Dennis Alcapone - Foundation DJ

"At that time, before I did a record. Trinity now, he used to imitate me a lot, before he went on record. He used to follow my sound. And then Dillingerwent to record for the Upsetter. I can remember the first day, cause I was there, Lee Perry had him doing a whole heap of tape, just keep running and running, and there was no hit come out of it."

Didn't he use a bit of it on the 'Blackboard Jungle' album?

"Yeah, I remember it, but I said why is he doing so much record, because there wasn't a deal, but you know, Dillinger wanted to get inside the business. Scratchsaid, "Go on then, go inside the studio, working, working. One tape after the other. And you know, I think he done about twenty tune that night (laughs)."

"Well anyway the changes now: Dillingerwas adapting to Big Youth's style. After U.Roy there was me. In all there was three DJs that come out of Jamaica, three different styles. U.Roy's, my style and Big Youth's style. I.Roy imitated U.Roy; Dillinger, Trinity, imitated Big Youth right."

I don't think you've been imitated yet?

"There was a guy who called himself the Young Capone, You see the cross over, a touch of me, a touch of U.Roy, a touch of Big Youth."

Some styles are more difficult to copy than others. Your style was more skillful.

"A lot of people try to imitate, right they sound stupid in a sense."

Did you have any influences, when you started deejaying? What DJ's were about when you started with El Paso?

"When I started U.Roy was and still is my number one DJ, right. And there was this guy named Pampado who played a sound named Kentone."

Would that be Prince Pampado of 'Money Can't Buy Life' fame?

King Tubby (Photo Beth Kingston)

That's good deejaying.

"Well after a while it did get monotonous, cause at one time, I didn't know where all these DJ's come from It really marvel me as well, because when I left Jamaica, come over here. I left, Big Youth, U.Roy, U.Roy Jnr, Shorty The President."

"I left in 1973, went back over, come back in 1974, with Sly, Dennis Brown, Skin Flesh & Bones, the Maytals - The Jamaican Showcase. Went back to Jamaica, come back in '75, then I didn't leave until last year. There's a lot of things on. Like for instance the new DJ's come up, cause you see what really make a DJ is practice on sound system. You have to be accepted by the people as a sound system DJ before you can be any good on record. With a lot of these DJ's it's just a hustling thing, they don't have a root."

How about Mikey Dread, what do you think of him?

"Well Mikey is a radio DJ, it's something new. They have never gone so roots before. Until he came along. He's less talking and more of the rhythm. Like I was saying there was four DJ's - U.Roy was playing King Tubby's. I was playing El Paso, Big Youth - playing Tip-A-Tone. This is the background. Dillinger did stand in for me. So he still get his practice. A lot of them they just...You had a few producers who just get into the studio and talk. And called themselves John Brown or Tom Stroke or something. You know what I mean."

"For instance, at one stage you had vocalists deejaying as well. Jamaica is based upon one thing: As long as there is a living, everyone would get involved. If a record is selling you see a certain amount of people go into the studio to make the same record. They say they're riding a bandwagon."

So all this brought the music down?

"Right, right that's it. You have some DJ's, I won't call any names, but how they sell, I don't really know. That's the thing about DJ records, you have so many amateurs that don't really have the feeling for the record, don't write their lyrics, and make it make more sense before they go into the studio."

How much time did you spend on your lyrics?

Duke Reid - Photo: Unknown.

"Well I was working with Keith Hudson."

Was your first record 'Spanish Amigo'?

"No it was my first hit. 'El Paso' was my first record, it was the name of the sound. And that's how I used to get the lyrics together. It was record, but it wasn't on record. It was a craze going around with the kids - "One Time, El Paso, One Time."

"Well, Keith Hudson wanted me to do it for him, but the rhythm he had, he already had some rhythm he had recorded with Delroy Wilson. 'One One' and Ken Boothe's 'Old Fashioned Way' in that period of time."

"'El Paso' was done on a rhythm that was not for the tune. The rhythm for it was a special rhythm, a Duke Reid rhythm - 'You Don't Care' by the Techniques. It was a different bass line, so people still go out and buy it. So you can imagine if I done it on the proper rhythm. 'Spanish Amigo' went to No.6 in the charts. I was recording in my real name at the time, Dennis Smith, I left and went to Coxsone, and did another version."

Did he approach you - Coxsone?

"No, you see, Coxsone had some rhythm that I like for a long time. Duke Reid also had some rhythm that I like for a long time, but U.Roy was Duke Reid's stable. So I just go by Coxsone. Well, I went up there and I did 'Nanny Version'. Well, when I did that one, I just ask him to call me Dennis Alcapone, cause that was my nickname back home really. So he used that, and that an instant hit. Most people think it was U.Roy, even Duke Reid himself! Because Duke Reid called me and asked me if U.Roy help me do the record. I said no, he said "Yes mon, U.Roy help you do it". I said no.

"I can remember going on a bus one day, a week after the record came out, no, it wasn't a bus, a pick up truck. And some guys was in it, and they didn't know me really. So one of them said to the other one - 'Did you hear the new U.Roy record?' The other one said no. So the first one said 'Yes man, U.roy have this bad record out 'Nanny Version' man.' I didn't say anything."

Coxsone Dodd

"Anyway, I did 'Home Version' for him, and 'Forever Version', then the album followed - 'Forever Version'. There was no reward that come from Coxsone really. It was like a wild goose chase, to collect, you know. He is not there or when he is there, he tells you 'Oh Jackson, check me out tomorrow.' Tomorrow - 'Well, I didn't get round to it, to do your statement, but I have someone looking into it, come back Monday.' Monday - You wait all morning there, he don't come. I did 'El Paso' for him because Slim Smith did a version of 'You Don't Care'. So he had the rhythm."

"The engineer at Duke Reid was Byron Smith. He used to do his own producing on the side as well. He hear the record, and he had the original rhythm with Nora Dean 'Barbwire'. He was the one that put out 'Barbwire'. I was to do it for him. And well I went down there I do it. 'Mosquito One' on that ('Barbwire'). He called me El Paso, and that one sell well, but even today it would do more if he put on it Alcapone instead of El Paso. At the time I let it know that I was Dennis Alcapone. Then I leave, and went to do 'Better Must Come'for Bunny Lee. Who was more a friend than a producer, and that sell a lot.

Junior Byles

Then one Sunday, I was at home, and a guy come to me and said Duke Reid wanted to see me. So I went, and Duke told me he had a tune for me to do. The rhythm was 'Sister Big Stuff' rhythm. He told me that U.Roy was trying to do it, but it wasn't U.Roy style really, couldn't feel it enough. So he said I might as well see what I can do with it. Anyway I did 'Teach The Children' and that was an instant hit. It spent four weeks on both radio stations.

"When I finished recording, Duke Reid called me and gave me two hundred dollars in pure dollar bill right (laughs). It's a lot of money, I never really like the tune honestly. And that's how most of them hit. The tune that you like most of the time they don't hit. I never did really like it. To me, when I get the two hundred dollars, I feel like I was the one who get away with robbery."

Is it true Duke Reid said that no Rasta lyrics were allowed on his records?

"Yes that was true. He was no Rasta himself. He have no Rasta belief. Duke Reid was more or less the man that Rasta lick up against. Duke Reid one day told me that he was Babylon. Duke said - 'Myself, I am Babylon' Because he was the Police, you know. Most of the time in Duke Reid liquor store, it full of Police. He was a Police. Him have a lot of money and a big record store, you know what the Police is like, as long as you can give something they will always be around. Most of the time he have the inspectors and big brass inside the liquor store. He administrates like Police as well. He has rifle that he walks with. His hip gun, his hand grenade.

"He told me point blank, him don't want no Rasta lyrics. That was the main reason for the downfall of the Treasure Isle studio in the later years. The Rasta lyrics were revolutionary and that was the lyrics that selling at that time. I said, Duke, let's go along with what's going on, right? If you don't deal with Rasta on the record, it's not going to sell, because the youth nowadays are looking upon Rastafari. And if this record not have Rasta lyrics, most people them not want to know.

"So I write a tune for Junior Byles. So I said to Duke I write this tune. cause at that time I was more or less a writing man. So I said let Junior sing the tune. Duke says fair enough let's make the rhythm. when he make the rhythm, Duke hadn't heard the lyrics. So when Junior was practising the lyrics - he hear it. "Selassie ah go beat down." Him say no. Him don't want that kind of lyrics to come out of Treasure Isle. And Junior get upset, and him and Junior have a fuss and Junior walk out, cause Junior was a Rasta and to hear Duke say those things upset him."

Big Youth

Do you think things have changed?

"It has since 1976, from the artist's point of view. When I went to Jamaica last year the artist is still...but I see changes. A lot of artists have their own label, which wasn't like that before. And like I said, I think it's between Island and Virgin that help to make that change, when they signed some of the artists.

"Up until that time a producer just bring up his material to his producer over here. The artist wasn't even involved, and this producer might rip off the producer, and by the time he got home he wouldn't have nothing left for the artist."

What DJ's and singers have fought the system successfully?

"Big Youth, hit underworld. Things that Big Youth have on his records, the radio stations wouldn't play. He was just from the sound system to the record counter. That's how his records used to sell. It was when he did 'S.90 Skank' that he start to get radio play and was recognised. Things that the Youth say most would fear to say. For they know they wouldn't get no radio play. and the greatest way to sell records is through the radio - without that it's impossible. Until Big Youth showed them that it was possible."

How powerful are the producers?

"In the early sixties Duke Reid had made it already. Coxsone as well, because Coxsone is a man who exploit people. These people were making money from the early days. And Jamaica is a place where as long as you have money...! It's not like England, where if you commit an offence you would be charged, and it don't matter how much money you have, you can end up in prison.

"If a little producer make a record, these guys can tell the radio station not to play it. And you pack up unless you're very lucky. At one stage you only have two producers - Dodd & Reid. Then you have the man Leslie Kong - Beverleys, a Chinaman. And in Jamaica youu don't really see a poor Chinaman. It's either a coolie man or a black man. These people have a lot of influence. When I started up the label, the first tune went down, and the second tune went down. And then Big Youth started to come up. And was clamped down, when he started to do his own stuff, but he was kinda ...strongarm stuff. I'm kinda soft, I was the soft guy, I don't really tell a producer I'm going to chop off his head or going to shoot him or lick him with something. He don't respect you."

King Stitt

"Still they they didn't get no credit. They didn't mention any DJ name. It was just Skatalites or Baba Brooks, whoever. You didn't hear nothing about DJ's until Lord Comic who did 'Skaing West'. King Stitt came along long after, and deejayed for Clancy Eccles. He did 'Virgorton Two' and 'Fire Corner'."

"Fire Corner was the first, the first big hit from him. But still nobody recognised DJ. You hear that King Stitt done the record and that was it."

"Until Keith Hudson took U.Roy in the studio to do 'Dynamic Fashion Way' with the same rhythm I did 'Spanish Amigo' on, but the record was only selling hard to underworld, the radio didn't play it. And then he did 'Wake The Town' for Duke Reid and if you do a record for him, you know you're going to get recognised because his label was top."

"A man would go into a shop, he always ask if they have anything new on Treasure Isle, Duke Reid or Duchess label. When that record came out the DJ was needed. The singer wasn't really coming out with any good lyrics or rhythms at the time, because the rhythm had just changed, right and rock steady, playing it at the time in the dance hall you realised that this is what they want. At the time I was playing El Paso, we had dubs playing. We would go into the studio and get the raw rhythm, and play it, but we had to be careful, because with a few juice to the head, a few spliff to the head and the rhythm so nice!"