Roy Cousins

Roy Cousins

"I came into the business very very young, I was singing with older men than me.

So I really get involved in it."

Who was listening too in in the fifties?

"Jamaican or foreign?"

Both

"Locally when \i was living at Flint Crescent, and still going to school. Winston Francis was living behind me. And he had the group The Sheridans. And Jamaica is a yard country. Its not an indoor country like England. It's an hot country. Every house inn Jamaica have a back yard and a front yard. So my back yard join on to #Winston's back yard."

And there is plum tree at my back yard. And I used to sit by it and listen to the harmonies.. And that was my first real close encounter with the harmonies. And there was a guy in the Sheridons named Brado. Pat Kelly was in the Sheridons."

Yeah man, #The Sheridons was Winston Francis, Pat Kelly, a guy named Sperry and Brado.,And me and Brado became friends. And in those days the groups used to tour the clubs. And the Sheridons used to link up with other groups. And in those days, and when I used to talk to Brado. In those days, the groups would have a tenor, 1st and 2nd Tenor and a baritone. The group were well balanced."

Brano used to tell me about competitons between him and Norris Weir from The Jamaicans. And that used to fascinate me. And I used to listen to the Drifters. The Drifters was one of the most popular groups in Jamaica. And The Sheridons once did a show with the Original Drifters at The Carib. And The Sheridons sing them up!

How I get involved was that there was a guy called Lloydie. Have you heard of a guy called Scorcher?

Yes he's in America now I believe.

Well I know him from the Church. And my Auntie Melva. She inspired me. Whenever the church was singing - she always encourged me to get up on the stage. And I met Scorcher at the Church and then we formed a group while we was singing at the church. And then I met Lloyd - Lloydie.

Can you remember |Lloydie's second name?

I can't remember his name.

"He was a taxi driver if I remember and he introduced me to Harry. So we just started the Royals. We were nowhere the standard of The Sheridons, if you understand me. We were just starting out. So I was living at Finch Crescent, and that was when I met Prince. My mother rent a room from his Grandfather. And it was then that I encountered the Tartans.

Cidric Myton, Prince Lincoln, Devon Russell...So I leave school and start work at the New Yorker garment factory. Which was my first job. And I was working on Shirts. And two guys were working on pants on the other side...Trevor McFarland, and Keith Smith.Not the Keith Smith - who is Slim Smith, another guy. 

So when I was working at New Yorker,these two guys used to sing harmonies all day!

If you learn harmony....they learned at 'Cabler' Most of the horns men learn horns at Alpha School. 

So me Lloyd and Harry used to sing. We never got nowhere near the harmony of those men. In the end, I was learning...and I was singing with bigger man than me. And I decide to revolutionise the group and dropped Lloydie. And I bring in Trevor McFarland and I wanted to bring Super too, but Super never wanted to come at the time.

And what year was this Roy?

I started singing at School actually. Me and some school friends I can't remember there names. And we enter the festival song for children. We had to audition at the Little Theatre up by Up Park Camp. I formed a group with my class mates. It was me Alric Forbes and Gillian Burnett.

But in those days....if people understand Jamaican music, Jamaican music was very very professional in the early days. Far more so than these days. You must have heard about Veve Johns?

Of course.

When my first group auditioned at the Little Theatre we got knocked back. Competion was stiff.  It was after that , that me meet Lloyd. The school thing was just a thing, as school friends - you understand me? But for some reason I was into groups singing. I was never a one man singer.

You see I don't know my father, I never have a Father. I never call a man Father from the day I born. My mother grow me, along with Auntie Melva. And it was more of my Auntie Melva who shaped my life. To what it is today, because she had more time for me, than my mother. My mother was always working."

Anyway when I dropped Lloydie out of the group, Super should have come in. But Trevor knew a guy called Errol Green. Trevor lived Duhanay Park, that's where Tubby's lived. And Earl Morgan and Barry Llewelyn. And Joe Gibbs have a studio over there.

Trevor brought this brilliant singer named Errol Green, and he also bring a professional guitarist. And that was the real start of The Royals.

The guy with the guitar was a Jazz guitarist.

Who was it Roy?

Can't remember, but he used to come with Trevor. And Errol and they used to rehearse with me and Harry.And another guy that used to come with them, was Prof He used to work with The Tennors. And they all used to come and get the bus down by me and rehearse. Prof really wanted to sing with The Royals. And then he leave we, and he formed the Tennors.

Anyway we knock about, and we went to see Prince Buster.

The tunes you did for Prince Buster - were they ever released?

So many tunes that we did along the way.....I can't tell you what happened to them. We have a catalogue of tune. We did some tunes for Buster down at Federal.

And what was the year Roy?

Prince Buster                                                                                        Joe Gibbs

Early sixties. So the Tartens used to come an reheare in the evening time. So that tune 'Dance All Night' We actually reheased it. So they went down to Federal before we.

You must have heard about the story when we was at Federal.

The Tartens were connected to the Pigeon gang. Prince Lincoln, Devon Russell, and

Prince were part of the Pigeon gang. And Cydric Myton was part of a gang called 'The Sweetest'  so that tune came out and was big. So we went down to do a audtion for Federal and we get selected.

And we was recording this called 'House On The Hill'  We was inside singing. And I remember Ernest Rangling was on the session. Gladdy was also on the session. And the next thing we know was that all hell broke out in Federal!!!

Ken Khouri run in and said stop the session stop the session. And we must leave the studio. What happened was that Prince Lincoln and Devon Russell - had brought the Pigeon gang on we - into the studio. Prince Lincoln was saying that 'House On The Hill' was similar to 'Dance All Night' Anyhow, Gladdy wasn't pleased and him and Ranglin walked away. 

So afterward Gladdy said to me come to Duke Reid to do an audition....

Gladdy was the man who do audition for Duke, on a Sunday. In them days it was a roadblock. All the men from all over Jamaica came to audition on a Sunday. So there was a little side door beside the Liquor Store which Duke owned. And the door was cut in two.And Gladdy used to sit behind the door an open the bottom half of the door. And he used to push his head out and say next. In those everyman was nervous to go in. In those days it was one take - the recording. And you had to do well. If you made a mistake, you have to start again. And if they sing to Gladdy "Ahh Ahh Ahh" Gladdy run them out - and say next. They just had a few seconds. It can put you off and make you nervous. And the competion was stiff. So what used to happen was that if Gladdy turned you down man used to walk deh so and go to Coxsone.

Duke used to do auditions starting at 9-10 am in the morning. And Coxsone used to audition from about 1-2pm. So if Gladdy turned you down, All roads lead to Studio One. So when we got into to sing for Gladdy he said we are crisp. If you got turned he would say come back in three months time.  Or even six months time . And when you get selected your misery never end!!!

When we recorded for Buster, it took four days before we was record. Anyway at Duke Reid we asked by Tommy McCook to come upstairs to the studio. I remember when we get selected we get selected by the Melodians and Paragons. That song that we sing for Duke -'We Are In The Mood' The Melodians did 'Come On Little Girl'. In those days you had to do two tunes - A side and B side. Dub had not come in yet. Any producer that select you - if he liked one tune - you had to have a b.side song.

When we did record Trevor McFarland was exempt from The Federal episode. He was the lead singer at the time for the Royals. So the day we recorded for Duke - Trevor never come. So it was me, Harry and Errol who voiced the two tunes. I never had the experience of what we have today. So there was a gap in the harmony. Those tunes didn't come out at the time. So then we leave and go to Studio One.

So when we went to Studio One, it was Lee Perry who did the audition. So Perry turned us down. And then we go down a Matador. And Matador select about two tunes. And he loved the group so much he said he was going to look after the group. So he sent us to rehearse with Boris Gardiner. In those days Boris Gardiner was the bass man down at Duke Reid. Jackie Jackson hadn't come in yet. So we went to Borid Gardiner yard to rehearse. And then Matador booked Federal Studio because Federal was the top studio of its day. And we go down and do '100 Pounds Of Clay' and 'Bus Them Shut'  He put them out on a pre-release. And then we don't hear about them tunes them. It took me twenty years before me hear them again. By then I was working at the Post Office. And I meet Winston Edwards and he used to do shows for 'Canada Dry' the drinks company.They were the sponsor for the shows that Edwards was doing. And he used to keep shows around the island. And he get we to go on the shows. He became manager for the group - and he said alright lets record the group.

And at the time him and Joe Gibbs were good good friends. And he came to one day and said he wanted to record the group urgently. So I round the group - and go over to Gibbo's shop. He had taken over Scratch's shop. At Charles Street. What happened was that Gibbo was recording the Pioneers. And Gibbo and the Pioneers fall out.

So was that after they left Beverley's or before the left?

"They went to Beverley's after Gibbo, It was Gibbo first. They had a good tune for Gibbo and it sell. I think Gibbo want us to do 'Bus Them Shut' for him. In those days people had tunes to counteract each other. And Lee Perry left Gibbo - they fall out it was then that he made 'People Funny Boy'. So Gibbo come and bring us to do 'Never See Come See' Gibbo had the tune so we could sing it like The Pioneers.So Gibbo wanted us to sing 'Never See Come See' its a tune against the Pioneers. Gibbo was saying it was him who put them on top. 

"We put the tune together, and him never have studio yet. So he booked Studio One the following day."

That is very interesting, people know that Harry J and Harry Mudie recorded at Studio One, but I don 't think people know that Joe Gibbs recorded there.

"So we do, 'Never See Come See' and 'Only For A Time' for the B-Side. And then he started to use The Royals for harmonies for other artists. 

And who would that be Nicky Thomas....

"Yeah, Nicky Thomas, he came through The Royals. When I moved to 16 Rear Road - and Errol Wilson come into the group. Errol Green leave we bring in .......Nicky Thomas was living at 18 Rear Road, and Bobby Kalphat was living at Errol Wilson mother's place she had three big rooms and we used to rehearse in the end room. And Bobby Kalphat rent the first room from her.. And he had a piano on the veranda. So we all used to come together and rehearse. And with Nicky Thomas living next door - he just used to hop over the fence. And Bobby Kalphat and Harry used to rehearse a lot with Nicky. And Nicky got to audition with Gibbo. And when he passed the audition for Gibbo - he come back and he tell we - and we congratulate him. 

One day me and Errol go ask Joe Gibbs for payment for all the work we do for him. And he fling five pound to we, Jamaica in those days was still in pounds shillings and pence. He fling five pounds to we - and say "You love money too much." And Gibbo never spoke to me again from that day. And when it came to 'Only For A Time' he released it as the Pioneers.. And it was Ping Wing who work at SRD who told me about the tune. So when I did the tune over, I never knew the tune was ever released by Gibbs. Its on a Pioneers album. 

It was done at Studio One, Coxsone was the only one who had a proper Hammond Organ..So It sound familiar - and the more I listen, I knew it was our tune.

What happened in those days was that the producer recorded the artist and then say they don't release the tune. And due to we nah come a foreign we don't know. It's only when someone who knows tells you about these things that you know.  And even when a producer does release the tune - the don't promote it. 

And after all of this, I thought it was time for me to do the production for myself.  You know I did about ten tunes for Studio One, it wasn't just 'Pick Up The Pieces'. When it first came out, I wasn't even sure that it was me who sing it!

There is so much to talk about. I don't know if you know of guy called Alphonso Bailey?

Of course Globe Records

Him, well he used to work for Dynamics, and because I press at Dynamic, me and Bailey became friends. And it was Bailey that introduce me to Yabby U. Bailey was looking after him. And Yabby had been sick and was in hospital and had just came out. And he was told he had only six months to live. And so everyone decided to help him - due to him having only six months to live.

And then his only source of earning was a Race Course tout. They would give you a horse race tip, and if it wins - they would come back and ask you for some money. 

So he started to come down at evening time, when we rehearse - and I used to give him half of my dinner. And slowly he became interested in the music. He started to beg producer record. And he used to go around and sell it.

Striker Lee gave him a lot of record, and Yabby U became a brillant salesman! He could sell record better than anyone else. He used to go out into the country. And on the Gullybank in Jamaica - a load of artists came from there - Bobby Melody, Gladiators. The Abbysinians me and Bernard went to school together. We were in the Scouts together as well. The 'Dove' troop.  The Dove label was the patch that we used to wear on our uniform.

Me and Bernard used to knock around together, Lloyd Parks, Fish Clarke, Patrick Alley, loads of them guys went to ...................... Primary. So Yabby U decided to come into the business. And Family Man, it was him who made the rhythm. Family Man played everything on that rhythm. Except the brass - that was Bobby Ellis. So we said alright then we will do the harmonies for him. We go to Lee Perry to voice them. And it was we who do the harmonies on 'Run Come Rally' 'Carnel Mind'. If you listen to 'Conquering Lion' It was me who put it together. But those four tunes. - it was the Royals who put harmonies on it. 

Yaaby U

And they were the tunes that made Yabby.

Can you tell me more about the origins of the Wambesi label?

"Well we was recording for most producers in Jamaica, and we were not getting anywhere. And I was working at the Post Office. That was my source of income. And I had forty dollars in my bank account. Forty Jamaican dollars. I wanted to book a session with the forty dollars - and it wasn't enough. So a guy who used to work with me at the Post Office - David Robinson. He said he would come in with me."

And this is not the Dave Robinson - the Singer/El Speedway label?

"No, well my first label was the Uhuru label. This was before Black Uhuru. So we booked the Studio, Dynamics. And buy the tape. And we go a Dynamic. We did 'Pick Up The Pieces' and 'Down Comes The Rain' and we also do a tune with Devon Russell names 'Chances Are'."

Can you remember the musicians?

Well Harry, who sing with the Royals was on bass. Phil Callender was on drums, Geoffrey Chung was on rhythm guitar, Robbie Lyn play organ, and Lloyd Charmers piano.  Sticky was on it too, on percussion. And I said I would give them the balance of the money, when i got paid on Friday. And on Friday - there they were all waiting - Charmers all of them!!!! I collected all of my wages and give it all to them, my family had nothing that week."

And Jackie Bernard - he became my first salesman. And when he leave it was Danny Clarke of the Meditations who started to sell the records for me."

And these records were they on Wambesi?

"No, they were on Uhuru, and then me and Dave Robinson go our different ways, I give him some of the rhythms. And him formed the Diamond label, with Jah Lloyd. My second label now was the Tamoki label. So I met I Roy and I Roy said he liked the rhythm (Pick Up The Pieces) and he wanted to do something on it. And so I Roy did 'Monkey Fashion'. And with 'Chances Are' Devon Russell never voiced that rhythm. Me and him ended up in an argument. We always argue!!! He wanted to voice first. And so he walk away. So I just make the tune, 'Ghetto Man' so I write the lyrics for it. And voice it.

So how did you come up with the name Tamoki?

For some reason - I always married an Indian woman, my two wives were Indians. And I was reading a book one day, and Tamoki was some great Indian chief in America. 

And Wambesi?

"One day I meet Michael Rose at the bottom of .................Road, And he said to me he liked the label Uhuru. And he asked if he could use the name. I said just use the name. And I won't use it. So then I went to the 'Phantom' comic - and found the name Wambesi. And the first tune on the label was 'Sufferer Of The Ghetto' followed by 'Ghetto Man' 

One of the great early tunes on Wambesi was ' Make Believe' and yet the first cut

Of wasn't your production?

"Jack Ruby was my friend, we used to go and visit Ochi and visit Jack. Anyway at the time Ruby fall out with Burning Spear. The tune 'Make Believe' its not me who write it. Jack Ruby write it for Burning Spear. And he said to me now to come and record that tune for him. He give me the lyrics on a piece of paper. And we rehearse the tune. And he some musicians at the time The Black Disciples. So he took the Black Disciples to Channel One to do the tune. We do two tunes for Ruby. And Jack couldn't read. And when do the tune Ernest at Channel One - call me into the control room at Channel One and he say "The riddim not right" Anyway Jack said voice the tune. I said alright, and I never hear anything about the tune again. So cause we never hear nothing about - we make it over."

And where did you do it Roy?

"At Channel One, Sly Dunbar and Robbie Shakespear. And then Ernest call me at the end of this session - and say the bass too deep, he can't mix it. And when I went to see Robbie to ask him to play back the bass again, he refused. "

It had a fantastic horn arrangement on that tune

"That was Tommy McCook and Bobby Ellis, and when I release the tune - if you look on the  Wambesi 7" you will see the songwriting credit is Jack Ruby."