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From: Daniel C. Tsang <dtsang@uci.edu>
Date: 2008/11/27
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
FYI:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/243197,mass-graves-near-us-prison-camp-discovered-in-vietnam.html
Mass graves near US prison camp discovered in Vietnam
d
Daniel C. Tsang
Social Science Data Librarian
Bibliographer for Asian American Studies,
Economics, Political Science & Business (acting)
468 Langson Library
University of California, Irvine
PO Box 19557
Irvine CA 92623-9557
USA
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From: Janet Hoskins <jhoskins@usc.edu>
Date: Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 12:16 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Dear List,
The news of these mass graves discovered near a "US prison camp" should be evaluated with some caution. The prison camp concerned, which I visited in 2006, was built by the French, and used by the Republic of South Vietnam during the period of US military intervention but it was then also used by the current government of Vietnam for the "re-education" of thousands of South Vietnamese, some of whom I have spoken to about their experiences Given this history, it is not all clear that the prisoners buried there were necessarily killed during the second Indochina war, as many of them may have died afterward, due to harsh prison conditions imposed by the victors.
I doubt that International Red Cross observers were stationed there in the post 1975 to report on the conditions of the postwar prisoners, but I wonder whether the psychics used by the Vietnamese government can provide reliable dates for all the atrocities which occurred at that site. It will indeed to interesting to see what is revealed if excavations provide evidence to identity all those bodies. But i doubt that the full information will be released to the public.
Janet Hoskins
Anthropology
University of Southern California
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From: william turley <wturley@siu.edu>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Yes, many deaths were random, and so, often, was treatment of the dead. I think it was Neil Davis (legendary Ozzy cameraman to newbies) who told me of following an ARVN operation that ended in the capture of a nameless hill. After the battle ended, the ARVN "buried" 200 PAVN bodies by digging a ditch with a bulldozer, which then pushed the bodies into it. No effort was made to gather identifying documents or to record where the bodies were buried. Considering the number of battles and the constraints of time and incentive to care for enemy bodies, this could hardly have been an isolated incident.
William S. Turley
Dept. of Political Science
Southern Illinois University
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From: Vietnam Indochina Tours <info@indochinatours.com>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I am surprised that they were buried at all; during my service with ARVN they were simply left to the elements or for their comrades to find and attend to at a later date. The only data produced relating to the bodies were operational reports which listed the date and grid coordinates of the battle.
Courtney Frobenius
Olympia, WA
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From: Christoph Giebel <giebel@u.washington.edu>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: Vietnam Indochina Tours <info@indochinatours.com>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
List -- Let's be careful with terminology: the "Republic of South(ern) Viet Nam" was associated with the NLF's Provisional Revolutionary Government in the late 1960s to mid-1970s. Janet Hoskins likely refers to the "Republic of Viet Nam," the Sai Gon-based state claiming authority over all of the country. Apologies for sticklerism -- C. Giebel, UW-Seattle
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From: Hue-Tam Ho Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
And sometimes, even their own side did not know their names. Here is Ngo Thao, writing about the battle of Quang Tri: "The new recruits came in at dusk. They were dead by dawn. No one had time to check where they were from, of who was their commander...No one could count how many lives were lost." in David Ignatius, "Vietnamese begin to question if war was worth sacrifices," Washington Post, Nov. 12, 1991.
But I think that Janet's point is a bit different. The site was used by multiple "authorities" and thus the dead may have died under different regimes, for different reasons.
Hue-Tam Ho Tai
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From: Vietnam Indochina Tours <info@indochinatours.com>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Also very worthwhile mentioning on this subject is Bao Ninh's "The Sorrow of War" in which he describes the "Screaming Souls Jungle," his search for bodies after the end of the war.
Courtney Frobenius
Olympia, WA
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From: jkirk <jkirk@spro.net>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: Vietnam Indochina Tours <info@indochinatours.com>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Is this a film? on DVd? any website for it? Eng. subtitles?
Thanks in advance, Jo Kirkpatrick
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From: Vietnam Indochina Tours <info@indochinatours.com>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: jkirk <jkirk@spro.net>, Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
"The Sorrow of War" is a book by a former NVA soldier who was one of the ten survivors of his 500-man brigade from 1969 through 1975. The task fell to him to retrace, along with graves registration teams, the campaigns of his regiment after the war to identify the places where the bodies of his comrades lay, to collect the skeletal remains, and transport them for burial.
Bao Ninh lives, at least to the last of my knowledge, in Hanoi. He is married with two children and suffers from PTSD. His book received wide distribution in Vietnam and he came under the scrutiny of the state.
The English addition I have is by Riverhead Books, Published by the Berkeley Publishing Group, NYC, 1996.
Courtney Frobenius
Olympia, WA
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From: Mike High <mike.high@earthlink.net>
Date: 2008/11/28
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Of related interest, “Prisoner of the Word: A Memoir of the Vietnamese Reeducation Camps” by Le Huu Tri, includes a chapter or two on his time at the Phu Quoc reeducation camps in 1976 (he mentions several camps on Phu Quoc).
He mentions overwork, malnutrition, and a man being seriously injured when the prisoners were forced to clear a minefield. He doesn’t mention regular executions of the sort that were described by Andrew X. Pham as occuring at his father’s prison near Rach Gia (Catfish and Mandala; Eaves of Heaven).
:: Mike High
Great Falls, Virginia
USA
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From: Janet Hoskins <jhoskins@usc.edu>
Date: Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 1:48 PM
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Yes, Hue-Tam is right about my point: The article was written in a tone which suggested "new revelations of US war atrocities", and while some atrocities did happen, the history of this site is complex, and it is not at all clear that mass graves would be the victims of US armed forces.
At least one of the Phu Quoc prison camps (the one at Nha Lao Cay Dua, just north of An Thoi) is now open to tourists. None of the information made available to the public, however, mentions its use as a re-education camp as well. This is a part of history which is erased from the current transcript presented to foreign visitors.
Janet
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From: william turley <wturley@siu.edu>
Date: 2008/11/29
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
I think everyone understood Janet's point, hence the citing by other listers of war deaths resulting from non-U.S. action. Her excellent point also reminded me (having just returned from a trip to Vietnam after a long absence) of how abundant are other examples of the "current transcript." They're on display in museums, battlefields, guided tours, cemeteries, monuments, posters, signboards -- you name it -- across the country. Searching for this transcript in these places, and for deviations from it (mostly accidental, I suspect), was one of the larger pleasures of my trip. Someone could do a study....
Bill Turley
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