Ho Tai
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From: Ngô Thanh Nhàn
Date: 2011/9/27
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear Rob,
I agree with Prof. Hue Tam. Hygiene is the main issue, esp. for children. I think
we eat other fruits the same way, we don't usually wash them, and use the
skin/shell/peel to keep our hands from touching the inside.
My mother used to come home from the market with chu?i già. Some of us
could not eat the entire banana... so cut it in half or break it in half, to my
family was a practical issue.
-- Nhàn
PS: I used to practice with a group called Peeling the Bananas, found by
a filipino american. And banana means something else.
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From: Frank Proschan
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:44 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I once used exactly the banana-eating example in teaching a workshop in the Mekong Delta on ethnographic research. In my own cultural dialect, bananas were always consumed from the stem end, peeling as needed, rather than the blossom end as would be more commonly the case among those who have seen the banana in its native habitat. Like most Americans of my class/age/regional background, I grew up assuming that bananas grew hanging downward (Rousseau-like), rather than with the blossom ends upward, and I speculated to the workshop that our lack of direct exposure to banana trees could account for our bizarre mode of consumption. Rare is the occasion on which I have ever seen an Asian consuming a banana from the stem end rather than the blossom end.
Half of the participants in the workshop vehemently insisted that it was more polite to break the banana in its middle, as described by earlier correspondents, while the other half just as vehemently denied that there was any Vietnamese custom of this nature. Pretty much all agreed that you would never begin at the stem end. But not a one could offer a convincing explanation of why it was right to do it one way rather than another, although a number came up with very convincing rationalizations. The point of the exercise being that not every cultural phenomenon can be explained, even if we can sometimes point to trends or tendencies in behaviour.
For my Kmhmu friends, one would never cut a banana in half if it is for human consumption: breaking is the only option. Cutting a banana with a knife is reserved for those to be offered to the spirits, and one would never confuse spirits and humans.
And a prize for the first person who can explain why a banana split always has three of everything (three scoops, three flavours, three sauces)...
Frank Proschan
37 place Jeanne d'Arc
75013 Paris
FRANCE
p.s. and who can explain why (in Hanoi) you can have /bun vit/ and /bun lon/, and /pho bo/ and /pho ga/, but you cannot have */bun ga/ or */pho vit/?
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From: Jo
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:53 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Here’s another guess:
Dear Rob Whitehurst,
Speaking as an anthropologist, my guess—based on your wife’s negative comparison of the monkey style of peeling a banana—is that a taboo arose against doing things the way monkeys do them perhaps as a semiotic of human identity. It seems that cross-culturally, humans imitate monkey behavior to mock others, they don’t take imitating monkeys as otherwise a reasonable behavior. Even in India where a monkey deity, Hanuman, is worshipped, people do not imitate monkeys!
Best wishes and thanks for posting an interesting conundrum.
Joanna Kirkpatrick
Vis. Anth.
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From: Jo
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:07 AM
To: Frank Proschan <frank.proschan@yahoo.com>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
“The point of the exercise being that not every cultural phenomenon can be explained, even if we can sometimes point to trends or tendencies in behaviour.”
I second this point—not all cultural ‘phenoms’ have consistent emic rationales, and if they do not, our etic rationales are mostly conjectures.
Joanna K.
VA
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From: Kyle Horst
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:44 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I was taught early on (’81-’82) by Hai Phong-area Catholics that the quickest way to tell if a Vietnamese woman is a Northerner or not is to give her a banana to eat: if she breaks it in half she’s a Northerner; if she doesn’t she’s from the Center or South, and so lacking the learned propriety which prevents a woman from any such immodest gesture. Perhaps the “more polite” half described below were Northern immigrants, and those denying the custom not Northerners…..(I’ve been breaking my bananas in half every since.)
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From: Tai, Hue-Tam
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:26 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Ha, ha, ha!
Try breaking a chuoi huong into two! What do you do with the second half while peeling (partly) and eating the first half?
Hue Tam Ho Tai, unreconstructed southerner
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From: Erica J. Peters
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 2:33 PM
To: Frank Proschan <frank.proschan@yahoo.com>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I can't find colonial texts on how people were eating bananas, which suggests that the French didn't see anything odd in the Vietnamese method.
In 1889, Lanessan said: "Like us, les annamites eat bananas ripe and raw." (L'Indo-Chine française, p. 281).
But here's an odd anecdote:
"The Khmers are the laziest of men, and also the least intelligent in Indochina. When an annamite places a peeled banana on the cheek of a cambodgien who is lying down, the latter asks the former to put it in his mouth so he doesn't have to bother." (127)
L-B Rochedragon, "De Bangkok à Saigon par terre," Bulletin de la Société de Geographie de Marseille, Vol 13 (1889), pp. 110-144.
Maybe the whole anecdote is fictional, emerging from the over-heated imagination of a French traveller. As for the question of banana splits -- Wikipedia agrees with you that there are three of everything (three garnishes, as well -- "the classic banana split is made with scoops of vanilla, chocolate and strawberry ice cream served in a row between the split banana. Pineapple topping is spooned over the vanilla ice cream, chocolate syrup over the chocolate, and strawberry topping over the strawberry. It is garnished with crushed nuts, whipped cream, and maraschino cherries.") But no mention of why.
Originally, they don't seem to have taken that form:
"Banana Sundae: Have long, narrow dishes for this purpose. Peel a nice ripe banana, slicing it lengthwise. Between these two sections place a portion of ice cream. Then put a portion of whipped cream on top and sprinkle with a little grated chocolate." (The Spatula, Vol 12 [1905], p. 412)
"Banana Splits: Peel and split a banana, place a portion of ice cream on top of the slices and cover with crushed pineapple and whipped cream."(Druggists circular, Vol. 51 [1907], p. 428)
"Banana Splits: This name covers a class of delicious sundaes that have for their base a banana peeled and then split lengthwise... When these sundaes are properly and neatly served, they are attractive, make good sellers, and will bring 15 cents or 20 cents each." (Ice cream trade journal, Vol. 5 [1909], p. 21)
"Whole Banana Sundae: This must be served upon a dish. Split a banana lengthwise and place over it a portion of ice cream. Numerous variations are possible. You can use any kind of ice cream, and add a dash of syrup if you like." (The practical soda fountain guide, by William S. Adkins [1911], p. 169.
The 'banana split' [is] the most intricate, the most complex mess ever given shelter in the human system...It is served on a large platter and looks like a shore dinner. There is no regular recipe for it. No two were every made alike. If anything in the fruit and vegetable line has been left out it is because it has stopped growing. When you order one, make yourself comfortable for the day – that is, if you give the order in the morning... As soon as you place it in nomination they start bringing stuff from all parts of the building and place it on the platter in front of you... You look at the rummage sale in front of you and you don't know whether to start eating or send out an S.O.S. for Big Bill Edwards. Finally you plunge in and eat forty-seven spoonfuls without stopping, but the pile seems to get bigger. You tackle it from all sides, but it simply will not dwindle. To add to your enjoyment, everyone in the store is watching you. After the first hour, you content yourself with jabbing it.... You'd give all your worldly goods if some one would yell 'Fire!' and give you a chance to escape... (The Druggists circular, vol. 56 [1912], p. 647)
My guess is that the reason for the many flavors & toppings is to justify a high price -- but as to why they would use three of everything, I have no idea. Is there connection to Vietnam? Do tell, please, Frank!
Erica
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From: Tess Do
Date: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:29 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear All,
I was not only taught at a very young age to break a banana in half before eating it but was also told how to eat an ice-cream stick in the ‘proper’ way, that is, from the stem up, which as a little girl I found particularly difficult. Licking it sideway and protruding one’s tongue to do so or sucking it from the top was certainly not a choice. The reasons given for those eating manners with the ice-cream stick were of a practical nature: in the hot weather in Vietnam the ice-cream melts quickly so eating it from the stem up would stop its dripping onto one’s clothes; by licking the child’s tongue might stick to the ice cream, the way it would with an ice cube, so one should not do it let’s one gets hurt.
I was also scold by my parents when I ate a whole corn without breaking it in half, although this eating habit was more tolerated than the one with the banana.
The use of the body pillow was another childish habit that I was not suppose to carry on after a certain age (10 or 12 I guess). Of course, the only reason given was “You have grown up, you are no longer a child”. Vietnamese parents, in the old time, could really ‘get away’ with any sticky questions from their children whom, at the first place, should be obedient and were not allowed to question anything. To question parental decisions was deemed insolent.
Tess Do
Lecturer in French Studies
Room 510 Babel
School of Languages & Linguistics
The University of Melbourne
Victoria 3010 Australia
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From: Shawn McHale
Date: Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 3:59 AM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear all,
Excuse me for my irrelevant tangent, but the argument between northerners and southerners over the proper way to peel a banana reminded me of Dr. Seuss in the Butter Battle book:
"Then my grandfather said,
"It's high time that you knew
of the terribly horrible thing that Zooks do.
In every Zook house and in every Zook town
every Zook eats his bread
with the butter side down!"
"But we Yooks, as you know,
when we breakfast or sup,
spread our bread," Grandpa said,
"with the butter side up.
That's the right, honest way!"
Grandpa gritted his teeth.
"So you can't trust a Zook who spreads bread underneath!
Every Zook must be watched!
He has kinks in his soul!
That's why, as a youth, I made watching my goal,
watching Zooks for the Zook-Watching Border Patrol!"
Hear hear!
Shawn McHale
--
Shawn McHale
Associate Professor of History
George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
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From: Balazs Szalontai
Date: Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 4:25 AM
To: mchale@gwu.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
And another classic:
Besides, our histories of six thousand moons make no mention of any other regions than the two great empires of Lilliput and Blefuscu. Which two mighty powers have, as I was going to tell you, been engaged in a most obstinate war for six-and-thirty moons past. It began upon the following occasion: It is allowed on all hands, that the primitive way of breaking eggs, before we eat them, was upon the larger end; but his present majesty's grandfather, while he was a boy, going to eat an egg, and breaking it according to the ancient practice, happened to cut one of his fingers. Whereupon the emperor, his father, published an edict, commanding all his subjects, upon great penalties, to break the smaller end of their eggs. The people so highly resented this law, that our histories tell us, there have been six rebellions raised on that account, wherein one emperor lost his life, and another his crown. These civil commotions were constantly fomented by the monarchs of Blefuscu; and when they were quelled, the exiles always fled for refuge to that empire. It is computed, that eleven thousand persons have, at several times, suffered death, rather than submit to break their eggs at the smaller end. Many hundred large volumes have been published upon this controversy, but the books of the Big-endians have been long forbidden, and the whole party rendered incapable, by law, of holding employments.
Jonathan Swift, "Gulliver's Travels"
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From: Andrew Wells-Dang
Date: Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:38 PM
To: mchale@gwu.edu, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Who knew that old Theo Geisel was a student of Vietnamese dialects? The Zooks are clearly northerners and the Yooks are southerners. Fortunately, the border patrols are no more...
Andrew Wells-Dang
Hoi An (home of the Zhokes, an important sub-group)
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From: H. Leedom Lefferts
Date: Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Peeling Bananas in Viet Nam... & eating ice-cream on a stick
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
I too, coming from the nations to the west, have observed various
methods of banana eating. Was told in Northeast Thailand that only
monkeys eat bananas the way Americans tend to.
But, on a more important note, I'm puzzled how a person, without a very
large tongue prominently stuck out, could possibly eat a popsickle
(ice-cream stick) from the stem up. In other words, the mechanics of
the operation escape me.
Could someone provide a demonstration, perhaps on a Youtube movie?
Thanks for a throughly enjoyable chain of messages . . .
Leedom
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