Vietnam & Gaza

From: Judith A N Henchy via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 4:02 PM
To: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong <nguyenvo@humnet.ucla.edu>; Pierre Asselin <passelin@sdsu.edu>; Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] VSG Administrative note

Dear Thu Huong and others,

Thank you to those who came to the defense of Balazs. As I explained to him in a personal email requesting that he not leave the list, it was not my intention to target his email as being tangential, but to act preemptively to prevent the thread from veering off target. I appreciate that many of you on the list, including Balazs, have been careful to restrict your comments to comparisons that are indeed relevant to the list, and I have learnt much from those insights.

Thank you again to the list for maintaining our respectful community.

With best regards,

Judith Henchy

VSG List Administrator

Judith Henchy, Ph.D., MLIS

Head, Southeast Asia Section

Special Assistant to the Dean of University Libraries for International Programs

Affiliate Faculty, Jackson School of International Studies

From: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong <nguyenvo@humnet.ucla.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:48 AM
To: Pierre Asselin <passelin@sdsu.edu>; Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>; Judith A N Henchy <judithh@uw.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] VSG Administrative note

Dear Balazs and all,

Whether I’m in agreement with comments made on this thread and elsewhere, I’d like the opportunity to read them. Sometimes topics that seem tangential to VN are of vital pertinence to some scholars doing Vietnamese studies. As for Balasz's comments, whether we agree or disagree, they directly address Vietnamese history in relation to a current issue that no one can ignore at the moment. My students, including those of Viet heritage with family history tracing to both North and South VN, regularly ask me such questions since Oct 7. These questions have become more urgent since the horrible violence that has been unleashed on them. Many of my students, Viet or not, have been part of the encampment movement narrowly or broadly speaking. They have paid for it in being beaten and flash banged, shot with rubber bullets, and arrested. Their need to think across revolutions in VN and Palestinian liberation is not irrelevant. We can’t draw a tight circle around what constitutes Vietnamese studies and still be of relevance. Not to mention some of us here, myself included, work precisely on the topic of how to view colonialism, imperialism, revolution, liberation across incommensurate historical contexts. As such, I’d like to read what other folks think.

I hope you don't unsubscribe, Balasz!

Best,

Thu-huong Nguyen-vo

UCLA

From: Tim Gorman via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 3:48 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Hi all,

Maintaining this list has long been a difficult and thankless task. I know everyone feels strongly about the situation in Gaza (and on our campuses) but can we please show some respect for our tireless administrator and keep the conversation on Vietnam-related topics?

Thanks,
Tim Gorman

Montclair State University, NJ USA

From: Cau Thai via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 3:20 PM
To: Pierre Asselin <passelin@sdsu.edu>; VSG <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Pierre and List,

First, several points to be clear:

1. I am for a two-state solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

2. It helps to distinguish between the Palestinians- war victims and the Palestinians who kill innocent people. I stand united with the former and against the latter.

3. I hold Western governments and Middle East governments partly responsible for tragedies inflicted on millions of people in that area. These governments should have actively worked with each other and with the Palestinian Authority after Arafat's death in 2004 for a road map to a two-state solution. They have failed to do so.

4. I believe that like other rights defined by the United Nations in 1948, the right to peaceful assembly and protest is a universal and constitutional right.

Since late last year, violence has been seen in pro-Palestinian protests in America, coming from all sides: protesters, counter-protesters and police. To many parts of the world, it seems the U.S. is no longer a "stable and peaceful" country.

Meanwhile, since many Westerners have said Vietnam is a stable and peaceful country, I would like to share the following story:

"Vợ tôi, Kim Chi dặn:

- Bữa trưa nay anh phải tùy nghi di tản. 09.00 em đi họp mặt với các bạn học sinh miền Nam tập kết và liên hoan… 1954 - 2024, 70 năm rồi, mấy chục đứa vẫn gắn bó thương nhau với bao nhiêu kỷ niệm. Toàn trên 80, u 90, chắc gặp nhau được lần này…
Kim Chi chuẩn bị áo quần, quà cáp rất chu đáo, hớn hở ra đi như đứa trẻ!
Chừng một giờ sau thấy Kim Chi quay về, mặt buồn bực:
- Chúng nó không cho đi! Hôm nay 14/3, nó tưởng mình đi thắp hương tưởng niệm 64 chiến sĩ hy sinh ở đảo Gạc Ma!
- Sao em không đưa giấy mời đi họp mặt học sinh miền Nam cho họ?
- Em đã cho họ xem tin nhắn và bảo cậu công an khu vực ngồi xe với cô đến chỗ liên hoan rồi cùng ăn trưa, sau đó trở về…
Nó báo cáo với cấp trên, rồi bảo, trên không đồng ý."

https://boxitvn.blogspot.com/2024/03/khong-hieu-noi.html

The year is 2024, 105 years after a young Hồ Chí Minh allegedly co-authored a document to demand the French to give his people back the rights to live as humans.

2024 is also the year the authority in Saigon kept a woman from leaving her home to meet her old friends for a 70-year reunion.

The comment quoted in the story above is from Nguyễn Đình Bin. He was Vietnam's Deputy Foreign Minister and CPV's Central Committee member.

If we are upset with how the police has mishandled pro-Palestinian protests, if we are upset with the Palestinian ordeal in the Gaza and elsewhere, then should we, as friends of Vietnam, have similar reactions to life in that country nowadays, not life for Westerners but life for the Vietnamese?

How much longer for the West to consider it normal for the country we all love, to, among other things, place its citizens in cages anytime the authority wants to?

Best,

Calvin Thai

Independent

From: Stephen Denney via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:58 PM
To: Anthony Morreale <amorreale22@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Thank you Anthony for the additional details. I don’t see any contradiction with the source I cited. I also read the press release by the university. In the 33 years I worked at UC Berkeley there were occasional incidents such as this one, usually against conservative or pro-Israel speakers.

Steve Denney

From: Anthony Morreale via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:27 PM
To: Stephen Denney <srdenney@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Hello Mr Denney,

Any assaults or vandalism that occurred on that day are being investigated and the perpetrators are being sought for arrest.

Though I do recommend consulting the Berkeley school newspaper about the incident, instead of the Israeli state propaganda which you just shared. The Daily Cal article can be read here. Note that the talk was a purposeful provocation organized by the Israeli consulate to fuel their ongoing specious accusation of antisemitism. The operation went very well from their end. I personally don't think the protesters should have dignified the event with their presence, they shouldn’t have stooped to the level of the guest speaker , who publicly claimed that

“Every school, mosque, hospital, kindergarten (in Gaza) – all – without exception – is a terror camp. There is no exception. There is not even one exception.”

Nor do I think they should have broken the window. But again the focus here is being shifted toward a single broken window at UC Berkeley, instead of the fact that we have funded the complete obliteration of every single educational and medical institution in the Gaza Strip and killed 40k people, mostly women and children.

Anthony

UC Berkeley

From: Stephen Denney via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 10:04 AM
To: Anthony Morreale <amorreale22@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

I don't want to venture off-topic, but I believe a mob preventing an individual from speaking on campus and forcing the audience to escape through a tunnel would qualify as violence. That happened two months ago at UC Berkeley. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/americas/1709131133-violent-mob-forces-jewish-students-to-evacuate-through-tunnel-at-uc-berkeley-event

Steve Denney

UC Berkeley Indochina Archive retired

From: Pierre Asselin via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 8:53 AM
To: Hawk, Alan J CIV DHA DHA R&E ACTIVITY (USA) <alan.j.hawk.civ@health.mil>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Alan:

Sincere thanks for bringing the discussion back to Vietnam. Everything you write is entirely consistent with my understanding of life in North Vietnam at the height of the American War, and the policies promulgated by Party-State authorities to silence dissent and facilitate the expeditious achievement of their military and political objectives below the 17th parallel.

In defense of Hanoi leaders, the truths you underscore were all too common in authoritarian and totalitarian states during the Cold War.

Luckily, the Cold War is over, and with the triumph of liberal capitalist democracy and the relegation of Marxism-Leninism to the dustbin of history, we no longer have to fear state infringements upon and violations of basic individual and collective rights.

Again, Alan, thank you so much for reminding the members of this list how awesome democracy and America are, and how fortunate each of us is to live in an age when people no longer have to fear expressing their political and other opinions thanks to Washington's victory over the forces of totalitarian darkness.

Pierre

Pierre Asselin

Professor of History - Dwight E. Stanford Chair in US Foreign Relations

San Diego State University

From: Judith A N Henchy via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 8:45 AM
To: Hawk, Alan J CIV DHA DHA R&E ACTIVITY (USA) <alan.j.hawk.civ@health.mil>; Ben Quick <bnquick74@gmail.com>; Thi Bay Miradoli <thibay.miradoli@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear VSG, Please note my earlier request that conversations about the current campus unrest be limited to topics of direct interest to Vietnam Studies.

Thank you for respecting the rules of engagement agreed to by the VSG scholarly community.

Thank you.

Judith Henchy

VSG List Administrator

From: Anthony Morreale via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 7:48 AM
To: Hawk, Alan J CIV DHA DHA R&E ACTIVITY (USA) <alan.j.hawk.civ@health.mil>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

By your definition, Rosa Parks' refusal to leave the bus was an act of violence and presumably warranted state coercion. Any public gathering which remains after a police order to disperse, no matter on what grounds, is itself an act of violence. Such a capacious and frivolous definition of violence can hardly clarify matters.

Anthony

Berkeley History

From: Hawk, Alan J CIV DHA DHA R&E ACTIVITY (USA) via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 7:39 AM
To: Ben Quick <bnquick74@gmail.com>; Thi Bay Miradoli <thibay.miradoli@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Just to clarify, peaceful protest is expressing an opinion. It allows you to chant slogans (even rhetorical excess), hold signs and hand out leaflets.

If you confront somebody, get in their face, shout at them, threaten them (even obliquely), that is simple assault. You are no longer peaceful.

If you spit on them, that is assault and battery. You are no longer peaceful.

If participation is coerced, even using peer pressure or the threat (even implied) of ostracization, you are no longer peaceful.

If you block their movement, prevent them from using a path or drive on a road to get from one place to another, force them to take a different route, you are no longer peaceful.

If you detain them while confronting them, that is a form a kidnapping. You are no longer peaceful.

If you set up tents and take control of area without permission of the owner, that is trespassing. You are no longer peaceful. (Would anyone on this list accept this behavior in your house or apartment?)

If you are asked to leave the property by the owner or the government (if a public space) and refuse, you are no longer peaceful.

If you erect barricades to prevent take control of an area, you are no longer peaceful.

If you take over a building, prevent the owner from using it for their purposes, without their permission, that is breaking and entering. You are no longer peaceful. (would anyone on this list accept protestors commandeering their residence without permission?)

If you are issuing demand (implication of an “or else” even if not stated), rather than requesting, you are no longer peaceful.

Peaceful protestors demonstrate respect for those that they disagree with.

V/r

Alan Hawk

National Museum of Health and Medicine

From: Anthony Morreale via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 7:13 AM
To: Ben Quick <bnquick74@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Thank you for mentioning this, Ben. I would also like to add that the Zionist activists within academic departments have weaponized to Title IX instruments to the same ends. Threatening and reporting any student and faculty

who openly support the encampments or other pro Palestinian organizing.

There is also the “Canary list”, a doxing apparatus connected to Israeli intelligence which is consulted by Zionists embedded in hiring positions at major institutions and which is a threat to the career of any who voice opposition to the Israeli slaughter in Gaza, a massacre of some 40 thousand which is wholly funded by American taxpayers and institutions, our universities especially prominent among them. This is important context which explains why the activists wear masks: it isn’t covid or criminal intent. This Nation article is an excellent run down on the Canary Mission https://www.thenation.com/article/world/canary-mission-israel-covert-operations/tnamp/

The media and political class unity in framing of these protestors as aggressors has been completely psychotic.

Anthony Morreale

PhD Candidate

UC Berkeley

From: Ben Quick via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 12:02 AM
To: Thi Bay Miradoli <thibay.miradoli@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

When I hear people talking about the violence and militancy of these protests and how infected they are with anti-Semitism, I shudder. So far as I am aware—and I’m following closely—the only violence on any campus has occurred at the hands of police and counter protesters. At UCLA, police stood by and watched this happen. But I don’t think images of these violent counter protesters or police complicity are being broadly shared by American media. What is also not being broadly shared is that Jewish students and faculty make up a disproportionately large percentage of the pro-Palestinian protesters. I shudder because acts of anti-Semitism are something we need all take seriously, and when that word has been weaponized as a way of quelling dissent, it loses power, so in the future, when truly anti-Semitic violence occurs, it will not be taken seriously.

Ben Quick,

AUV

From: Thi Bay Miradoli via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 8:34 PM
To: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong <nguyenvo@humnet.ucla.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Really loving how UCLA is showing up!

I trust other professors on the list are as well. And I hope I did not come across as implying that nobody was.

What a pivotal (albeit tremendously difficult) moment for academia this is.

How powerful it is that the field of Vietnamese studies, beyond ethnographies, historical analysis and strategic war studies (among a wealth of other subjects) is informing the humane (and humanitarian) side of this very moment.

With gratitude and admiration for your courage.

Thi Bay Miradoli

Unaffiliated

New Jersey

From: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 5:27 PM
To: Dutton, George <dutton@humnet.ucla.edu>; Thi Bay Miradoli <thibay.miradoli@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Thi Bay,

Yes, those of us at UCLA have been out there with our students since the encampment went up, waiting with them for the police assault, and organizing nonstop since then for all the things George mentioned. We’ve also held many sessions with students, including Viet heritage students, to talk about how to support this movement and how to think about it in relation to Vietnamese history. But nothing seems enough, given students have been and continue to be at the receiving end of violence and continued repression.

Best,

T Nguyen-vo

UCLA

From: Dutton, George via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 5:07 PM
To: Thi Bay Miradoli <thibay.miradoli@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

If I may respond as a UCLA professor whose building directly faced the student encampment that was violently attacked and then equally violently dismantled by police in a bloody and disastrous crackdown. Indeed, the lingering presence of heavily armed police on campus made me think of Kent State and Jackson State (We’ve been holding our collective breath in fears that someone would be killed.)

Our faculty, especially in the humanities, strongly and unequivocally support our students and their rights to free expression and protest. We are also absolutely committed to holding the UCLA administration completely accountable for their grotesque actions. We’ve expressed this in department statements, in meetings, in an upcoming vote of no-confidence, in regular emails to our students, in bending over backward to accommodate them in every way possible as we struggle to get through the remains of an academic year that now hangs in tatters. I’ve told my students that I began protesting the war in Vietnam when I was five years old, have never stopped protesting injustice wherever it might be occurring, and have encouraged them to do the same if they are so moved.

George Dutton

UCLA

From: Thi Bay Miradoli via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 12:35 PM
To: Stephen Denney <srdenney@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear all,

if I may share my 2 cents with apologies for lacking the eloquence of many who have already contributed.

I find it interesting that contributors to the list are drawing parallels to their own views or experiences in Vietnam (from the antiwar movement to the re-education camps), however diverging. Isn't this the purpose of effective protest? To appeal to as many people as possible? To find shared values and goals among different communities? I think that instead of comparing this movement to the anti-Vietnam war movement, we could look at the evolution of student protest since Vietnam, the anti-apartheid movement and even the BLM movement (maybe not all started by students but definitively all embraced by large sections of the student population). The current protests are much more sophisticated in the sense that they further common threads across all of them from militarization/occupation, the unchecked power of political lobbies, divestment, forms of apartheid/violent neo-colonization. The way the police has violently responded to peaceful protesters denouncing the status quo versus the impunity for violent counter-protesters validate BLM grievances, the atrocities committed in Gaza and reminiscent of many of the atrocities committed in Vietnam and the characterization of the war as an Israeli-Hamas war despite it targeting the civilian population in both Gaza AND the West Bank (administered by the PA) is also reminiscent of some of the strategically inaccurate characterizations of the US war in Vietnam. The fact that many of the students (AND professors) protesting are being victimized by the police are Jewish, that many of the protests were initiated by Jewish organizations, that many of the families of the Israeli hostages are also calling for a ceasefire keep being grossly overlooked by both mainstream media and to some extent by some of the comments here. Even Holocaust scholars have taken positions in alignment with the student movement. Students are not just denouncing Neatanyahu's genocide, but geopolitical dynamics, very much perpetuated and enforced by the US, that re-create, maintain and justify violent and oppressive systems, be that My Lai Massacre, Apartheid South Africa, the murder of George Floyid and 75 years of an inhumane, apartheid state in Palestine.

What I think is pertinent to the listserve is all the lessons from, not comparison with, Vietnam and the anti-Vietnam War movement. I have come to realize in the last few months that the anti-war movement is not a thing of the past that ended at some point in time and/or stands in itself against which to draw comparisons. It was the beginning of an ongoing awakening, the creation of a framework for humanity to say killing babies for greed or territorial expansion is wrong, dehumanizing an entire people to justify geopolitical goals is wrong and finally this idea of American innocence that we so dearly keep trying to hold on to is a myth. And even without the draft, without Americans dying en masse on a distant shore (withstanding that some of the hostages are/were Americans and some killed in Gaza were also Americans), our consciousness has also evolved and we now understand that militarized, heavily biased, American police trained in Israel that terrorizes idealistic liberal arts students today is the same that terrorizes Black teenagers across the country, that saying that student protestors in the US are being infiltrated by terrorists is no different that south africa claiming the same about anti-apartheid advocates, that Natanyahu's war has a lot more to do with the lack of integrity of American leaders than we are led to believe.

Many of the list's contributors are professors. I beg you to listen to your students, to support them, to stand up against hostile university administrations. These students are putting their future on the line to do what we, the adults (me included) have been too cowards to do. Please follow Viet Thanh Nguyen on social media. He has been modeling courage for all of us. He was one of the first whose public engagement was cancelled for taking a pro-Palestine position. Believe a refugee (addressing non-refugees as I can't talk for refugees) whose life was marked by the American War in Vietnam and who can both agree with many of you AND stand with the students. You educate your students to be informed critical thinkers, to not be psychopaths unable of empathy when 13,000 children are massacred. Please support them when they live up to your teachings and guidance.

Thi Bay Miradoli

Unaffiliated

new Jersey

From: Thompson, C. M. via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 11:42 AM
To: Pierre Asselin <passelin@sdsu.edu>
Cc: Judith A N Henchy <judithh@uw.edu>; VietnamStudies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] VSG Administrative note

Dear Balazs,

Please please don’t unsubscribe! Like Pierre I always really appreciate your postings and I am sure that administrative note was not aimed just at you. People have gotten really bad about not signing their full name and institution and you never fail to do that.

Please stay with us!

warm regards

Michele

C. Michele Thompson
Professor of Southeast Asian History
Southern Connecticut State University

From: Stephen Denney via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 10:47 AM
To: Hoang Vu <hmv23@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

I was a college student in the late sixties and early seventies. I was not an activist but did march in some of the large anti-war demonstrations such as the moratoriums of 1969 and 1971, and various events on campus, including the last years of the war when speakers from the Indochina Mobile Project and Friendshipment gave talks.

Among the differences from today, first of all, we had the draft and were sending hundreds of thousands of American soldiers to Vietnam. So part of the antiwar movement involved resistance to the draft. Not wanting to go to Vietnam as soldiers was a major motivation for opposing the war. The "Vietnamization" of the war under Nixon decreased that factor.

At my campus, UC Santa Barbara, it was referred to as "The Movement", encompassing not just Vietnam but also ethnic rights, particularly for black Americans, and student rights. In my freshman year, the fall of 1968, a group of black students occupied a building where massive computers were located and threatened to destroy them unless their demands were met, the chief one I recall being for black studies to be taught and amnesty for their occupation. They left after a few days, and so far as I know no one was punished.

The moratoriums I attended in San Francisco were festive events, with a variety of speakers and popular rock groups and other entertainers. Some people carried the NLF or DRV flag, but mostly the unity was over opposition to American involvement in the war rather than supporting any particular cause.

At UCSB, along with campuses across the nation, the spring of 1970 brought much upheaval, at our campus we had three riots, the last one being a police riot.

But the campus organization most directly involved in these protests, the Radical Union, equivalent to Students for a Democratic Society, had at most fifty members on a campus of 15,000 students. Nationwide, I believe there was an ideological difference between the organizations that led the anti-war movement and the masses of youth who participated. However, there were also ideological divisions among the activists; for example, some supported the communist struggle in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia; while others (who tended to be pacifist) supported the "third force" movement in South Vietnam, of South Vietnam activists who opposed both political repression by the South Vietnam government and the totalitarian nature of the North Vietnamese government.

While American sentiment was shifting against the war, the campuses themselves became much quieter from the fall of 1970 on. The activism became more focused on working within our political system, such as campaigning for George McGovern and other anti-war candidates and lobbying Congress. By 1975, Congress was unwilling to continue supporting the noncommunist governments of South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. It is hard to imagine Congress abandoning Israel in the same fashion.

As for the current demonstrations, it is hard for me as a retired person living in the Texas panhandle to accurately assess them. But just from following the news and watching videos, my impression is that overall they are more militant and less tolerant, at least those who chant "from the river to the sea..", "globalize the intifada", while wearing masks or keffiyeh to cover all but their eyes; tearing down posters calling for the release of israeli hostages; and occupying and in some cases vandalizing buildings. Jewish students have said they feel intimidated by these protests and have testified to antisemitic behavior against them.

Another difference I noticed is that whereas very few Vietnamese were living in America during the war, with a few Vietnamese students participating in the anti-war movement; today many of the protesters are of Middle Eastern origin.

Like probably everyone here, I am appalled by the civilian toll from the Gaza Offensive as well as the Hamas attack of October 7. But I also think Israel is unfairly singled out as an "apartheid state" when the treatment of religious and ethnic minorities by Israel's neighbors is generally no better.

Steve Denney

UC Berkeley Indochina Archive and library cataloger, retired

From: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 9:48 AM
To: Pierre Asselin <passelin@sdsu.edu>; Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>; Judith A N Henchy <judithh@uw.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] VSG Administrative note

Dear Balazs and all,

I hope you don't unsubscribe, Balasz!

Best,

Thu-huong Nguyen-vo

UCLA

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Vsg <vsg-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Pierre Asselin via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 6:29 AM
To: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>; Judith A N Henchy <judithh@uw.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] VSG Administrative note

Dear Balazs:

I'm sure others on VSG will agree with me on this: PLEASE, do not unsubscribe. Your insights on all things Vietnamese are always profound and deeply appreciated. If this Gaza thread is being closed by Judy/VSG, it surely is not because of your own remarks -- which were highly pertinent to Vietnam.

And if my own words are insufficient to make you reconsider, then I hope that Rick Astley will set you on the right path. His wisdom is accessible here, retrieved from a top secret file I uncovered deep in the Vietnamese archives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjZpqDYBvng

Seriously, Balazs, remain a member of VSG. We're a better community of scholars thanks to you.

Pierre

Pierre Asselin

Professor of History - Dwight E. Stanford Chair in US Foreign Relations

San Diego State University

History Department

5500 Campanile Dr.

San Diego, CA 92182-6050

Latest Publications: Vietnam's American War: A New History, 2nd Edition & "National Liberation by Other Means: US Visitor Diplomacy in the Vietnam War" in Past & Present (https://doi.org/10.1093/pastj/gtad021)

"La médiocrité est un art; n’y excelle pas qui veut." –Daudet fils, selon Asselin père

"On va toujours trop loin pour les gens qui vont nulle part." –Pierre Falardeau

"You can't suck AND be lazy" –Jake Netzley, hockey buddy

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:44 AM Balazs Szalontai via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu> wrote:

Understood. Please unsubscribe my email address from the VSG email list.

Balazs Szalontai

Korea University, Sejong Campus

On Wednesday, 8 May 2024 at 17:07:23 GMT+9, Judith A N Henchy <judithh@uw.edu> wrote:

Dear VSG,

A reminder: Please sign your full name and position on your posts.

Regarding the current thread, which some have noted as tangential to Vietnam Studies, please make sure that your comments contribute substantially to the purpose of this list.

Thank you for your continued contributions to this scholarly community.

Best

Judith Henchy

VSG List Administrator

Judith Henchy, MLIS, Ph.D.

Head, Southeast Asia Section, University of Washington Libraries

Interim Head, International Studies

Special Assistant to the Dean of University Libraries for International Programs

Affiliate Faculty, Jackson School of International Studies

From: Hoang Vu via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2024 11:17 PM
To: Balazs Szalontai <aoverl@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Balazs,

While there were a significant number of student protestors in the 1960s supportive of the Vietnamese Workers’ Party and of Ho Chi Minh specifically, I have seen very little evidence of support for Hamas among student protestors today. Student movements in the West have historically leaned left to far left, and understandably find common cause much more easily with leftist movements like the VWP and the PLO (which is the significant Palestinian political entity closest ideologically and diplomatically to the Vietnamese Communists). It is naïve at best and intellectually dishonest at worst to allege without substantiation that the student protestors today are aligned with a theocratic, right-wing movement like Hamas, whose closest ideological equivalent in the region would be Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party and other right-wing parties in his ruling coalition. The closest historical Vietnamese political movements to Hamas on the political spectrum would be the candidacy of General Trần Văn Hương in the 1967 Republic of Vietnam Presidential Elections, or other right-wing parties in the State of Vietnam/Republic of Vietnam like the Đại Việt Quốc Gia Liên Minh & Việt Nam Dân chủ Xã hội Đảng. Confusing the nature of authoritarian movements on opposite ends of the political spectrum is the kind of mistake (intentional or unintentional) that the Bush Jr. Administration made when it invaded Iraq and executed the authoritarian socialist (Ba’athist) Saddam Hussein while insinuating that he had links with Al-Qaeda. All Bush did was to remove the main regional bulwark against the right-wing fundamentalist forces of the Islamic State, the Islamic Republic of Iran, and the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia.

While the present-day student anti-war movement is broad-based and contain a diversity of views, their common demands for ceasefire and economic divestment from the Israeli military-industrial complex are not ideological but humanitarian in nature and motive. The only political agenda that has broad support among the protestors is “Thawabit,” which was outlined in 1977 by the PLO and includes: the right to resistance against occupation (UNGA Res. 2625); the right to self-determination (UN Charter Article 1:2); Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine; and the right of return of Palestinian refugees. These are principles that have been diplomatically reconciled with Israeli counter-demands for security and sovereignty as part of the Oslo Agreements, which the U.S. helped broker, and are not by any means radical and are in accordance with widely accepted international laws and norms. Opposition to the war in Gaza, which has been condemned by the UN Reliefs and Work Agency for Palestine Refugees, for which the International Court of Justice has issued provisional measures to mitigate a high risk of genocide, and for which the International Criminal Court is considering indicting Israeli officials, should not be considered anti-Semitic, pro-Hamas, or even a radical position at all. It is a few Western countries’ steadfast support for Israel regardless of its immoral and illegal conduct that is unusual.

The arrest, criminalization, and suspension/expulsion of peaceful student protestors on American campuses today and in the 1960s have demonstrated that all states, regardless of professed ideology or political structure, are capable of and willing to violently suppress peaceful dissent. It is the one thing which the Vietnamese Communist Party, the First and Second Republics of Vietnam, the United States government, the Israeli government, the PLO, and Hamas all have in common. And it is the one thing that all intellectuals should be able to agree is wrong.

Hoang

From: Balazs Szalontai via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2024 4:47 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear All,

I have hesitated a lot whether I should join this discussion, but since in the recent ten years I have been increasingly immersed in modern Middle Eastern historical studies, I felt that it might be worth making some contribution. I do feel that there are some notable similarities between the situation during the Vietnam War and the current war in Gaza, with particular respect to the protests. In both cases, the protest narratives effectively conflated two overlapping but *not* identical entities: a nation (Vietnamese/Palestinians) and an inherently anti-democratic, illiberal, and violence-prone, yet widely supported political organization that claimed to be the sole legitimate representative of said nation (VWP/Hamas). In reality, neither the VWP nor Hamas was entitled to speak for *the* Vietnamese/Palestinian nation as such, since other political organizations and visions (in the Palestinian case, the various groups under the PLO umbrella, ranging from the moderate to the secular leftist ultra-radical) did exist. Yet both the VWP and Hamas enjoyed sufficiently wide support to create a situation that a massive, disproportionate, and indiscriminate military attempt to crush them inevitably brought much suffering on the civilian population living under their control, and that their strongest political rivals (the RVN government and Fatah) often found it difficult to present a more attractive alternative, all the more so because they were widely (and justly) perceived as corrupt authoritarians. Under such circumstances, a person committed to the principles of liberal democracy could hardly pick a side without some cognitive dissonance. Either one focused on the violence used by Team A (VC/Hamas terrorism), or focused on the violence committed by Team B (U.S./Israeli bombing), or resigned oneself to the hopelessness of the situation, and effectively adopted a passive stance toward the carnage. One possible way out of this cruel dilemma was to advocate a negotiated peace, but since both the VWP and Hamas strove for a total takeover, rather than a mutually advantageous compromise, this path was also effectively closed unless one disregarded their unwillingness to compromise.

Peace,

Balazs Szalontai

Korea University, Sejong Campus, Department of Saola Studies

From: David Marr via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2024 3:31 PM
To: Hawk, Alan J CIV DHA DHA R&E ACTIVITY (USA) <alan.j.hawk.civ@health.mil>
Cc: vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

It has been argued that Humphrey lost the 1968 election to Nixon because of the antiwar demos, but I doubt that. McGovern never had a chance in 1972, unfortunately.

Biden today would remember all this. He needs the youth vote, but can’t leave all the hard hats to Trump.

David Marr

ANU

From: Stephen Denney via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2024 12:12 PM
To: Nhan Ngo <nhan@temple.edu>
Cc: vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Should students demand divestment from other countries that systematically harass religious and ethnic minorities, such as Iran or Saudi Arabia? China? The United States? Vietnam?

Steve Denney

From: Nhan Ngo via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2024 8:12 AM
To: vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Vsg] [External] Re: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Ben and Stephen,

There is a reason for researchers to be aware of what we work for in the background. During Reagan's time I resigned from
a DARPA project.

I have waited for the motivation. So here it is. See https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/israel-gaza-war-bds
So there are legitimate reasons for demanding divestment from apartheid and genocidal regime of Israel. The students
were smart and wise.

Just a thought,
Nhan sorry for coming in to this thread late
Temple University

From: Ben Quick via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2024 8:27 AM
To: Stephen Denney <srdenney@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Again, Stephen, I have to disagree with you here. It seems to me the bloodshed in Gaza is the reason for the protests. It's possible that some commentators have tried to conflate the Gaza protests with BDS, and I'm sure there is a bit of organic overlap. Not substantial. I would bet my life that if Joe Biden were to come out tomorrow and state unequivocally that any military aid to Israel (and the new congressional aid package hasn't actually been disbursed yet) would be contingent on a ceasefire, student protesters would be ecstatic. He'd win the election in that moment. But the way he instinctively snarled "no," when he answered the question about whether the student protests would have any effect on his policy was ugly. So was the violence of the pro-Israeli counter-protesters storming the encampments at UCLA while police stood by and watched. It was reminiscent of Nixon's Hard Hat Brigade. As far as I am aware, the ceasefire protests and encampments on campuses have been almost entirely peaceful. Student leaders seem to have a very good understanding of the consequences of retaliation. If Biden loses the election, his combative attitude toward any suggestion of the legitimacy of a position the majority of Americans hold will be his undoing. It makes him look out of touch and lacking in empathy.

Best,

Ben

AUV

From: Stephen Denney via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2024 10:11 AM
To: Ben Quick <bnquick74@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Ben, my impression of the protests is that it is not just about the current Gaza offensive but about divesting in Israel. Like the Vietnam antiwar movement there are people with different perspectives involved. The videos we see of confrontations and occupations of buildings are more likely to backfire in terms of public opinion, such as ushering in a new Trump administration.

Steve Denney

From: greg nagle via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 9:07 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

The president of the SDS during the Columbia protests in 1968 is a good friend and he feels that the students harming Humphrey's chances may have cost him the election.

He now has a very sober and critical view of those anti war protests,

I offer that had Humphrey won, he would have brought the Vietnam war to an end much sooner although what this peace agreement would have involved is not clear to me,

But compared to Vietnam, the situation with Israel and the Palestinians looks much more difficult .

Having spent 6 months there long ago studying Israeli and Palestinian forestry programs, my feelings about the conflict are complex.

But I saw that back then the most incisive criticisms of Israel came from Israelis, things you rarely heard in the US. But the situation in 1987 was not nearly so bad.

This article offers some insights on Hamas now.

'I Asked Sinwar, Is It Worth 10,000 Innocent Gazans Dying? He Said, Even 100,000 Is Worth It'

Greg Nagle

PhD Forest and watershed Science, Cornell University

Hanoi Vietnam

From: Ben Quick via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 8:05 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Stephen,

I have to take issue with your third point quoted below. My perception is there are elected student governments (and student orgs to address this specific issue), but they have not been successful in convincing universities to make changes to policy. And I would say the administrations of these universities and donors are together a small number of people who do not represent the university as a whole, especially when it comes to support for the tactics we've seen employed to "evict" student protesters. And if we can rely on national polling averages, the majority of students (as the majority of Americans) are opposed to continued military action in Gaza. In speaking with those who were part of the campus anti-war movement during the conflict in Vietnam, I learned administrators almost universally engaged in dialogue with student protesters and did their best to avoid scenes like what we've witnessed at UCLA, Columbia, and elsewhere. Riot squads have been called in and rubber bullets used on protesters before the concerns of students have even been heard. This is antithetical to conflict resolution. Those in power usually get better results when those protesting what they feel is a misuse of that power feel heard. If no policy changes are made by the Biden administration, I see these protests going on for a long time. Many history books will be written comparing the Vietnam protests to the Gaza protests, and I see this as a logical reason to engage in this debate on this forum.

To be clear, I write this in the context of a good-faith disagreement.

Best,

Ben

AUV

"...if the protests are intended to get a university to divest from Israel, is there not an elected student government that could more properly address this issue? A few hundred demonstrators at a university like UCLA which has over 30,000 students doesn’t convince me that these demonstrators represent the students in general. And I doubt they will achieve their ends through this kind of protest."

From: David Marr via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 5:40 PM
To: Stephen Denney <srdenney@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

One lesson from the late 1960s Vietnam War demonstrations is that sustained smaller group organising must follow for the long haul.

David Marr

ANU

From: Stephen Denney via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 4:12 PM
To: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong <nguyenvo@humnet.ucla.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

My feelings, just from watching videos of some of the campus demonstrations, are first of all, the protests could be against the excesses of both sides, rather than identifying with the Palestinian struggle against Israel, and putting that cause on a pedestal. By all means, protest all the destruction and deaths caused by Israel in its current Gaza offensive. Secondly, don’t occupy buildings, particularly the library, that obstruct the functioning of the university. Thirdly, if the protests are intended to get a university to divest from Israel, is there not an elected student government that could more properly address this issue? A few hundred demonstrators at a university like UCLA which has over 30,000 students doesn’t convince me that these demonstrators represent the students in general. And I doubt they will achieve their ends through this kind of protest.

Steve Denney

Retired

From: Carl Robinson via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 5:01 PM
To: Hoang Vu <hmv23@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Hi everyone.

But what's missing in this discussion here & elsewhere more specifically about Vietnam is America's own intervention, involvement and ultimately desire for control wherever they go, truly ad nauseum. I personally saw this happen in South Vietnam with the seduction of many Vietnamese into the libertarian narrative and how disastrously that turned out, specifically with a world-wide diaspora of Vietnamese with each their own personal stories and experience. And America just keeps doing it. They intervene and don't even have to win a war, just leave the place a non-functional disaster zone with refugees pouring into Europe and the West and changing those societies for better and for worse. They slam the door, walk away and so there, gotcha! E.g. 20 years to normalise relations with Vietnam after '75. (Afghanistan awaits.)

I remember watching the anti-Vietnam War protests of the late '60's from Saigon and from personal experience was even more against the war and on a freight train to disaster. But my perspective was much more nuanced and especially political. I clearly saw the real US attitude towards the Vietnamese of pretending we were on a mission of freedom and democracy, vetoing their leaders and never allowing the political system to create a popular leader. I certainly would never have marched with those protestors. But then all those protests must've had some effect because for domestic political purposes, the Americans finally did just cut and run as we'll be commemorating again next Tuesday, 30 April. So, why does America keeps doing this?

Who knows how the coverage of the 50th anniversary will go next year, but i'm sure they'll be leaving a lot out.

Best regards,

Carl Robinson

Australia

USOM/USAID 1964/68; AP/Saigon '68-75.

From: Hoang Vu via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 4:13 PM
To: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong <nguyenvo@humnet.ucla.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Hi anh Alex Thai,

I, too, hope that the eventual end of the present conflict in Israel-Palestine will bring an administration that learns from the negative lessons of Vietnamese reeducation camps, and build an inclusive and reconciliatory path forward for their society, perhaps based on positive lessons from post-apartheid South Africa, post-civil war Liberia, and post-genocide Rwanda. I note that many of the boldest voices in support of the student protests in the US and the plight of the Palestinian people from the global Vietnamese community have come from Vietnamese-American intellectuals and community leaders, including Viet Thanh Nguyen and Evyn Le Espiritu-Gandhi, and Ocean Vuong, who are themselves refugees from post-1975 Vietnam. In part, they hope to contribute towards ending a war that has already produced too many refugees like themselves. From my own research on the reeducation camps, where I found that their brutality and failure were largely a result of post-1975 Vietnamese leaders replicating the violence that the communists faced during the Indochina Wars, I hope that present-day leaders become aware it will be extremely difficult to escape cycles of violence, that extreme violence now against Palestinians will likely lead to recriminations in the future.

In order to draw the above lessons from history, we cannot avoid drawing analogies between suitably similar historical events, qualified by an understanding of the contextual differences. If we take the nihilistic position that comparisons between student protests in 1968 and 2024 are “ahistorical”, despite the student protestors in 2024 directly referencing the 1968 protests as their inspiration, then we would not be able to see ever compare any two historical events at all and forgo our chances at learning lessons from history. A number of VSG members would need to shred their Comp Lit, Comp Politics, and indeed even History diplomas and look for new jobs. Our liberal arts education philosophy will need to be fundamentally overhauled. But that approach is neither productive nor practicable, and does not reflect how policy-makers, scholars, or the general public approach and use history. Humans naturally make comparisons, and, even when imperfect, they make them for good reason. It behooves us as scholars and thought leaders to make informed and qualified analogies with which we educate our students, leaders, and the public to effect positive change in our communities, rather than to shy away from contemporary debates and silo ourselves in our narrow interests.

The present events may also shed light on a number of issues that concern those of us studying Vietnam War history, too. For example, there is a long-running debate on whether the anti-Vietnam War student protests in the US were primarily driven only by the students’ selfish concern that they might be drafted to fight in Vietnam. While the current student protests cannot conclusively answer that question, they have demonstrated that students can be sufficiently driven by solidarity with an overseas population they consider oppressed and under threat, that they would altruistically sacrifice their time and risk their careers to demonstrate day and night, rain and shine in support of people they might never meet in a land they might never visit and about which they may only have a limited understanding, even when their own personal interests are not directly and immediately under threat. There may well be other insights like this that we can learn from the present conflict. So at the same time that I advocate for learning qualified lessons from the past, I also hope that we in Vietnamese Studies will actively engage with and learn from present-day events.

Hoang Vu

Columbia University & Fulbright University Vietnam

From: Nguyen-Vo, Thu-Huong via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 2:26 PM
To: Hoang Vu <hmv23@cornell.edu>; Alex-Thai Vo <alexthaivo@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Hoang, Alex, and all,

Thank you, Hoang, for the great resources! And thank you, Alex, for articulating the vexing complexity of the politics of the moment. I've long become reluctant to voice political opinions on this forum because our political debates too often polarize rather than generate true exchanges. But I feel what Alex thoughtfully raised so deeply, as both a scholar of Vietnamese Studies and a person coming from that tumultuous history with very personal stakes.

I too have grappled with the implications of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the past decades and since October 7th. I have also been at times uncomfortable with the frame of analysis focusing exclusively on tracing the idea of liberation in a straight-forward genealogy that includes prominently the Vietnamese anticolonial struggle, the Vietnamese revolution, and the Vietnam War. Of course there are connections, but in my mind, they are not so straightforward in warranting a rallying cry that can resound so ahistorically even as it lays claim to history across distant places. However, I also know I am distressed beyond words about the disproportionate devastation and death that the state of Israel has brought to bear on the Palestinians especially in Gaza. Of course, that doesn't mean a critique of Hamas' violence is not urgently needed. But strategically speaking, in the face of on-going mass killings and starvation, I choose to support those who speak against that kind of absolute brutality aided by the American government.

I am hoping this young movement is big enough to include many different political viewpoints and genealogies. So far, that is what I find in the student movement at my school. These young scholars and activists are so admirable in the care they take, and there is generally a willingness to think widely and relationally.

Students of Vietnamese heritage have also come to me to share how they must choose a position in this situation. I hope to think with these folks that we do not need to draw one genealogy, one line of connection, one frame of analysis. Rather than uncritically adopting a singular liberatory tradition based on masculinist sovereignty that excludes, represses, kills, or maims too many people, we can consider the potentials and problems of the nation-state in the context of Gaza and the West Bank. We can draw on long decades of feminist, Black, and other critiques in our understanding of our relations and connections to one another that do not disregard nor entirely obey past divisions or solidarities. For one, we can connect to the people in Gaza through empathy coming out of our refugee histories. There are so many other bases, so many lines of connection and descent, that can widen the range of political choices and considerations rather than narrow them with recriminations. Besides Gaza, there are so many catastrophes unfolding in the world today, on multiple continents. Tracing multiple relations seems pressing.

I'd love to hear more thoughts from you on this issue.

Respectfully,

Thu-hương

UCLA

From: Jerry Mark Silverman via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 1:17 PM
To: Alex-Thai Vo <alexthaivo@gmail.com>; Alex-Thai Vo via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>; Hoang Vu <hmv23@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear Võ --

I have not personally wanted to engage in this debate. But I must say your comments go directly to the heart of the current argument about the largely ahistorical connections between the lengthy histories of Viet Nam and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. So, thank you.

Jerry Mark Silverman

Independent Researcher

World Bank (ret.)

From: Alex-Thai Vo via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 12:00 PM
To: Hoang Vu <hmv23@cornell.edu>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Dear all,

I believe it's crucial, especially in times like these, to engage in thoughtful discussions among ourselves, with students, and others, and to share information.

Given the current circumstances and the approaching 49th and 50th anniversaries of April 30th, 1975, many of us will likely have various platforms to draw connections (or to provide hot takes) between historical events during the Vietnam War and contemporary developments in the Palestine-Israeli conflicts. However, it's essential that we approach these discussions with a clear conscience and consciousness, avoiding the easy equation of complex historical occurrences like the so-called Vietnamese revolution with challenging present-day struggles such as the Palestinian cause. Personally, I remain uncertain about the outcome of the Palestinian struggle, but I sincerely hope it will result in the best interests of both the Palestinian and Israeli people, and that it does not culminate in a "revolution" similar to the one in Vietnam that resulted in the imprisonment of hundreds of thousands and the exodus of millions, many of whom perished in dense jungles and on treacherous seas, without acknowledgment from the regime that such revolution helped establish.

Sincerely,
Alex-Thái Đình Võ

Alex-Thái Đình Võ, Ph.D.

Assistant Professor
The Vietnam Center and Archive

Texas Tech University
alextvo@ttu.edu or
alexthaivo@gmail.com

From: Hoang Vu via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 4:22 PM
To: Nhu Miller <trantnhu@gmail.com>
Cc: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Hi Nhu,

There are many excellent scholarly works that draw direct connections between the Palestinian struggle for freedom and the Vietnamese revolution. I can recommend three books and one article from just among my circle of friends and colleagues, though I suspect there may be many others out there (please feel free to add to this list):

1. My colleague in History at Columbia University, Paul Thomas Chamberlin (some of you may know him as the husband of Lien-Hang T. Nguyen), wrote the textbook on the Palestine-Vietnam connection back in 2012, highlighting that both the US and PLO drew many direct lessons and inspirations from the Vietnam War: https://a.co/d/4UAfgyd

2. Evyn Le Esperitu-Gandhi, who teaches in Asian-American Studies at UCLA and who might be a VSG member, published an excellent book in 2022 on the resettlement of Vietnamese refugees in the 1970s and -80s in Guam and Israel-Palestine, and critically examines their complicity in settler-colonialism in both territories and the prospects for “decolonial solidarity between refugee settlers and Indigenous peoples”: https://a.co/d/hsCODTr

3. Brian Cuddy, a former Fred Logevall student at Cornell who is now teaching History at Macquarie University, has co-edited an open-access volume in 2022 with Victor Kattan that traces how the conflicts in Vietnam and Palestine have together shaped the laws of war: https://muse.jhu.edu/book/112612

4. I can also recommend the following long-form article in Al Jazeera, for which I was interviewed, that talks in-depth about the past and present connections between Palestine and Vietnam, including the history of Palestinian diplomatic support for Vietnam during the Third Indochina War and Vietnam’s complicity in being a major customer of Israeli arms today: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/longform/2024/3/30/gaza-war-reminds-vietnam-of-liberation-struggle-once-shared-with-palestine

In February, I was among the speakers at a teach-in co-hosted by the Columbia Vietnamese Students’ Association that drew connections between student activism on campus in 1968 then and now; and on Monday, the History Department is hosting another event commemorating the 1968 student demonstrations on the Columbia campus. These events are timely because the student demonstrators at Columbia today are drawing direct inspiration from the 1968 protests, as evidenced in their very first Instagram post announcing the Gaza Solidarity Encampment: https://www.instagram.com/p/C53FygbOs7y/

I suspect that there are many other academic publications and events connecting the Indochina and Palestine-Israel conflicts. I would love to learn more about these resources from other interested members.

Hoang Minh Vu

Visiting Associate Research Scholar, Weatherhead East Asian Institute, Columbia University

Faculty Member in History & Vietnam Studies, Fulbright University Vietnam

From: Nhu Miller via Vsg <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 3:24 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vsg] Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Please ignore previous CNRS email that has to do with

GAZA and not Viet Nam.

T.T. Nhu

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 3:14 PM Nhu Miller <trantnhu@gmail.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mundy,M <M.Mundy@lse.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 12:42 PM
Subject: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed
To: Mundy,M <M.Mundy@lse.ac.uk>

This petition now seeks support from academics/researchers outside France. Martha

From: lamya.khalidi@univ-cotedazur.fr <lamya.khalidi@univ-cotedazur.fr>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 18:53
To: lamya.khalidi@cnrs.fr <lamya.khalidi@cnrs.fr>
Subject: Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Reminder

Academics call on the CNRS - Higher education and research in Gaza destroyed

Please sign the petition below and forward...

The petition is open to all in academia and is now in English.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfZc_IH0Cj7J92wYEqy9m4WLw7rjY4yUPIyqDUq2wgoaEZK1A/viewform

Thank you

Lamya KHALIDI

CNRS Researcher in prehistoric archaeology of Africa and the Middle East