Tagged as Daud, The Outsider, Billie Lurk

Contributors: Blue, Hiaen

Blue: Ok, so. A large essay discussing Daud in the context of DOTO, specifically focusing on his characterisation. There is a lot more to discuss on DOTO in general, so I have limited it to this. Although Daud is ultimately a side character with little screen time, his motivations drive the plot and thus it is valid to, looking at the game as a whole, to critique his character. It is undeniably a huge aspect of game and plot but as everyone likes to say, it isn’t very representative of the Daud we knew previously. Overall I did enjoy DOTO and liked watching Billie make her owns choices and so on and Daud’s character is absolutely not a reason to hate the game as it detracts from the solid development for Billie. But nevertheless I am disappointed and this particular meta is about Daud in the context of DOTO.

I am going to split this largely into two parts: firstly, discussing Daud’s motivations and why Daud’s view that the Outsider must end is valid. There is an awful lot of Outsider defending within the fandom and that black-and-white view clashes with Dishonored as a whole, where there is usually no right and no wrong. The Outsider is not a pristine, innocent player in all this and that should be acknowledged.

As a preface, it is important to consider Daud’s motivations and view of the Outsider from Daud’s perspective. We, the player, KNOW, in DOTO, that the Outsider isn’t as powerful as one may first believed – in DH2, we say the Outsider express discomfort at Delilah’s connection to the void, and that the Outsider was powerless about in. Further, in DH2, we, the player, are for the first time shown glimpses of who the Outsider once was, and how he came to be the entity we see in the game. But, Daud does not know this. And this is something worth bearing in mind. There are some points later one where I will point out how Daud views the Outsider, and while these views may be incorrect, it feeds into the wider point. And lastly, I should note that we (the player) shouldn’t really tie the Outsider to our notions of morality given he exists on an entirely different level of existence. But we cannot fault Daud for doing so.

Let’s begin with Daud’s motivations. This has been heavily meme’d in fandom to the point the original intention is almost forgotten. Memeing is fine and fun, but when it reaches a point that actual characteristics are forgotten a step back should be taken. To preface, (and I can’t believe I have to say this) I don’t condone Daud wanting to kill their equivalent of god. Rather, Daud makes valid points on the WHY and Daud, being who he is, views death as the only option - indeed, it is the only option available until deep within the cultists base. A commonly circulated point within the fandom sphere is that Daud blames the Outsider for everything. This doesn’t become apparent in Daud’s lines until the end, when he is dead in the void itself – which I view as poor characterisation and discuss later). However, Daud makes an array of good points.

Backtracking to earlier in game. When you first encounter Daud, he does not then squarely blame the Outsider. Rather, he identifies the Outsider as the root cause of many issues in the world, such as the cults and witches – “The one responsible for it all – the cults, the black magic, this mark on my hand” – and not blaming the Outsider outright for Daud committing murder as heavily memed. Daud briefly alludes to some of the atrocities he has seen done in the Outsider’s name by the cultists. And yes, the Outsider has no part in that and yes the Outsider does not ask for that, we return to the theme of the root cause. Daud possibly, and probably, doesn’t view the Outsider a person – and in a way, the Outsider isn’t, being beyond many human notions and attributes. Daud sees the atrocities committed by those wanting to gain favour with the Outsider, by those against the Outside and those that himself and other marked have committed. Daud himself says that the world “doesn’t need more men like [him]” in the context of the mark, highlighting an aspect of Daud’s agenda is to prevent any future Knives of Dunwall. Unfortunately, this specific point isn’t particularly elaborated on further which is a shame. But in short, Daud views the Outsider as the ultimate source and enabler of many harmful attributes in wider society and believes eliminating the Outsider would stop that. Daud believes that “the world will be better off without that black-eyed bastard giving out his magic to the lucky few”. And, perhaps he is right. (ignoring of course what happens to the void after etc. as something Daud is not aware of, although one could argue another cause of Daud failing to view the wider picture, but please remember this is a discussion of Daud ergo using Daud’s viewpoint is accurate and important).

The Outsider giving out his mark has, overall, done more harm than good in the context of the Dishonored timeframe (early to mid 1800s). Daud points out that the Outsider chooses who gets to wear his mark and black magic, something “no one should decide”. And, in that respect, Daud is correct. Moreover, there is the belief that the Outsider knows what people will do, what they will become once they have been marked, and that the Outsider does not care. While the verity of this belief is debatable and beyond the scope of this essay, there is ample evidence that the Outsider can somewhat sense future outcomes to some extent – from dialogue in DOTO and in DH1. Furthermore, we must remember that this is from Daud’s perspective, a man who when he was younger the Outsider whispered to him that he was important, that he would change things. Hearing such words, likely among other examples, it is no surprise that a man like Daud believes the Outsider to be akin to an omnipresent being who will know what will happen (again, I don’t care if this is true or not, what is important is what Daud thinks). Daud’s belief of the Outsider knowing what could happen perforates into Daud’s overall feelings and disdain towards the Outsider and is further expressed in DOTO. That the Outsider knows what will happen when he gives out his mark. Specifically, in DOTO Daud believes that the Outsider marked him “knowing what [he] could do with that kind of power”. Daud continues, saying that he (Daud) carved Dunwall up and that the world “doesn’t need more men like [him]”. I think it is also important to point out in this dialogue that, contrary to popular rhetoric, Daud does not blame his actions on the Outsider, despite fandom portrayals suggesting it to be where one might expect it.

From what the Outsider knows what will happen to what he may expect. It has often been discussed in the lab that the Outsider as curious to what will happen when the powerless is given power, liken him to being bored and seeking entertainment, and perhaps those interpretations are correct. But there is undeniable evidence that the Outsider expects chaos, death and blood and even enjoys it. From DH1, the Outsider’s dialogue to a low chaos Corvo expresses surprise at the lack of blood bodies. This point highlights two things. One, that the Outsider doesn’t know outright what will happen. But two, that he marked Corvo expecting, though perhaps not wishing for, a chaotic outcome. I use Corvo as an example as the Outsider has no prior interactions with Corvo, by comparison for low chaos Daud in DLCs lack of murder hits different.

Continuing along with Daud’s perception that the Outsider knows what will happen, comes that the Outsider enjoys the ensuing chaos. I have brought this up in the server before but will go into again within this context. Canonically the Outsider at least would tell Daud, directly, that he enjoys the chaos and blood left in Daud’s wake. Whether this is true, it does not matter: previous discussion in the lab led to the interpretation of the Outsider antagonising Daud. While valid, absolutely what matters is that he tells Daud this, further feeding into Daud’s impressions of the Outsider. The two lines – “There are times when I delight in seeing lives end and chaos spread…” and “You've taken a bloody road here, and no one has enjoyed it more than I” – appear in medium-low chaos and medium-high chaos respectively. While low-chaos is canon so it is possible, in canon, that Daud never heard these lines (though also possible he heard the former), it is also likely that throughout their long history the Outsider has made similar remarks. From what game-time we have with Daud, it appears highly likely the Outsider has commented on enjoying the ensuing chaos and this feeds into Daud’s story of the Outsider that leads into why he decides the Outsider must end.

A last, and small point, that feeds into the idea that idea that the Outsider causes harm, in this case directly, is Billie. Regrettably, this is never built upon in game but nevertheless could and should have been another points in Daud’s agenda against the Outsider. The Outsider physically and violently harms Billie, removing an arm and an eye. Although she receives fake parts to replace what is lost, they are visibly different and tied to the void. And, unlike when marking Corvo/Emily in DH2 (and perhaps whenever he marks although the mechanic wasn’t there in DH1), there is no choice. While this is a small, singular action and does not add much weight to the rest of this, it is something I do not think should be forgotten.

But all of this harks back to the theme of choice. Ultimately, it was Daud’s choice to murder. And without the mark, Daud would have continued to murder – he was a murderer before he was marked and he was a murdered after. Daud says the Outsider made him, but what really happened was the Outsider gave Daud a way to become a truly ghostly and ferocious assassin. There is no black and white way to look at this. Through marking Daud and others, the Outsider enables them to create more harm and chaos than they would otherwise. A clear example is Delilah and the state of Dunwall at the end of DH2. Simply, if Delilah weren’t marked, things could not have gotten as bad (thinking about hoards of overseers turned to stone, the letters about food going rotten suddenly and so forth). It is easy to become detracted and debate about this so I’ll stop and sum up: it is reasonable to see why Daud has these grievances towards the Outsider.

Now, onto the discussion of Daud’s actual characterisation. I will preface this, by saying as I have before, that by not having Daud straight up blame the Outsider outright for what Daud did, rather keeping the the concept of “root cause” as touched on, some aspects of the following would be avoided. Daud’s characterisation in DOTO is something that continues to be viewed as a black mark against DOTO, which otherwise has some strong themes in play. The following aspects have two main take home points: that his characterisation differs starkly in places and the lack of in game explanation. The latter alone could have made these aspects work better instead of DOTO being viewed as a “retcon” of Daud’s development in the DLCs by many fans. Of course, people change with time. But, this is fiction and we deserve satisfaction for a character’s development and wider story. Now, satisfaction does not necessarily mean “please fans with the plot” but rather staying true to what we previously know about a character or explaining why a character has changed, if such change has occurred off-screen. But we do not get an explanation for Daud’s change in mind.

The main point, and that which is memed so thoroughly, is Daud blaming the Outsider for what he became. The concept of Daud being “made” by the Outsider has been discussed before so I won’t go into that. But the major point is Daud’s story in the DLCs and how thoroughly that development conflicts with the man we are presented with in DOTO. In the DLCs where Daud firmly accepts what he did, what he caused and the consequences. One of the closing lines to the Brigmore Witches DLC is “I killed an empress but saved her daughter who will one day, rule an empire. Those were my choices, I'm ready for what comes” – not the words of a man willing to point the finger at anything reasonable. Accepting your actions, accepting the responsibility of them, is a theme to Daud’s character in the DLCs. Of course, 15 years have past since then come DOTO. Having Daud reach this conclusion could be a result of over a decade spent lingering in his own bitterness and regrets. However, the game doesn’t tell us this, doesn’t provide any evidence nor explanation for why Daud would become like that.

Daud (as oft discussed) has this strange view of blame. The concept of being made (he directly refers to the Outsider making him what he was) thus through that logic of thinking, Daud thinks the Outsider shoulders the blame for what Daud has done as Daud shoulder’s Billie’s guilt. Regardless though, this tidbit, however interesting, again ignores the massive aspect of Daud’s character in the DLCs accepting what he has done by having Daud in the void directly attribute his mistakes to the Outsider. Even earlier in DOTO we don’t see this, it’s the concept of the wider cause. “The world doesn’t need more people like me”, a feeling of more regret and shame for his actions and wanting to prevent anyone else becoming like that again. By making Daud wholly and solely blame the Outsider in some lines of dialogue in the void, we erase many of Daud’s thoughts in the DLCs, our last encounter with him, and is such why this game and Daud’s portrayal has proven unpopular with many.

This wouldn’t be a good meta if I solely said this was wrong without ignoring some evidence for the other side. But I maintain, it is overall, to the extent shown in DOTO , out of character. As mentioned before, Daud’s idea that the Outsider knows the outcomes, feeds into the concept of blame – that Daud blames the Outsider for perhaps not warning him, for knowing what would – what could – happen, and just sitting back and watching the show. In the DLCs, Daud has a scathing line about the Outsider knowing what would happen if Daud killed the empress, indicating blame, through a not warning, not stopping aspect. But not outright blame. In addition, this line occurs early in game if my memory serves me right, and by the end of the DLCs we have Daud clearly accepting responsibility for what he has done to the city of Dunwall.

Ultimately, Daud in DOTO (as I’ve said in previous meta) would work if Daud didn’t completely appropriate blame to the Outsider – rather, kept with and emphasised the Outsider as a root cause of many facets of “bad” and an intent to stop the source. Unfortunately, that is not so and we end up with jarring characters from the two games.

My next point refers to the letter (presumably from Thomas), saying how Daud never stopped killing. While I maintain from a interpretation that perhaps it was a lie, that Thomas wanted to warn Billie away, within the context of the essay it again serves to discredit Daud’s journey in DH1/the DLCs. Daud, in his speech to Corvo, declares he has “had enough killing”. Additionally, the Heart spouts that “His hands do violence, but there is a different dream in his heart” further supporting that this is a man who wants to leave this life, the life of an assassin, behind.

Moreover, Daud is canonically low chaos and spared his main target – Delilah – in addition to Billie (though she was not a target in the traditional sense). Although we do not know about the others, keeping in line with the main game and canonical fates, it is reasonable to assume that Timsh and Rothwild were also spared. This is a former assassin, a man who would have one year prior not hesistated to deal a lethal strike, taking alternatives instead. And, regardless to Timsh and Rothwild’s canonical fates, at the minimum Delilah’s fate shows Daud finding another way, another way that didn’t involve blood when absolutely, before, he would have simply killed her.

Yes, as I said, people do change. But please also recall what the triggering event for Daud’s change was. The murder of Jessamine Kaldwin. While it is suggested Daud’s doubts and regrets were building up before, killing Jessamine and the ensuing fall of Dunwall is the catalyst for who Daud became in the DLCs. Daud broke, mentally, in the aftermath and after being spared by Corvo, he left his weapon at Jess’s grave. Such events would surely continue to weigh heavily on his mind. For Daud to suddenly go back on that development, that change from a paid killer to a man who no longer wants to kill, with no explanation at all, to suddenly undo everything we believed from the DLCs, massively undermines the unique story he was given in DH1 and the DLCs.

Likewise, Daud tells Billie to kill the eyeless cult leaders, because “the world won’t care if they live or die”. Again, harking back to Daud in the DLCs realising that choices always matter, the change in characterisation is stark. But, again, people do change and this is another example where some form of explanation could make this acceptable. This line shows Daud as a sad, bitter, old man. A phrase I often use to describe Daud in DOTO as it is very apt. But I feel like this sudden change in attitude towards choices, mattering, and death, with no explanation, is off. Why has Daud decided these lives don’t matter? What happened to him, since Billie last saw him, when Billie betrayed him for she saw the assassin was getting too soft and letting targets and others live, to make him think that way? This is just another example where the game backtracks on the development presented for Daud previously.

If the game – and I specify the game instead of a book that came out after the game did – explained why the Daud we have in DOTO has become so different compared to how we left him, it would be ok. Of course, as a Dood stan, I would be disappointed at whatever hurdle lead Daud to those conclusions after his arch in the DLCs and what looked like a continuation of his redemption after. But, for storytelling? It would be ok, and serve as further character development. But we did not get that and instead we have some starkly different attributes. And consider the DOTO protagonist Billie who like us, hasn’t seen Daud since he started on his journey 15 years prior, wouldn’t she also be curious at how he reverted back to his old ways, despite everything? Billie who was there when Daud sent Rothwild off to Tyvia, Timsh to jail, Daud who despite the fiery anger and violence many would have expected, spared Billie’s life after her betrayal. Surely Billie would also have some form of suprise at this? But nothing in game to answer why.

In summary: Daud has a point. Daud’s characterisation in DOTO is very different to how we were left. The game explaining why would make it acceptable if sad. But it didn’t, and is unsatisfying.

Hiaen: Reading about that line "the outsider made me into what I am". It can be interpreted not as the Outsider making Daud into an assassin, but rather in making him into the Knife of Dunwall?

There's an element of disproportion that is brought with the Outsider giving his Mark. Removing the Outsider won't stop people from being murderers or tyrants. But it will stop them from becoming a Knife of Dunwall or a witch empress capable of devastating a city by herself. It ties into a rather background theme of Dishonored that you shouldn't concentrate too much power into the hand of a single person, least they use it destructively, voluntarily or not.

Blue: YES!! THATS IT!! i think alot of the making aspect ignores that daud was a killer regardless, what the outsider did was make him someone who could do more, who had the edge over every other poor sod. doto daud even has a line relating to the disproportion, that some ppl get the mark whilst many others who arent that different don’t.
its all just about. power. playing back into the central theme of dishonored. power exists, and power corrupts. the disproportionate influx of literal magic from the outsider creates chaos and death. and while the outsider himself is not wielding the weapon, without him to mark so much less would happen, and people like daud and delilah, wouldnt be at such an advantage over others. and from that perspective, daud was valid to want to take down the outsider.
i didnt even cover why daud would decide killing is the option but 1) how else do u upheave a god? 2) like the non lethal isnt uncovered till very late in so like idk man hes valid

Hiaen: One thing that I find semi-hilarious in Dishonored is that for most missions, the nonlethal is completely improvised? You hear about the brand while on your way to Campbell, Slackjaw gives you the nonlethal for the twins out of nowhere, you meet Brisby while dawdling at Lady Boyle's party (i even missed him on my first playthrough!), Vasco gives you Hypatia's nonlethal, etc etc. Apart maybe for Burrows (where Samuel gives you the hint), the protag goes into the mission completely ready to commit murder.

Blue: but yeah, there is a massive element of improv always, i mean tbh u can also just leave rothwild, and timsh was a contract in a way, for info.
i feel like tho, when there is the choice to kill or not, like daud finding out practically last minute that he didnt have to kill delilah, to take that non lethal route speaks a lot for his character development since the dh1 prologue.
and that is a massive thing re the daud still killing and still having that attitude to killing in doto - excluding the outsider bc no other feasible choice - is that it undermines what we saw happen 2 him as a person between the prologue and the flooded district

On Daud's attitude in the DLCs

Blue: idk i feel like these 2 sentences are a very good summary of dauds overall attitude, that we see during teh dlcs? it ties in well w the whole "make my choices and what happens next happens" type deal daud has going on.

Daud's viewing marked people as more dangerous due to heightened powers

Blue: this excerpt plays into a lot of our wider summary of dauds attitude towards the outsider/doto motivations. "without these gifts, would i be a man to fear?". and like, he acknowledges that hed like to think so - hed still be a feared killer regardless adn doing what he wants - but idk ackonwledges that the elevated powers via the mark gives him a edge and helps make him a legend in dunwall beyond a mere man.

Blue: and also that daud believes the overseers (and i guess by extension general population) are "right to fear" them.

[See also: Daud giving up killing post-DH1 for similar discussing on the not-killing aspect]