Deres Majestæt Dronning Margrethe II
Dear Pope Francis
Kære Mosaisk Troessamfund
Kære Islamisk Trossamfund
Dear Catholic church by bishop Cezlaw Kozon
Dear Father Gregers, Sct. Michael’s church
Dear Church Board in Sct. Michael’s church in Kolding
Dear Sct. Michael’s church in Kolding
Dear protestant state church in Denmark
Dear bishops in the state church in Denmark
Dear Christian denominations
Dear Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen
Dear Minister of Justice, Justitsminister Nick Hækkerup
Kære Uddannelses- og forskningsminister Jesper Petersen
Kære Børne- og undervisningsminister Pernille Rosenkranz-Theil
Dear newsmedia
During the mass here 3 October 2021,
Father Gregers read from the creation in Genesis in the bible.
About Adam naming the animals and not finding an equal partner for him.
Then God let Adam fall asleep and God took a rib from Adam's side and formed Eve.
Next, Father Greger began his sermon by saying '" that it is not certain that it took place like this.
"But it's a nice story. It's a good story."
In the sermon here, Father Gregers is very consistent with the fact that the words about marriage and divorce in the text are ABSOLUTE IN THE CHURCH.
No divorce is possible. He says nothing about any human issues that can cause divorce irreparably.
But the church is adamant that creation is not necessarily as described. It was so unexpected.
Which of the 2 situations is more biblically correct than the other ??
I then write to Father Gregers and we learn, that it is what the CHURCH teaches that determines what is correct.
I answer, that I cannot believe that God is confused about the very way He created us. I do not understand, then, why the words about divorce are above everything to Catholics, but I do not get that said.
But I am encouraged to read YOUCAT, catechism and then come to a dialogue with Father Gregers, "because there is a need for immersion, "he writes. I appreciate that he is always ready to invite to a conversation.
October October 6 - 2021, the next day, I am totally shaken, when I experience in news, that a massive sexual abuse of up to 330,000 people has been revealed in the Catholic Church in France from 1950 all the way up to 2020.
It happened while the church was turning a blind eye.
I write this to Father Gregers, who in the situation sounds like he thinks it happened 70 years ago. He thinks it's awful, yes, but what can you do about something that happened 70 years ago?
It dawns on me, that he has not read my accompanying article, and therefore does not know it is happening right now in our southern neighboring country, France.
I'll inform him again. Then he takes it very seriously, because
during the Mass on Sunday, October 10, 2021, Gregers really expresses how extremely bad he finds the situation of the church in France. But he says that there have been no sexual abuse cases in Denmark. It is incomprehensible that he does not know about it.
On Saturday, October 16, the congregation is invited to the English Mass.
Humorous C C C :
Cake, Catechesis, Church
So there is teaching in the Catholic doctrine.
And pictures are shown of the Virgin Mary's being taken up into heaven. The feast of it is August 15 every year in the faith of the Catholic Church.
It turns out that because her grave has never been found, the doctrine is that she was taken up to heaven, Father Gregers said.
The doctrine is also that Mary is a virgin all throughout her life.
Even though she was married to Joseph.
I comment, "well in the Gospel of Matthew chapter 13 v 55-56 are the names of Jesus' 4 biological half-brothers, "Jacob, Joseph, Judas, Simon, and that his sisters live among us".
Then it gets explained in the Catholic Church during the Catechesis hour, that they were all in fact Jesus' cousins, not siblings.
Mary was CATEGORICALLY VIRGIN throughout her marriage to her husband Joseph. And that the birth was a virgin birth, Lars and I had no idea.
It's shocking to listen to. A mockery of a healthy female body.
It is a core value of REAL BIG dimensions in the teachings of the Catholic Church.
The next day a woman in the congregation, whom I value very HIGHLY, contacts me, Daniela Skov in writing, explaining that
"even though it sounds wildly strange, Catholics must believe in dogma ...."
that Mary was always a virgin and the birth of Jesus was a VIRGIN BIRTH.
She encloses links to 2 YOUTUBE VIDEOS.
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Tim Staples - A Defense of Mary's Perpetual Virginity
Tim Staples - A Defense of Mary's Perpetual Virginity
IT SOUNDS WILDLY STRANGE.
VIRGIN BIRTH OF JESUS IS THAT SHE DIDN'T GIVE BIRTH TO HIM THROUGH HER VAGINA,
BECAUSE SHE SHOULD BE PRESERVED AS A VIRGIN.
In the video, it is explained with the words that it was a supernatural birth. That the supernatural part can be understood just as the
"LIGHT CAN GO THROUGH A WINDOW, WITHOUT THE WINDOW BREAKING. "
It sounds like she was pregnant one moment. And the next moment he, the baby, was just lying there.
I ask Father Gregers why the church needs her to be a virgin all her life. Why should God force them to live their whole lives in an amputated marriage. Why though?
Why? Why, though? I asked really shaken. Gregers answers so very quietly: "It's because she should live as holy and good."
I hear myself answer that she probably doesn't do that, when she evades her husband entirely in marriage ???
Father Gregers replies in a low voice,that :"I can understand well, what it is you are saying."
Lars and I react strongly to the sexual doctrine and morality of the Catholic Church.
We write really shaken to Father Gregers, why should Mary and Joseph be forced to have a marriage with so many quarrels and problems. They love each other and must use all their strength to stay apart for many days and years.
It seems completely unrealistic. And without meaning.
Just as the sexual teachings of the Catholic Church maltreat a female body, so grossly. Mary must give birth SUPERNATURALLY.
Her body is not allowed to be, as it is with healthy, perfectly healthy normal, even God-created and God-willed functions.
What a GOD'S VIEW??
WHAT IN THE WORLD IS IT FOR A VIEW ON WOMEN??
At the same time throughout history for at least 70 years,
MANY OF THE CHURCH'S OWN CARDINALS, PRIEST PEOPLE HAVE NOT STOPPED IN EXERCISING SEXUAL VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE AND WOMEN IN THE NUN - ORDERS.
HIDDEN AND SECRET.
The same men who outwardly were to live AS VIRGINS.
THE SEXUAL TEACHING OF THE CHURCH FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN A SPIRITUAL CALL IS VIRGINNESS.
It dawned on us yesterday that it is a core value for some reason.
Mary was apparently also exclusively real in a spiritual calling ?? And what about Joseph ??
Those men have preached.
Those men have taught.
They have behaved EXTERNALLY to their congregations as accepted under the auspices of the church.
THEIR SEXUAL ABUSE AND VIOLENCE TOOK PLACE IN secret, WHILE THEY WERE pretending to be holy and good AND WAS PERMITTED TO
At the same time, as they are teaching the fellow catholics, what are the right things to do in everyday life.
WE absolutely do not claim that all clergy in the Catholic Church live a hidden life and engage in sexual violence against their fellow Catholics of different ages.
THE SEXUAL MORALS OF THE CHURCH IS THAT MARIA IS AN ETERNAL VIRGIN, IN ORDER TO BE GOOD AND HOLY.
ALSO IN 2021 PRIESTS THROUGH THE DOGMAS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ARE INTERFERING
ALL THE WAY INTO THE CONGREGATION BEDROOMS :
COUPLES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE CONTRACEPTIVES.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO DIVORCE, ACCORDING TO FATHER GREGER'S PREACHING.
BUT PRIESTS, CLERGY HAVE GONE TO GREAT LENGTH COMMITTING SEXUAL VIOLENCE AGAINST SO MUCH MANY PEOPLE IN MANY NATIONS. Also in Denmark.
IT'S OUTRAGING AND SHOCKING.
WE CHALLENGE 100 PERCENT the teaching of THE CATHOLIC CHURCH on MARY'S life long virginity
IN WRITING TO FATHER Gregers.
That she and Joseph have been offered nothing but a terrible marriage.
We do not understand that the Catholic Church has the right to fill so many people's lives in the sexual realm, all the way up to 2021.
WHEN SO INCREDIBLY MANY PRIEST HAS DESTROYED ENDLESS MANY CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE'S LIFE.
Completely no boundaries.
Father Gregers is very shaken by the sexual assaults in France.
He tells the congregation what precautions are taken in the church in Kolding and Denmark, to ensure as much as possible that it does not happen in Denmark.
But he tells the congregation that there has been no sexual abuse in the Catholic Church in Denmark.
We simply do not understand that, because it has been talked about publically years ago.
We are writing to Gregers, the Parish Council and a woman in the congregation, who was actively involved in teaching the young people, last year, who were to be firmed (Confirmation class.)
She gets these emails, we write sent to her.
I really appreciate you. That I want to say to you.
What is it that will happen, for you, if you really listen to your own way of thinking, as a human being, as a woman ?? "That sounds wildly strange." you said that yourself.
The Bible itself gives us the freedom to be natural, healthy people:
Ephesians chapter 4 v 14:
"Then we shall no longer be foolish children, and be tossed about and driven back and forth by the wind of every doctrine, by the dice of men, when they cunningly lead us astray.."
Children and young people are also involved in everything that is said during MASS, and since we had cathecesis on Saturday 16 October 2021 this teaching, because they are allowed to sit in the same room as us adults.
We write because the church also then teaches young people about the church's sexuality regarding Mary's lifelong virginity, which makes her good and holy.
What a distorted view of sexuality and their own bodies they get in from the in-depth Catholic teachings.
At the same time, it is precisely children and young people who are being sexually destroyed by priests in many many countries.
It can not be argued away.
WE ask Father Gregers if it is the bishop who has led him to believe that there has been no sexual abuse of people in the church in Denmark. Because Bishop Ceslaw Kozon has to such a great extent downplayed and downsized the seriousness of sexual violations in Denmark, back in 2010.
The 2 clergymen, Father Gregers and Bishop Ceslaw Kozon must have talked with each other for years since 2010 ????
Father Gregers is really upset and calls his superior Bishop Ceslaw Kozon a DECENT AND RIGHT-THINKING MAN.
Cf. TEXT MESSAGE.
DESPITE THE BISHOP'S STATEMENTS SHOWING THAT HE DOES NOT CARE EVEN ABOUT CATHOLICS.
HIS OWN. WHEN THEY ARE VICTIMS.
HE SAYS OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS, conciliatory to the church, that it was not a child in the legal sense, but a young person. Does it referers to from above the sexual minimum age
HE Completely AVOIDS
THAT THERE IS NO CONSENT GIVEN FROM THE YOUNG PERSON
THAT THE PRIEST IS ALLOWED TO TOUCH THE YOUNG SEXUALLY IN ANY POSSIBLE WAY.
THE BISHOP would rather just have peace and quiet to preach the gospel.
And to our dismay, Gregers writes nothing back to us that he listens to the FACT, that there has been sexual abuse of children and young people in the church in Denmark.
It is very difficult as parents and grandparents to get our first impression of the bishop, as a man who is very indifferent to CATHOLIC VICTIMS IN DENMARK.
That we then have to SWALLOW, that he is a DECENT AND RIGHT-THINKING MAN, it is appalling.
SMS from Father Gregers:
Dear Daniela (and Dragana and Ulla for information).
I have known Bishop Kozon for more than 25 years and have had a lot to do with him over time. I have occasionally disagreed with him. But I never experienced that he (or for that matter the Pope) misinformed or said one thing to anyone and anything else to others. I like Bishop Kozon a lot. He is a decent and straight-thinking man. As a pastor of the Catholic Church in Denmark, I have full confidence in him.
Daniela, I offered you a conversation where we could discuss things. This offer is still in force. From now on I will not answer your long SMSs. Only short text messages with PRACTICAL information, questions and answers will answer and allow myself to send.
Love
Gregers
I will not be able to stand in a conversation solely with Father Gregers. I believe the church's sexual doctrine of Mary is so offensive to women and to sex in marriage. It is also deeply offensive to Joseph, not just Mary.
Against the 2 and their marriage.
They are not even catholics. They are JEWISH. Just like Jesus is Jewish.
Why should they be married at all, Joseph and Mary.
Why should Joseph be there at all when she is only holy and good at a suitable distance from him.
And the church has made such grotesque antics that they totally deny that Mary and Joseph may have been REAL PEOPLE.
Among other things, their NAMED and unnamed children are cousins only to Jesus.
Although the Bible is normal and natural about sexuality, and Matthew writes in connection with what we probably usually know as the Christmas gospel:
"Behold, the virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" - that is, God with us.
When Joseph awoke from his sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took her as his wife. But he did not sleep with her until she gave birth to her son. And he called his name Jesus."
Matthew chapter 1 verses 23-25,
That Joseph and Mary had sexual intercourse, after she has given birth to Jesus, such the Catholic Church goes to extremes to maintain to children, young people and adults, the dogma of Mary as FOREVER VIRGIN.
The Church's teachings about the birth of Jesus and our natural bodies. It is a profound assault on WOMEN.
In the sexual teachings of the Catholic Church.
Yes, also against the MAN. He is not allowed to be a healthy, natural man.
Does the church think they just did not have those feelings, or what ??
I'm not just going for a conversation alone with Father Gregers, to be exposed to being told WHAT it's the right doctrine. It really is abusive too. For the doctrine is so offensive to being a HUMAN.
And not at all when the CHURCH'S SHEPHERD, Bishop Ceslaw Kozon, completely downplays the sexual assaults against their OWN CATHOLICS. THEN THERE IS NOTHING THAT MAKES SENSE.
And he is praised by Father Gregers that he is a DECENT AND RIGHT-THINKING MAN.
It must be horrible, awful, to stand alone as a woman in such a conversation.
Before the corona shutdown, I attended a study group one Tuesday after the weekday mass. It begins with the worship of Mary and the rosary. Next Mass and then we ate soup together in good fellowship together
The study text they had prepared was about the Catholic Church's relationship with other believers. From other denominations. That is why I took the courage to participate as a non-Catholic. I was very new to attending mass in the Catholic Church.
In the study material, there was the teaching of a POPE. He says there, "that the Catholics do not worship Mary," I read it like that, Whether it is, "like Jesus" he means here, I do not know?
But in St. Michael's Church, people are openly invited to WORSHIP and Rosary, every Tuesday. With the word WORSHIP. And there they kneel and worship Mary: "Hail Mary ..."
During the Mass many Sundays, leaders and the congregation turn to the large statue of Mary, and sing worship from the hymnal of the Catholic Church.
I asked Father Gregers, the other day, why the Pope in question speaks one thing out to other denominations, in the teaching, but you do not hide that you worship Mary inwardly in mass.
I do not understand it. And I did not manage to ask, when I read it, because then I was VERY new. And I really came with an open mind.
We have also been told during a mass, that "PETER WAS THE FIRST POPE IN ROME." I was shocked.
In the study group, Father Gregers, back then advises, that when they meet Christians from the Inner Mission, for example, they must remember that they are people with a great knowledge of the Bible. That, he says, you can give them as a compliment, when you talk to them.
Father Gregers himself was a Lutheran priest for several years.
Then he says, "You must know that you are the best. You are the right ones. Because of succession!"
"apostolic succession
Apostolic follow-up or order. Denotes the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church that the Catholic bishops can trace their consecration by the laying on of hands back to the apostles, who have been entrusted with their authority by Jesus himself, cf. Matthew 16: 16-19 and 18,18 "k
I knew nothing about it either.
It was really uncomfortable and derogatory to listen to as a non-Catholic.
Gregers' theology here seems to be:" GOD / a parent then designates one child over the others and says categorically: "you are the best. You are the right one." and to the others that they are so automatically wrong. The is how less valuable they really must feel then ??
I must say I believe, IF they are truly, the true children of God. God's best children. Then they can well expect that Catholics also have the greatest responsibility to steward.
Sincerely, Lars Krøgholt and Daniela Skov
På dansk ----------
Under messen her 3 oktober 2021,
læste Faders Gregers op fra skabelsesberetningen.
Om at Adam navngav dyrene og ikke fandt nogen ligeværdig partner til ham.
Så lod Gud Adam falde i søvn og Gud tog et ribben fra Adams side og dannede Eva.
Dernæst startede Fader Gregers prædiken med at sige, at det ikke er sikkert,
at det skete på den måde.
"Men det er en fin fortælling. Det er en god historie."
I prædikenen her er Fader Gregers meget konsekvent med, at ordene om ægteskab og skilsmisse i teksten er ABSOLUTTE I kirken. Ingen skilsmisse er mulig. Han siger intet om nogen menneskelige problematikker, der kan forårsage skilsmisse uopretteligt.
Men kirken er fast på, at skabelsen ikke nødvendigvis er som beskrevet. Det var så uventet.
Hvilken af de 2 situationer er mere bibelsk korrekte en det andet??
Jeg skriver så til Fader Gregers og erfarer, at det er hvad KIRKEN lærer, som afgør hvad, der korrekt.
Jeg svarer, at jeg ikke kan tro, at Gud er forvirret omkring selve den måde, Han skabte os på. Jeg forstår ikke, så hvorfor, at ordene om skilsmisse er udenfor mulighed for katolikker, men det får jeg ikke sagt.
Jeg bliver opfordret til at læse YOUCAT, katekismus og så komme til samtale hos Fader Gregers, for der er vist brug for fordybelse, skriver han. Jeg værdsætter, at han altid er parat til at invitere til samtale.
Dagen efter bliver jeg totalt rystet, da jeg erfarer, at der blevet afsløret et massivt seksuelt misbrug af op mod 330.000 mennesker i den katolske kirke i Frankrig fra 1950 helt op til 2020.
Det er sket, mens kirken vendte det blinde øje til. Jeg skriver det til Fader Gregers, som i situationen, lyder som, at han tror, det er sket for 70 år siden. Han synes det er forfærdeligt, ja, men hvad kan man gøre ved noget, som er sket for 70 år siden.
Det går op for mig jo, at han ikke har læst, min medsendte artikel, og derfor ikke ved, det foregår lige nu i vores sydlige nabolande, Frankrig.
Jeg fortæller ham det igen. Så tager han det også alvorligt.
Under messen søndag den 10 oktober 2021 udtaler Gregers virkelig, hvor slemt han finder det i Frankrig. Men han siger at der ikke har været seksuelle misbrugssager i Danmark. Det er uforståeligt at han ikke kender til det.
Lørdag den 16 oktober er menigheden inviteret til engelsk messe.
Humoristisk C C C Coffee, Cake, Cathecesis,
Der er altså undervisning i den katolske lære.
Og der bliver vist billeder af Jomfru Marias optagelse i himlen. Festen for det er 15 august hvert år i den katolske kirkes tro.
Det viser sig, at fordi man aldrig har fundet hendes grav, så er læren, at hun blev taget op til himlen, sagde Fader Gregers.
Læren er også, at Maria er jomfru hele livet, selvom hun var i ægteskab med Josef. Jeg siger, jamen i Mattæus evangeliet kapitel 13 v 55-56 står navnene på Jesu 4 halvbrødre, "Jakob, Josef, Judas, Simon, og at hans søstre bor iblandt os".
Det blev forklaret i katolsk kirke under læren, at de alle I virkeligheden var Jesu fætre og kusiner i stedet.
Maria var KATEGORISK JOMFRU igennem hele ægteskabet med sin mand Josef. Og at fødslen var en jomfrufødsel, anede Lars og jeg ikke. Det er rystende at høre på. En hån mod en sund kvindekrop.
Det er en kerneværdi af virkelige dimensioner i den katolske kirkes lære.
Næste dag forklarer en kvinde i menigheden, som jeg sætter meget højt, Lars og jeg på skrift, at
"selvom det lyder vildt mærkeligt, så skal katolikker tro på dogmet...."
at Maria var jomfru altid og fødslen af Jesu var en JOMFRUFØDSEL.
Hun medsender links til 2 YOUTUBE VIDEOER.
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
DET LYDER VIRKELIG VILDT MÆRKELIGT.
JOMFRUFØDSEL AF JESUS ER AT HUN IKKE FØDTE HAM GENNEM SIN VAGINA, FORDI HUN SKULLE BEVARES SOM JOMFRU. I videoen bliver der forklaret med ordene, at det var en overnaturlig fødsel. At den overnaturlige del kan forstås ligesom LYSET KAN GÅ IGENNEM EN RUDE UDEN AT RUDEN KAN GÅ I STYKKER.
Det lyder som, at hun det ene øjeblik var gravid. Og det næste øjeblik lå han, babyen, der bare.
Jeg spørger Fader Gregers, hvorfor kirken har brug for, at hun er jomfru hele livet. Hvorfor skulle Gud tvinge dem til at leve hele livet i et amputeret ægteskab. Hvorfor dog?
Hvorfor? Hvorfor dog? Jeg spørger virkelig rystet. Gregers svarer så meget lavmælt :" Det er fordi, hun skulle leve som hellig og god."
Jeg hører mig selv svare, at det gør hun vel ikke, når hun unddrager sig i ægteskabet???
Fader Gregers svarer lavmælt, "at han godt kan se, hvad det er jeg siger."
Vi reagerer kraftigt på den katolske kirkes seksuallære, seksualmoral. Vi skriver virkelig rystede til Fader Gregers, hvorfor skal Maria og Josef tvinges til at have et ægteskab med rigtig mange skænderier og problemer. De elsker hinanden og skal bruge alle kræfter på at holde sig fra hinanden gennem mange dage og år. Det virker komplet urealistisk. Og uden mening.
Ligeså at den katolske kirkes seksuallære maltrakterer en kvindekrop, så groft, at Maria skal føde OVERNATURLIGT.
Hendes krop må ikke være, som den er med sunde, helt sunde normale, endog Gud skabte og Gudvillede funktioner.
Hvad er det for ET GUDSSYN?
HVAD I ALVERDEN ER DET FOR ET KVINDESYN?
Samtidig gennem historien i mindst 70 år, HAR MANGE AF KIRKENS EGNE KARDINALER, PRÆSTER IKKE HOLDT SIG TILBAGE MED AT UDØVE SEKSUEL VOLD MOD BØRN OG UNGE OG MOD KVINDER I NONNEORDEN.
SKJULT OG HEMMELIGHOLDT.
De samme mænd som udadtil skulle leve JOMFRUELIGE.
KIRKENS SEKSUALLÆRE FOR DEM, SOM ER I ET ÅNDELIGT KALD ER JOMFRUELIGHED.
Det gik op for os i går, at det er en kerneværdi af een eller anden grund.
Maria var åbenbart også udelukkende virkeligt i et åndeligt kald?? Og hvad med Josef??
De mænd har prædiket.
De mænd har undervist.
De har opført sig UDADTIL som accepteret i kirkens REGI.
DERES SEKSUELLE OVERGREB OG VOLDELIGHED FANDT STED I HEMMELIGHED, MENS DE UDADTIL SPILLEDE KOMEDIE. OG FIK LOV TIL AT GØRE DET.
SAMTIDIG MED AT DE BELÆRER ALLE ANDRE, HVAD DER ER DE RIGTIGE TING IFLG KIRKEN.
VI påstår absolut ikke at alle gejstlige i den katolske kirke lever et skjult liv og udøver seksuel vold mod deres MED- KATOLIKKER i forskellige aldre.
KIRKENS SEKSUALMORAL ER, AT MARIA ER EVIG JOMFRU, FOR AT VÆRE GOD OG HELLIG.
LIGESÅ I 2021 FULD INDBLANDING HELT IND I MENIGHEDENS SOVEVÆRELSER FOR INGEN MÅ BRUGE PRÆVENTION.
MAN HAR INGEN RET TIL AT BLIVE SKILT iflg Fader Gregers prædiken.
MEN DE HAR SLUPPET AFSTED MED AT UDØVE SEKSUEL VOLD MOD SÅ UFATTELIG MANGE MANGES MENNESKER I MANGE NATIONER.
DET ER OPRØRENDE OG RYSTENDE.
VI ANFÆGTER 100 PROCENT DEN KATOLSKE KIRKES LÆRE OM MARIAS LIVSLANGE JOMFRUELIGE LIV PÅ SKRIFT TIL FADER Gregers.
At hun og Josef er blevet budt et forfærdeligt ægteskab.
Vi forstår ikke, at den katolske kirke har ret til at fylde så meget i menneskers liv på det seksuelle område, helt op i 2021, NÅR SÅ UFATTELIG MANGE PRÆSTER HAR ØDELAGT SÅ UENDELIG MANGE BØRN OG UNGES HELE LIV.
Fuldstændig grænseløst.
Fader Gregers er meget rystet over de seksuelle overgreb i Frankrig.
Han fortæller menigheden, hvilke forholdsregler, der er i kirken i Danmark, for størst muligt at sikre, det ikke sker i Danmark.
Men han siger til menigheden, at der ikke er sket seksuelle overgreb i den katolske kirke i Danmark.
Det forstår vi ganske enkelt ikke, for det har da været fremme engang.
Vi skriver til Gregers, Menighedsrådet og en kvinde i menigheden, som var aktivt med til at undervise de unge, sidste år, der skulle firmes. (Konfirmeres.)Hun får de her ting tilsendt.
Jeg sætter dig virkelig højt.
Hvad er det, som vil ske, for dig, hvis du virkelig lytter til sin egen måde, at tænke på, som menneske, som kvinde?? "At det lyder vildt mærkeligt." siger du.
At biblen giver os frihed til at være naturlige, sunde mennesker :
Efeserbrevet kapitel 4 v 14:
Da skal vi ikke længere være uforstandige børn og slynges og drives hid og did af hver lærdoms vind, ved menneskers terningkast, når de med snedighed fører os på lumske afveje,
Børn og unge bliver også inddraget i alt, hvad, der blir sagt under messen og da vi har catechesis lørdag den 16 oktober 2021, altså undervisning, for de sidder jo i samme lokale.
Vi skriver, fordi kirken også lærer unge mennesker om kirkens seksuallære mht Marias livslange jomfruelighed, der gør hende god og hellig. Sikke et forkvaklet syn på seksualitet og deres egne kroppe, de får ind, fra den indgående katolsk lære.
Samtidig er det netop børn og unge, der blir ødelagt seksuelt af præster i alle mulige lande.
Det kan ikke argumenteres bort.
VI spørger Fader Gregers om det er biskoppen, der har fået ham til at tro, at der ikke har forekommet seksuelle overgreb mod mennesker i kirken i Danmark. Fordi biskop Ceslaw Kozon I den grad har bagatelliseret og nedtonet alvoren i krænkelser i Danmark i 2010.
De 2 gejstlige mænd må jo have talt sammen i årevis siden 2010????
Fader Gregers blir virkelig oprørt og kalder sin foresatte Biskop Ceslaw Kozon for en ANSTÆNDIG OG RETTÆNKENDE MAND.
Jfr. SMS.
PÅ TRODS AF, AT BISKOPPENS UDTALELSER VISER,AT HAN ER LIGEGLAD SELV MED KATOLIKKER.
SINE EGNE. NÅR DE ER OFRE.
HAN SIGER OM ET AF OFRENE, formildende for kirken, at det ikke var et barn i juridisk forstand, men en ung. Betyder det fra over den seksuelle lavalder
HAN FORBIGÅR FULDT UD, AT DER IKKE ER SAMTYKKE FRA DEN UNGE, TIL AT PRÆSTEN MÅ BEFAMLE DEN UNGE SEKSUELT PÅ NOGEN MULIG MÅDE.
BISKOPPEN vil helst bare have fred og ro til at forkynde evangeliet.
Og til vores forskrækkelse, så skriver Gregers intet tilbage til os, om at han lytter til at der har været seksuelle overgreb mod børn og unge i kirken i Danmark.
Det er meget svært som forældre og bedsteforældre, at få vort første indtryk af biskoppen, som en mand, der er meget ligeglad med KATOLSKE OFRE I DANMARK.
At vi så skal sluge, at han er en ANSTÆNDIG OG RETTÆNKENDE MAND, det er rystende.
SMS fra Fader Gregers :
Kære Daniela (og Dragana og Ulla til orientering).
Jeg har kendt Biskop Kozon i mere end 25 år og har haft rigtigt meget med ham at at gøre igennem tiden. Jeg har af og til været uenig med ham. Men jeg aldrig oplevet, at han (eller for den sags skyld paven) har fejlinformeret eller har sagt eet til nogen og noget andet til andre. Jeg holder meget af Biskop Kozon. Han er anstændigt og rettænkende menneske. Som hyrde for Den katolske Kirke i Danmark har jeg fuld tillid til ham.
Daniela, jeg har tilbudt dig en samtale, hvor vi kunne drøfte tingene. Dette tilbud står stadig ved magt. Jeg vil fra nu af ikke besvare din lange SMSer. Kun korte SMSer med PRAKTISKE informationer, spørgsmål og svar vil besvare og tillade mig selv at sende.
Kærlig hilsen
Gregers
Jeg vil ikke kunne stå i en samtale udelukkende med Fader Gregers. Jeg mener, at kirkens seksuelle lære om Maria er så krænkende mod kvinder og imod sex i ægteskabet. Det er også dybt krænkende mod Josef, ikke kun Maria.
Imod de 2 og deres ægteskab. Og de var ikke engang katolikker, de er jøder, ligesom Jesus er jøde.
Hvorfor skulle de overhovedet være gifte, Josef og Maria.
Hvorfor skulle Josef overhovedet være der, når hun kun er hellig og god på passende afstand af ham.
Og kirken har lavet så groteske krumspring, hvor de totalt benægter at Maria og Josef, kan have været VIRKELIGE MENNESKER.
blandt andet at deres navngivne børn er fætre, unavngivne er kusiner.
Selvom bibelen er normal og naturlig omkring det seksuelle, og Mattæus skriver i forbindelse med det, som vi vist normalt kender som juleevangeliet,
»Se, jomfruen skal blive med barn og føde en søn, og de skal give ham navnet Immanuel« – det betyder: Gud med os. Da Josef var vågnet op af søvnen, gjorde han, som Herrens engel havde befalet ham, og tog hende til sig som sin hustru. Men han lå ikke med hende, før hun fødte sin søn. Og han gav ham navnet Jesus.
Mattæus kapitel 1vers 23-25,
at Josef og Maria har seksuelt samliv, efter at hun har født Jesus, så går den katolske kirke til yderligheder for, at fastholde for børn, unge og voksne, dogmet om Maria som FOR EVIG JOMFRU.
Kirkens lære om Jesu fødsel og vore naturlige kroppe. Det er et dybt overgreb mod KVINDER.
I den katolske kirkes seksual lære.
Ja, også mod MANDEN. Han får ikke lov, at være en sund, naturlig mand.
Mener kirken, at de bare ikke havde de følelser, eller hvad??
Jeg skal ikke bare til en samtale alene med Fader Gregers , for at udsættes for, at få at vide, HVAD det er den rigtige lære. Det er virkelig også overgreb. For læren er så krænkende mod at være et MENNESKE.
Og da slet ikke, når KIRKENS HYRDE, altså Biskop Ceslaw Kozon jo fuldstændig bagatelliserer de seksuelle overgreb mod deres EGNE KATOLIKKER. SÅ ER DER INTET, DER GIR MENING.
Og han blir rost af Fader Gregers, at han er en ANSTÆNDIG OG RETTÆNKENDE MAND.
Det må være frygteligt, forfærdeligt, at stå ene kvinde i sådan en samtale.
Før corona nedlukningen var jeg med til en studiegruppe aften en tirsdag efter hverdagsmessen. Der er først tilbedelse af Maria og rosenkrans. Dernæst messe og så spiste vi suppe sammen i godt fællesskab.
Studieteksten som de havde forberedt handlede om den katolske kirkes forhold til andre troende. Fra andre trossamfund. Det var derfor, at jeg tog mod til at deltage som ikke katolik. Jeg var meget ny i at være med i den katolske kirke.
I studiematerialet, stod der undervisning af en PAVE. Han siger der, "at katolikkerne ikke tilbeder Maria, " fæstner jeg mig ved. Om det er, som Jesus, ved jeg ikke?
Men i Skt Michaels Kirke blir der åbent inviteret til TILBEDELSE og rosenkrans, hver tirsdag. Med ordet TILBEDELSE. Og der knæler de og tilbeder Maria :"Hil dig Maria..."
Under messen mange søndage vender ledere og menigheden sig mod den store Maria statue, og synger tilbedelse fra katolsk kirkes salmebog.
Jeg spørger Fader Gregers, forleden, hvorfor den pgl Pave taler een ting ud til andre trossamfund, i undervisningen, men I jo ikke lægger skjul på, at I tilbeder Maria.
Jeg forstår, det ikke. Og jeg fik ikke spurgt, dengang jeg læste det, for da var jeg MEGET ny. Og jeg kom virkelig med et åbent sind.
Vi er osse blevet fortalt under en søndags messe, at "PETER VÆR DEN FØRSTE PAVE I ROM. "
Jeg var chokeret.
I studiegruppen rådgiver Fader Gregers, at når de møder kristne fx fra Indre Mission, skal de huske, at det er mennesker med et stort kendskab til bibelen. Det, siger han, kan I give dem som ros, når I taler med dem.
Fader Gregers var selv i flere år Luthersk præst.
Så siger han, at " I skal vide at I er de bedste. I er de rigtige. Pga successionen!"
"apostolsk succession
Apostolsk efterfølgelse eller rækkefølge. Betegner Den Romersk-katolske Kirkes lære om, at de katolske biskopper kan føre deres indvielse ved håndspålæggelse tilbage til apostlene, som har fået overdraget deres fuldmagt af Jesus selv, jf. Matthæus 16,16-19 og 18,18"
Jeg kendte intet til det heller.
Det var virkelig ubehageligt og nedsættende, at høre på, som ikke katolik.
Teologien Gregers har er : GUD / en forældre udpeger så eet barn foran de andre og siger kategorisk :" du er den bedste. Du er den rigtige." og til de andre, at de så automatisk er forkerte. Det må de mindre værdifulde virkelig føle??
Jeg må sige, at er de virkelig Guds rigtige børn. Guds bedste børn, så kan de vel forvente, at katolikkerne også har det største ansvar at forvalte.
Med venlig hilsen Lars Krøgholt og Daniela Skov
Dansk biskop: Også misbrug i den katolske kirke i Danmark
Why does Bishop Ceslaw Kozon not use the word CRIMINAL. NO CONSENT. OR SUPPORT THE MOTHER AND DAUGHTER IT IS IMPORTANT TO TAKE SUCH MATTERS TO THE POLICE. They are left 100 percent there alone with him, an authority and power over them. The whole is orchestrated only to please the church. Back then it would take immense strength to say anything about the church to the leaders. He is responsible, as the shepherd leader figure to say, this is a criminal act committed without your consent, HOW CAN I HELP YOU.
Kristeligt Dagblad
INTERVIEW16.03.10 KL. 00:00
Danish bishop: Also abuse in the Catholic Church in Denmark
Pedophilia has also taken place in the Catholic Church in Denmark, but the bishop refuses to investigate the matter further

Tobias Stern Johansen
Correspondent, Germany
FOLLOW
Ceslaw Kozon is the bishop and leader of the approximately 35,000 Danish Catholics. - Photo:.
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Czeslaw Kozon, do you know of any cases of child abuse in the Catholic Church here?
- There has been four or five cases within the last 100 years, and none of them have taken place while I have been a bishop. Most cases lie so far back that I have only heard of them indirectly and not at all from the victims themselves. I do not want to call them rumors, but it is information that has come to light long after it has happened, and without a request for any kind of intervention. These are ordinary Catholics who have heard something about a priest or an employee. It is never something that has formally come to the table as pedophilia in the strictest sense.
ALSO READ: The Pope in the spotlight for concealing abuse
Why have the victims not asked the church to intervene?
THE ARTICLE CONTINUES UNDER THE AD
- We usually do not know the victims. And not at all when it's decades back. I once received an inquiry from a mother whose daughter had experienced something with a priest. But the mother did not demand that the case be taken up. The pastor was dying at the time, and therefore she saw no reason to proceed with the case. The priests involved have died today except one and he is no longer in active service. So it is no longer relevant.
Why not investigate the case of the priest who is still alive?
- The case took place in the late 1980s, and I only became aware of it in 2003. We looked closely at it and found that there was no basis for a police report because the case was obsolete according to Danish case law.
- The pastor could still remain as a pastor in the church, but based on restrictions that he could not deal with children and young people - he could, for example, work as a pastor in an old people's home. However, he did not want to submit to the restrictions and therefore chose to leave the ministry in 2003.
- The victim was not a child in the legal sense, but a younger person. We had contact with him and the relatives, but he did not want our help at that time. Of course, he was very hurt, but I do not have the impression that he was angry at the church and therefore did not want help.
There could be an important signal value in investigating the four to five cases thoroughly. Will you do it?
- No, I would rather concentrate on what may come from people who in current situations think they have experienced something and want help. When it comes to dead priests and cases dating back decades, it would be very difficult to find out what has gone on.
What are you doing to prevent child abuse or to help victims of abuse in the Catholic Church?
- Now we have a contingency plan and a leaflet with information on where people can turn to if they have been abused. Here we say unequivocally that it is not our wish that people should sit inside with something that torments them. But we can only listen to those who may apply.
What is the contingency plan about?
- We have appointed a priest and a psychologist that people can turn to. They will keep me informed of what they hear. If there is a case, we will discuss it and pass it on to a professional council consisting of a lawyer and a social worker who are not Catholics, and who will advise us in relation to what we should do next.
Will you report a priest to the police if you are advised to do so?
No. It is the victims or the victims' guardians who must report cases. We are not obliged as a church to report, but we will of course assist the victims in any kind of clarification.
Why made in a contingency plan and a leaflet?
- Because of the cases of abuse that have been in the US and Ireland and elsewhere. We would like to indicate to any victims that this is something we take seriously and that we will help them in the best possible way.
Can you deny that abuse takes place in the Catholic Church in Denmark?
- You never know before it is reported. But I have no reason to suppose anything is going on. We have not taken any special precautions other than obtaining statutory child certificates.
So you make sure to obtain child certificates for the employees who deal with children?
- Yes. Every time a priest has to be hired, we obtain a child certificate. I check this in the incoming mail to the church. Therefore, I can say with 100 percent certainty that it is being done for the clergy.
What about other employees and volunteers?
- Here it is the responsibility of the ward councils or the Catholic organizations in question to obtain child certificates. What is going on in the Catholic schools, I have no insight into. Purely ecclesiastical, it is my responsibility, but legally they are responsible.
We have heard of widespread child abuse in the Catholic Church in the United States, Ireland, Austria, the Netherlands, and most recently Germany. Why do you think there are so many cases in the Catholic Church?
- Despite the tragedy that it takes place in the Catholic Church, it must be remembered that the vast majority of assaults take place under non-church auspices and are committed by people who have not committed themselves to living in celibacy. There have always been sharp vessels in all human contexts - ecclesiastical or not.
- We must also keep in mind that these are not cases that have taken place within the last 14 days, but within the last decades. Even though it makes a violent impression, only a small proportion of the Catholic clergy have been guilty of abuse. Had these cases been taken along the way, they would still have been regrettable, but they would not have made such a violent impression. It is a large collection of cases that should have been tackled differently in the past. That it now comes to the table at once does not mean that it is only particularly bad in the Catholic Church.
What do the many cases mean for the Catholic Church in Denmark?
- The cases are deeply shameful and regrettable. It is not the case that people turn their backs on the church and stop coming to church. But it can not fail to influence people's views of the church. We need to spend a lot of time commenting and explaining where we would most like to focus on our mission - to preach the gospel and gather people in the church.
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INTERVIEW
16.03.10 KL. 00:00
Dansk biskop: Også misbrug i den katolske kirke i Danmark
Pædofili har også fundet sted i den katolske kirke i Danmark, men biskoppen afviser at undersøge sagen nærmere
Korrespondent, Tyskland
Czeslaw Kozon, kender du til sager om misbrug af børn i den katolske kirke herhjemme?
– Der har været fire-fem sager inden for de sidste 100 år, og ingen af dem har fundet sted, mens jeg har været biskop. De fleste sager ligger så langt tilbage, at jeg kun har hørt om dem indirekte og slet ikke fra ofrene selv. Jeg vil ikke kalde dem rygter, men det er oplysninger, der er kommet frem lang tid efter, at det er sket, og uden anmodning om nogen form for indgriben. Der er tale om almindelige katolikker, der har hørt noget om en præst eller en medarbejder. Det er aldrig noget, der formelt er kommet på bordet som pædofili i strengeste forstand.
LÆS OGSÅ: Paven i søgelyset for fortielse af misbrug
Hvorfor har ofrene ikke bedt kirken gribe ind?
– Ofrene kender vi som regel ikke. Og slet ikke, når det ligger flere årtier tilbage. Jeg har en gang fået en henvendelse fra en mor, hvis datter havde oplevet noget med en præst. Men moderen forlangte ikke, at sagen skulle tages op. Præsten var døende på det tidspunkt, og derfor så hun ingen anledning til at gå videre med sagen. De involverede præster er døde i dag på nær en, og han er ikke længere i aktiv tjeneste. Så det er ikke længere aktuelt.
Hvorfor ikke undersøge sagen om den præst, der stadig er i live?
– Sagen fandt sted i slutningen af 1980?erne, og jeg fik først kendskab til den i 2003. Vi kiggede nøje på den og fandt ud af, at der ikke var grundlag for en politianmeldelse, fordi sagen ifølge dansk retspraksis var forældet.
– Præsten kunne stadig forblive som præst i kirken, men ud fra restriktioner om, at han ikke kunne have med børn og unge at gøre – han kunne for eksempel arbejde som præst på plejehjem. Men han ville ikke underkaste sig restriktionerne og valgte derfor selv at forlade præstegerningen i 2003.
– Ofret var ikke et barn i juridisk forstand, men et yngre menneske. Vi havde kontakt med vedkommende og de pårørende, men vedkommende ønskede ikke vores hjælp på det tidspunkt. Selvfølgelig var vedkommende meget såret, men jeg har ikke indtryk af, at vedkommende var vred på kirken og derfor ikke ville have hjælp.
Der kunne være en vigtig signalværdi i at undersøge de fire-fem sager til bunds. Vil du gøre det?
– Nej, jeg vil hellere koncentrere mig om, hvad der måtte komme af mennesker, der i aktuelle situationer mener at have oplevet noget og ønsker hjælp. Når det drejer sig om døde præster og sager, der ligger årtier tilbage, ville det blive meget vanskeligt at finde ud af, hvad der er foregået.
Hvad gør I for at hindre overgreb på børn eller hjælpe ofre for overgreb i den katolske kirke?
– Nu har vi en beredskabsplan og en folder med oplysninger om, hvor folk kan henvende sig, hvis de har været udsat for overgreb. Her siger vi utvetydigt, at det ikke er vores ønske, at folk skal sidde inde med noget, som piner dem. Men vi kan kun lytte til dem, der måtte henvende sig.
Hvad går den beredskabsplan ud på?
– Vi har udpeget en præst og en psykolog, som folk kan henvende sig til. De vil holde mig underrettet om, hvad de hører. Kommer der en sag, vil vi drøfte den og give den videre til et fagetisk råd bestående af en jurist og en socialrådgiver, som ikke er katolikker, og som vil rådgive os i forhold til, hvad vi videre skal gøre.
Vil I melde en præst til politiet, hvis I bliver rådet til det?
Nej. Det er ofrene eller ofrenes værge, der skal anmelde sager. Vi er ikke forpligtet som kirke til at anmelde, men vi vil selvfølgelig bistå ofrene i enhver form for opklaring.
Hvorfor lavede i en beredskabsplan og en folder?
– På grund af de sager om overgreb, der har været i USA og Irland og andre steder. Vi ville gerne tilkendegive over for eventuelle ofre, at det her er noget, vi tager alvorligt, og at vi vil hjælpe dem bedst muligt.
Kan du afvise, at der finder overgreb sted i den katolske kirke i Danmark?
– Det ved man jo aldrig, før det bliver meldt. Men jeg har ingen grund til at formode, at der foregår noget. Vi har ikke truffet særlige forholdsregler ud over at indhente lovpligtige børneattester.
Så I sørger for at indhente børneattester på de medarbejdere, der har med børn at gøre?
– Ja. Hver gang en præst skal ansættes, indhenter vi børneattest. Det tjekker jeg i den indgående post til kirken. Derfor kan jeg med 100 procents sikkerhed sige, at det for præsternes vedkommende bliver gjort.
Hvad med andre ansatte og frivillige medarbejdere?
– Her er det menighedsrådenes eller de pågældende katolske organisationers ansvar at indhente børneattester. Hvad der foregår på de katolske skoler, har jeg ikke indblik i. Rent kirkeligt er det mit ansvar, men juridisk set sidder de selv med ansvaret.
Vi har hørt om omfattende misbrug af børn i den katolske kirke i USA, Irland, Østrig, Holland og senest Tyskland. Hvorfor mener du, der er så mange sager netop i den katolske kirke?
– Trods det tragiske i, at det foregår i den katolske kirke, skal man huske, at langt de fleste overgreb foregår i ikke-kirkeligt regi og begås af mennesker, som ikke har forpligtet sig til at leve i cølibat. Der har altid været brodne kar i alle menneskelige sammenhænge – kirkelige eller ej.
– Vi skal også huske på, at det ikke er sager, som er foregået inden for de sidste 14 dage, men inden for de sidste årtier. Selvom det gør et voldsomt indtryk, så er det stadig kun en ringe del af de katolske gejstlige, der har gjort sig skyldige i misbrug. Var de her sager taget hen ad vejen, havde de stadig været beklagelige, men de ville ikke have gjort så voldsomt et indtryk. Det er en stor opsamling af sager, der skulle have været tacklet anderledes i fortiden. At det nu kommer på bordet på en gang, betyder ikke, at det kun er særligt slemt i den katolske kirke.
Hvad betyder de mange sager for den katolske kirke i Danmark?
– Sagerne er dybt beskæmmende og beklagelige. Det er ikke sådan, at folk vender kirken ryggen og holder op med at komme i kirken. Men det kan ikke undgå at påvirke folks syn på kirken. Vi skal bruge meget tid på at afgive kommentarer og forklaringer, hvor vi allerhelst ville koncentrere os om vores mission – at forkynde evangeliet og samle folk i kirken.
Massiv kritik af katolsk biskop
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Massive criticism of Catholic bishop
The Catholic bishop in Denmark puts the church's credibility in jeopardy by not wanting to investigate old cases of sex abuse
Kristeligt Dagblad
18.03.10 KL. 00:00
Massive criticism of Catholic bishop
The Catholic bishop in Denmark puts the church's credibility in jeopardy by not wanting to investigate old cases of sex abuse
Tobias Stern Johansen
Correspondent, Germany
FOLLOW
Bishop of the country's approximately 35,000 Catholics, Czeslaw Kozon, who is seen here in the Catholic Cathedral in Copenhagen, is now subjected to massive criticism from experts in law and children's rights for statements in (nationwide Christian Daily Newspaper) Kristeligt Dagblad about the church's way of handling four or five cases of sex abuse in the church on. Photo: Keld Navntoft.
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SAVE ARTICLE
The Catholic Church's credibility in Denmark is suffering a colossal blow, and the blame lies with the church's head, Bishop Czeslaw Kozon.
This is the criticism from a number of researchers in law, theology and children's rights as well as from the church's own backyard, after the Catholic bishop in Denmark the other day said that the church is neither obliged to investigate old cases of child sexual abuse or report any new cases to the police. Czeslaw Kozon himself knows of four or five cases back in the 1980s or earlier of abuse of children and young people in the Catholic Church in Denmark, which have never been reported to the authorities.
ALSO READ: Danish bishop: Also abuse in the Catholic Church in Denmark
Thus, the bishop is at odds with the law, says professor and dr.jur. at the Faculty of Law at the University of Copenhagen, Kirsten Ketscher.
- A large institution such as the Catholic Church is in every way legally responsible for cases of abuse being investigated and stopped. You do not do this by saying that you do not want to investigate previous assaults or report new assaults to the police, she says, adding that the bishop may be violating the law.
THE ARTICLE CONTINUES UNDER THE AD
ALSO READ: The bishop holds his hand over abuse
- If he knows that children have been abused and at the same time expresses that the victims themselves must cope, it may in the extreme consequence be a form of crime of omission in relation to the penal code. His reasoning that the priests in question are dead or taken out of service does not matter. The cases have not been investigated by the police, says Kirsten Ketscher.
The bishop's refusal to report cases to the police can act as a protection for perpetrators, assesses Caroline Adolphsen, PhD fellow at the Department of Law, Aarhus University, specializing in the rights of minors.
- It is deeply problematic to say such a thing. Although it can be argued that he has no criminal duty to go to the police, his statement has a problematic signal value. The signal he sends to both victims and potential violators is that this is something we solve internally in the church - we do not involve the authorities in it, she says.
According to Peter Lodberg, head of studies and associate professor of theology at Aarhus University, not digging the four or five cases of abuse will have fatal consequences for the church:
- If the church does nothing, things will be like a snowball that rolls and becomes so big that it will destroy the Catholic Church's support and credibility in Denmark. These cases are so serious that you just have to get to the bottom of them, he says.
According to Per Schultz Jørgensen, member of the Children's Council and professor and dr.phil. in psychology specializing in children and adolescents, the bishop and the Catholic Church do not, as lay people, have to decide whether a case should be reported or not.
- If the case is deemed to fall under the law as an illegal act against children and young people, the authorities must decide what should be done. Everything else can only be perceived as running from his responsibility, he says.
The criticism of the bishop also comes from the church's own ranks.
In a post in Kristeligt Dagblad today, Catholic Hans Riese criticizes Catholic leaders, including the Danish bishop, for the "total lack of will and ability to self-examine" in connection with pedophile cases.
- I do not know who it is that advises Bishop Kozon, but it seems as if the bishop is totally unaware of what is moving among the laity, he writes.
Bishop Czeslaw Kozon still refuses to investigate previous cases of sex abuse, and he believes the criticism of not wanting to report cases to the police is unwarranted.
- This is not a position of principle, even though I have received a lawyer's statement that there is no notification obligation. I would like to modify my statement and say that if a serious and impartial advice says something other than what I have said before, then I will listen to it. But I do not want to take a stand on future situations until they are available. The only thing I can say now is that I will consult with our professional council so as not to overreact or fail to react if a new case arises.
ALSO READ: Child Experts Require Sex Abuse Investigated
Massiv kritik af katolsk biskop
Kristeligt Dagblad
18.03.10 KL. 00:00
Massiv kritik af katolsk biskop
Den katolske biskop i Danmark sætter kirkens troværdighed over styr ved ikke at ville undersøge gamle sager om sexmisbrug
Tobias Stern Johansen
Korrespondent, Tyskland
FØLG
Biskop for landets cirka 35.000 katolikker, Czeslaw Kozon, som her ses i den katolske domkirke i København, udsættes nu for massiv kritik fra eksperter i jura og børns rettigheder for udtalelser i Kristeligt Dagblad om kirkens måde at håndtere fire-fem sager om sexmisbrug i kirken på. Foto: Keld Navntoft.
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GEM ARTIKEL
Den katolske kirkes troværdighed i Danmark er i færd med at lide et kolossalt knæk, og skylden ligger hos kirkens overhoved, biskop Czeslaw Kozon.
Sådan lyder kritikken fra en række forskere i jura, teologi og børns rettigheder samt fra kirkens eget bagland, efter at den katolske biskop i Danmark forleden sagde, at kirken hverken er forpligtet til at undersøge gamle sager om sexmisbrug af børn eller anmelde eventuelle nye sager til politiet. Czeslaw Kozon kender selv til fire-fem tilfælde tilbage i 1980'erne eller tidligere af overgreb på børn og unge i den katolske kirke i Danmark, som aldrig er blevet meldt til myndighederne.
LÆS OGSÅ: Dansk biskop: Også misbrug i den katolske kirke i Danmark
Dermed er biskoppen på kant med loven, mener professor og dr.jur. ved det juridiske fakultet på Københavns Universitet, Kirsten Ketscher.
– En stor institution som den katolske kirke er på alle måder juridisk ansvarlig for, at sager om overgreb bliver undersøgt og stoppet. Det gør man ikke ved at sige, at man hverken vil undersøge tidligere overgreb eller melde nye overgreb til politiet, siger hun og tilføjer, at biskoppen muligvis overtræder loven.
ARTIKLEN FORTSÆTTER UNDER ANNONCEN
LÆS OGSÅ: Biskoppen holder hånden over overgreb
– Hvis han ved, at børn er blevet misbrugt og samtidig giver udtryk for, at det må ofrene selv klare, kan det i yderste konsekvens dreje sig om en form for undladelsesforbrydelse i relation til straffeloven. Hans begrundelse med, at de pågældende præster er døde eller taget ud af tjeneste, er ligegyldig. Sagerne er jo ikke politimæssigt efterforsket, siger Kirsten Ketscher.
Biskoppens afvisning af at melde sager til politiet kan virke som en beskyttelse af overgrebsmænd, vurderer Caroline Adolphsen, ph.d.-stipendiat ved juridisk institut, Aarhus Universitet, med speciale i mindreåriges rettigheder.
– Det er dybt problematisk at sige sådan noget. Selvom man kan argumentere for, at han ikke har strafferetlig pligt til at gå til politiet, har hans udsagn en problematisk signalværdi. Det signal, han sender til både ofre og potentielle krænkere, er, at det her er noget, vi løser internt i kirken – det blander vi ikke myndighederne ind i, siger hun.
Ifølge studieleder og lektor i teologi ved Aarhus Universitet, Peter Lodberg, vil det få fatale konsekvenser for kirken ikke at kulegrave de fire-fem sager om misbrug:
– Hvis kirken ingenting gør, vil sagerne være som en snebold, der ruller og bliver så stor, at den vil ødelægge den katolske kirkes opbakning og troværdighed i Danmark. Disse sager har så alvorlig karakter, at dem skal man bare til bunds i, siger han.
Ifølge Per Schultz Jørgensen, medlem af Børnerådet og professor og dr.phil. i psykologi med speciale i børn og unge, skal biskoppen og den katolske kirke ikke som lægmænd afgøre, om en sag skal anmeldes eller ej.
– Hvis sagen skønnes at falde ind under lovgivningen som en ulovlig handling mod børn og unge, skal myndighederne afgøre, hvad der bør gøres. Alt andet kan kun opfattes som at løbe fra sit ansvar, siger han.
Kritikken af biskoppen kommer også fra kirkens egne rækker.
I et indlæg i Kristeligt Dagblad i dag kritiserer katolik Hans Riese katolske ledere, herunder den danske biskop, for den "totale mangel på vilje og evne til selvransagelse" i forbindelse med pædofilisager.
– Jeg ved ikke, hvem det er, der rådgiver biskop Kozon, men det synes som om, biskoppen er totalt uvidende om, hvad der rører sig blandt lægfolket, skriver han.
Biskop Czeslaw Kozon afviser stadig at undersøge tidligere sager om sexmisbrug, og han mener, at kritikken af ikke at ville anmelde sager til politiet er uberettiget.
– Der er ikke tale om en principholdning, selvom jeg har fået en jurists udsagn for, at der ikke er anmeldelsespligt. Jeg vil gerne modificere mit udsagn og sige, at hvis en seriøs og uvildig rådgivning siger noget andet end det, jeg tidligere har sagt, så vil jeg lytte til det. Men jeg ønsker ikke at tage stilling til fremtidige situationer, før de foreligger. Det eneste, jeg nu kan sige, er, at jeg vil rådføre mig med vores fagetiske råd for hverken at overreagere eller undlade at reagere, hvis en ny sag foreligger.
LÆS OGSÅ: Børneeksperter kræver sexmisbrug undersøgt
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