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From: Rylan (CET) <rylan@email.arizona.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 2:38 AM
Dear list,
I write in hopes of clearing up my confusion regarding the violence that took
place on March 16, 1968 in the area associated with the following place names:
Son My, My Lai, My Khe. On a recent visit to the memorial (my first), I learned
that I had until then possibly been using a somewhat inaccurate place name (My
Lai) to refer to the massacre. At the memorial, the place name Son My is used.
This was the first time I had heard of it referred to as the Son My Massacre,
so I asked our guide about this difference. He told me that we were at Son My,
and that My Lai was about 5 KM away. I asked whether the violence associated
with the phrase ?My Lai Massacre? had taken place at both sites. He said
that to his knowledge it had not. Can anyone provide an account of how wide
spread the violence was that day and where it took place? A possible follow up
question: why do many North American based references cite the My Lai Massacre
and not the Son My Massacre? (A Google search for ?Son My Massacre?
produces 500 results, whereas one for ?My Lai Massacre? produces 135,000.)
Finally, I know that part of my confusion could reside in my less than
comprehensive knowledge of Viet Nam?s various administrative levels (village
vs. hamlet, etc.), and any clarity along these lines would also be greatly
appreciated.
Thank you,
Rylan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rylan Higgins
Vietnam Programs Director
CET Academic Programs
Doctoral Candidate, Anthropology
University of Arizona
rylan@email.arizona.edu
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From: ryan nelson <sociolgst@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 7:03 AM
Last year, I too attended the memorial. I received a private tour as I was the only visitor there. It was special for me to have roamed the compound by my lonesome for over an hour after the tour’s end. A great time of contemplation for me.
Okay, here you go. Enjoy the history. Hope it clears some things up.
Oliver, Kendrick. The My Lai Massacre in American History and Memory. 2006. Manchester University. 183-200+.
<http://books.google.com/books?id=1wisoI-wP5MC&pg=PA192&dq=son+my+or+my+lai&sig=5G33e9rpoJIyeByt3jUGNrNxCnc#PPA183,M1> (Well sourced. Some pages not available)
Racy, Nick and Wendy Yanagihara. Vietnam. 2005. Lonely Planet. 52-4.
<http://books.google.com/books?id=eB_kEfBlMUEC&pg=PA252&dq=son+my+or+my+lai&sig=HJnc21w1wOkodD90y1B_9WuQELQ#PPA252,M1> (Not scholarly, but contains a short detailing of the Massacres on the Song My subdistrict.
Probably one of the most read books on Viet Nam in the world)
Watson, Bruce A. When Soldiers Quit: Studies in Military Disintegration. 1997. Greenwood Publishing. 143-53.
<http://books.google.com/books?id=Nj6G92ORcfkC&pg=PA145&dq=son+my+or+my+lai&lr=&sig=0kVcaiBLduWwUxPI39ouOTyPrVk#PPA143,M1>.
There is also an Emmy award winning documentary entitled Four Hours in My Lai floating around somewhere. I’ve not been able to find a place where I can obtain it - legally. However, you can watch it on You Tube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYzb9DH7YAE&feature=related>. (My apologize to Judith if I’m posting a website in violation with copyrights. Let me know and I’ll not do it again)
Never hurts to check out Sheehan’s Bright Shining Lie and Ellsberg’s Memoirs. If wasn’t at a coffee shop I’d cite pages. I imagine both elaborate on the massacres. Perhaps in a couple hours I’ll provide page numbers.
Peace in Viet Nam
Chuc Mung Nam Moi
Ryan Nelson
Writer, Researcher, Student
Nha Trang, Viet Nam
Does anyone happen to have in their possession or know where I might be able to find an audio copy of Terry Nelson & C Company’s “Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley”? The song hit #37 on the Billboard Top 40 country hits on May 1, 1971. Lyrics available at <http://www.preterhuman.net/texts/lyrics_and_music_related/unsorted_lyrics/battle_hymn_of_lt_calley.txt>.
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From: Bush, Dan <DBush@sccd.ctc.edu>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Attachments: winmail.dat
In the past I have borrowed the film in VHS format under the title, Remember My Lai, from the following lending source:
http://www.afsc.org/newengland/bigcat/ttl.php?FID=591
It has often has left students quite shaken.
To my knowledge it was first broadcast in the U.S. on Frontline, but copies are not available through PBS.
Dan Bush
South Seattle Community College
dbush@sccd.ctc.edu
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From: Mike High <mike.high@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:07 AM
Rylan,
Wikipedia has a good Web page on this, explaining that the massacre took
place in Mỹ Lai and My Khe, two hamlets of Sơn Mỹ village, in Sơn Tịnh
District of Quảng Ngãi Province.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai
That seems to fit with most of what I've read, but not with what you were
told.
As in so many things in Vietnamese studies, it seems there are many layers
to the answer: documents of the time also refer to "Tu Cung and Co Luy"
hamlets as being the site of the operation that led to the massacre. The
name "Tu Cung" is also used in many contemporary Vietnamese references to
the site.
The most detailed explanation that I've found is in "The My Lai Massacre: A
Case Study" by Major Tony Raimondo:
"NOTE. My Lai is the name given to several sub-hamlets falling within a
certain proximity of each other. The hamlet of My Lai was marked on American
maps as consisting of My Lai 1 through My Lai 6, Binh Tay, and Trung An. The
massacres at My Lai actually occurred at Tu Cung, one of these sub-hamlets.
Tu Cung, Truong Dinh, and other sub-hamlets, were collectively marked on
American maps as My Lai 4 (SEE MAPS). To further complicate matters, Tu Cung
had a number of sub-sub-hamlets (two of which are Binh Tay and Binh Dong).
The Vietnamese concept of political divisions and subdivisions is altogether
different from, if not alien to, the Western concept. (This cultural
difference would initially hamper American investigators working under the
auspices of the Peers Commission -- i.e., it is very difficult to
investigate a crime whose locations are called by different names by
different people.) For the sake of expediency, instructors should continue
using the universally familiar designation of My Lai."
[From a PDF version posted at "www.buffgrunt.com" -- I have been unable to
find an official site that has this, so I am trusting that this is a true
copy.]
So, in the end, this seems to take us even further away from what your guide
was saying. Was your guide from the area? I've been lucky to have some
very good guides at times, but I have also had some who were the source of
the most amazing conflations, transpositions, and outright inventions,
especially in regions that were not familiar to them.
:: Mike High
Great Falls, Virginia
USA
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From: Mike High <mike.high@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Date: Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Addendum: I did find one other note that would explain your guide's
statement: the report of the Sơn Tịnh District Chief to the administrator
of Quảng Ngãi Province, March 1968, describes Tư Cung as a "neighboring
hamlet" to Mỹ Lai, both lying within Sơn Mỹ village. So, it seems that the
Vietnamese administrators regarded Tư Cung and Mỹ Lai as quite distinct,
while the American forces listed Tư Cung as a part of Mỹ Lai 4.
So, you were standing in Tư Cung Hamlet, about 5km from Mỹ Lai Hamlet, and
both were within Sơn Mỹ village, Sơn Tịnh District. (And the "Mỹ Lai
massacre" never happened.)
My apologies for my intemperate comments about guides--I've recently
returned from a trip where I had to work pretty hard to convince one guide
that the "Ba Trieu" was not another name for the elder Trung sister, that
the Tay Son emperor Quang Trung was not a supporter of the Nguyen Dynasty,
and that Thich Nhat Hanh was not an agent of the "puppet government" of
South Vietnam.
:: Mike High
Great Falls, Virginia
USA
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