Contributors: Hiaen, Blue, Aidan, Hydria, Megido, Kiwi, Frog, Tal, Whaler

Older characters

Hiaen: I really love the number of older characters in Dishonored? And the fact that nearly all of them kick serious ass?

Like three out of the four protags are around 40. Corvo and Daud are in their mid-50s by their second game. Hypatia is in her 40s, Samuel is in his 60s, Breanna isn't precised but has to be at least 40 by DH2. Lizzy and Slackjaw aren't precised either, but by their appearance I give them roughly 40. The more stark example, I think, is Granny Rags who is like 100 and tries to eat you.

Basically I like that the game doesn't consider "if you're over 30 your career as a fighter is over". Not only that, but the older characters still get to act as physically strong and get directly involved in the action, while a lot of times, in this kind of media you'll have maybe one 40/50yo character who can still kick some ass. All the others will have a "mentor" or "behind the scene" role, or at least have a somewhat calm and rational behavior. Here we have two cannibals, a gang leaders who bite fingers off, two assassins off to kill god...

Basically I like that we have characters who are no longer 25 and not only are active and involved, but are shown doing impulsive shit and bad decisions. Just because you're older doesn't mean that you get wisdom, and just because you're older doesn't mean that your experience is the only thing you have left. Idk I just think it's neat.

Just. Older characters who are more than the archetypes usually thrown at them. :)

Also older women! Many of them!

Blue: i think even aside from the kicking ass aspect. Like. Almost ALL characters are old?? like, pendletons, martins age isnt specified but he looks corvo age, havelock is Ancient. And so on.

its. Realistic as well. These ppl largely wouldn’t be where they are without age and experience and working thru the ranks etc (speaking broadly).

ALSO!!! Billie in doto, in her late 30s, early 40s,,, goes 2 kill god?? Iconic

Hiaen: Yeah! And just... I don't know if it's just me but I feel like in many media (mostly directed at young people) they describe someone as Old and Past Their Time and then you find out that the character is like 40? And it feels good to have a game where you see that no, your life is definitely not over at 35, you can still overthrown governments and kill god and make gang leader soup. It's not "you HAVE to accomplish EVERYTHING before you're 30 or it'll be TOO LATE". Life is long. You have time. Idk this outlook appeals to me.

Blue: the range of characters in terms of like, general diversity and motivations so on, is good?? dh1 ok targets not so much to them, but dh2??? the range of side characters??? their back stories?? like lucia pastor? working hard to help miners and their families, an activist who has no qualms about telling the empress what she thinks? shes such a minor character BUT she makes an impression that is supported by lore and so on. And thats just one example

LGBTQ representation

Blue: hi im thinking about all the lgbt in dishonored,,, like they didn't HAVE to do that,,, not at all... like romantic/sexual relationships barely feature in dishonored and stuff and if arkane had wanted to, they could have not done it all. but they DID!!! arkane were like well we might as well and in some cases it directly adds to the world building (e.g. stilton and theodanis) but also they couldve just made them friends but NO STILTON AND THEODANIS BOYFRIENDS LIKE EVEN MORE!!! and like mindy?? mindy is trans and it is hinted at in game if u look and think but like AGAIN they didnt have to do that!! but they did!!! and daud being ace???? like???? THEY DIDNT HAVE TO DO THAT BUT THEY DID!!! HOO just makes it all a much more colourful world but at the same time.... in most cases it does NOTHING for the plot which is great and its nice just seeing ppl be lgbt and existing and shit they included all these lgbt characters and its amazing and wonderful and they r just existing and im feeling things nd rambling owo

Aidan: I wish wyman was shown in the game to be non-binary but YEAH they are committed to including lgbt characters in the story :)

thinks about billie “I fucking love women and sometimes men” lurk

Whaler: What's so cool about Billie being a canon bicon is she seems to have a preference for women. You very, very rarely see bi women in media who have a preference for women. And I'm living for it. Finally. Fucking finally

Blue: YES esp bc it is easy to miss that emily has a non binary partner!! even if they were referred to MORE and using THEY would be HOO

Hydria: i also like that a bunch of the characters are just left up to interpretation y'know

no canon sexuality but you can see it any way you want

Blue: ALSO the gay npcs on the street in dh2!!! they r there!!

Aidan: mindy being neither cis nor het we love to see it

Blue: like sure its not the pinnacle of Gay Games probably but holy hell is it good! just so diverse, so many, its not like a Big Deal nor a plot point and stuff if u know what i mean and they are just vibing and being lgbt and like overthrowing the government and shit

Hiaen: Also a few lgbt characters as soon as dh1? Geoff, that couple of overseers…

Blue: like they dropped stuff in in dh1 and the dh2 they were like HEHO MORE GAYS!! i just really appreciate that these people are Existing and happen to be LGBT. theres no emphasis on it and perhaps, some more clear hints here and there but also??? it feels like. when u find a "this character is lgbt" hint. its like finding treasure./…

Danny: and also how they left so much ambiguous in dh1, like i feel most things try to like. shoehorn in romance so its like Yeah Theyre Definitely Straight No Homos Here

Hydria: bitches be like "mindy isn't good rep bc the creators only confirmed it on twitter" when they evidently missed every single hint about her being trans in the game

Blue: YEAH MINDY IS SO GOOD BC!!! her being like "yo im trans lmao" wouldnt be. realistic at all nor having like Overt "LOL IM TRANS" written in her diaries bc like. ya know. but having those hints, the heart lines, and then the creators being like "yeah that was the intention shes trans" !!! its !!!! like its realistic i guess bc if u bumped into a cool woman in an alley who asked u 2 steal a body she wouldnt be like "oh im trans btw" yknow

Hiaen: And the fact that in dh2, being lgbt seems to be normal? No negative pressure from society? Wyman being nb and an imperial consort, Stilton being Not Discreet… Mindy being a trans bi woman in a gang and nobody has a negative comment :))))

Blue: YES!!!! its so normal - like the (former) duke of serkonos was a MLM and it wasnt exactly hidden relationship??? Like?????!!!?!??!!??!?

me thinking about asexual assassin daud who is committing crimes with no sexual preference or any care at all :)

Hydria: finally some goddamn fucking ace rep. and especially some thats not like. this character is an innocent uwu precious baby bc theyre ace yknow

Aidan: they took the least baby character and did that gotta respect it

Blue: what i love about daud being ace. is that. hes just vibing. hes in his early 40s. he hasnt even TRIED to settle down for all we know, just doesnt care so doesnt bother and !!

like hes old!!! and he doesnt care for sex!! go king!!!

Kiwi: But also, daud is a grown ass man for once. Dh has lgbt characters that dont come from a coming of age piece of media and its so cool

Blue: YEAH I THINK THATS WHY ITS SO GREAT!!

and theres no like idk exploration of Identity either?? which isn't necessarily bad, but more its nice 2 see ppl w these identities who are COMFORTABLE with it like!!! thats them!!! they exist!!

Hiaen: Just. Old lgbt people!

Blue: thinking about billies audiograph in dh2 where shes like 39 yrs old where she explicitly states she loves women more than men. like, undeniably bi and comfortable enough WITH IT!!

idk its the fact that ppl are comft w themselves that matters.

Danny: they just queer and vibin!!! i love it and love seeing them be more than token queer characters its good

Kiwi: And also, them being comfortable and already middle aged shows that yeah, you are like that and don't "grow out of it" or anything

If anything you get more confident and hot!!

Hiaen: Also on the topic of Billie, a bi woman who's explicitly stated to have a preference? And it not "undermining" her bisexuality? Nice

Blue: like the daud is ace line is just "hes not interested and never has been" and just continues, theres nothing about him being owo oh no if only owo its just HE DONT CARE. NEXT SENTENCE and idk its nice!!

im STILL lauhging about that reddit thread were someone was like "hm idk stilton sounds like he was close to the old duke he could be gay" AS IF NO MASSIVE TOPLESS MEN STATUES DAJHHDSDS

Female characters and the devs listening to criticism

Blue: honestly the devs really try in terms of rep??? like the improvement in so many things between dh1 and 2 is amazing. like they took into account criticism and incorporated it.its far from perfect in many ways but its clear the devs really do try. like the fact that corvo, the protagonist, is not white, is a minority in the world he lives, and for an action man assassin, his MAIN motivation is his daughter?? like how many white dude bros do u think realise corvo isnt white??? like REALLY realise beyond eh serkonos, bc he isnt and like the language used towards him and stuff. like AGAIN they improved so much from dh1 too - i like the dh1 women, just in dh2 theres more AND with more roles in general (e.g. beyond housekeeping, service etc)

Hiaen: Once again, so many women, of various ages, various motivations, including some truly awful ones. And that the devs saw the critics of dh1's treatment of women, admitted they had done wrong and corrected it?

Hydria: strong both physically and/or mentally. breanna "throws 6'4 muscular corvo with one arm" ashworth

Aidan: it just pisses me off when critics are treated like they’re crazy by some fans regarding dh1 because “look the empress was female!!! girlboss see!!! they added billie and emily as cool characters” yes because they listened to criticism

Blue: like i feel like w female characters in dh1 the devs kinda relied too heavily on real world expectation of that time period?? so altho the women r cool, most of them are like i said in house-keeping type jobs or stereotypical (e.g. callista, lydia, cecelia) and tbh theres not that many recurring ones??? and like. a lot of the npcs also mention being cleaners and stuff. and like theres that callista heartline of wanting to go to see but "alas shes a woman" which points out these women DO have aspirations just social stuff blah blah blah. but then dh2 the devs were like "wait we go magic in this game YEEHAW MORE WOMEN" and BAM female soldiers BAM lucia pastor BAM HYPATIA BAM BAM BAM most of the coup crew r WOMEN and its like!!!!! and then ofc BILLIE IS THERE and EMILY IS THE PROTAG and WAH WOMEN

Hydria: they're allowed to be, GASP, not "conventionally attractive" and i love that… lizzy....... :)

Frog: i feel like they also used the 'dunwall is more conservative bc its where the royalty is, but serkonos is more liberal so women can be soldiers/police/royal conservatory directors'

Blue: i feel theres also the element of the devs being like "well 15 years have past yeehaw". but also, given how dunwall was (eg in plague) it is reasonable perhaps to hope that there were more, just not like to see in that crisis idk dk like given the second game

Danny: i love to joke about granny rags but honestly its so neat to have a really powerful old woman

Hydria: doto having a protagonist who's a disabled bi black woman in her 40s is just. Mwah

Hiaen: Even Delilah whose is typed as "femme fatale" is not really conventionally attractive or feminine? Short hair, very heavy makeup, doesn't show a lot of skin, clothes give her large shoulders…

Blue: and actually!!! I LIKe that delilah as a female villain doesnt flirt either??? not like typical sexy Woman villian in lots of movies - ok theres the corvos dummy thicc line at the start as a joke but nothing else after WHICH IS NICE!!

Hydria: she does a lil bit, but mostly not like that

Blue: not overtly though, and its not massively sexualised either

Aidan: she does but it’s different from normal, she’s not doing it to gain power, it’s like a power move for her

Hiaen: I feel like she does her flirting for herself, or to make Emily uncomfortable, and not for the benefit of someone else which is often how it looks for that kind of archetype?

Aidan: I WEIRDLY LOVE how delilah loves to make emily uncomfortable with the whole “your parents kept secrets from you”

Hydria: once again breanna having a really low cut shirt but they didnt take the opportunity to fill that gap with massive visible honkers

thank u devs

Blue: HM ALSO BACK TO DH1 BUT BILLIE HAVING THE SAME OUTFIT AS DAUD - no sexy Female Assassin outfit its the same as everyone elses. like!! no sexual dimorphic whalers THEY ARE THE SAME!

Hiaen: The fact that there are a few whalers with ambiguous or feminine names among those that you can summon, and they all have the same model? Nice

Blue: exactly!! i mean also they lich rally reused dauds body but also it means that ALL whalers SAME uniform in general and HOOO

Aidan: i love accidental feminism in coding like all the women in dh1 wearing pants and having short hair for convenience and billies model just being daud

Tal: i love the no dresses thing specifically bc it avoids the stereotype that in order to be strong a woman in a period piece she has to be all like “oh i HATE dresses and i think women who like them are WEAK and CANT FIGHT because i’m a ~feminist~” as if that isnt just woke misogyny

Ugly (affectionate)

Blue: im actually so grateful for how ugly and angular all the ppl in Dishonored (2012) are.

most games: we will have Pretty protagonists who we will ntry make as realsitic as possible

dishonored: they are so ugly and sharp and big noses and scarred faces but also so endearing to you adn stylised

like fuckin, dauds big blunt nose hes not even that ugly by dishonored standards and then GEOFF who ive talked about a lot and yeah. the loyallsits as well like MAN dishonored really said no rights for anyone except corvo and jess but jess fuckin dies. jess is one of the few conventionalyl pretty chracters in dishonored

Hiaen: The long foreheads! The chunky necks! The large ears! The excessive makeup! The broken noses! The square chins! The small mouths! The long faces!

Blue: also callista!!! her face!!! its so important. u can see them going for the sharpness in emily in dh2 but holding back (that before and after of her concept art portrait,,,,). also the ears,,, so important. the scarred faces,,, the big chunky disjointed wonky noses

normaly ppl: :-)

dishonored characters: :~)

Hiaen: Callista is not conventionally ugly, per se, but you wouldn't call her conventionally pretty either - face a bit too long, no makeup visible...

Blue: YES!!! she has the curnow nose and its beautiful!!! like fuckin disney films same facoing their fuckin dragons vs dishonored being like "well geoff curnow has a big bent nose so we will give his only in-game family member callista a similar nose"

Hiaen: Delilah has skin-tight outfits and a pretty face, but her makeup is too heavy and haircut too unfeminine to really be conventionally attractive too

Blue: the lack of dresses tho for game design reasons is also a fuckin powermove bc then u get the boyle party (aka where in real world analgoies all the women would b in dresses bc Dress Pretty) cutting about in trousers and its nice bc its Different

Hiaen: It may sound like a detail but Lizzy and Daud having a nose bump? Made me like my own nose a bit more even though I've been self-conscious of my nose bump for years

Blue: GOD LIZZIE AS WELL LIKE DEFYING THE CONCEPT OF CONVENTIONAL ATTRACTIVNESS FOR WOMeN LIKE!!! SHE DOESNT EVEN HAVE SHOES AND HER HEAD IS SHAVED AND SHE LOOKS MEAN AND I LOVE HER

Whaler: Even Vera Moray was pretty and enchanted an Emperor onec, but she isn't Hollywood pretty imo. I just wish more game devs realized that characters can just look like average people