Embedded Files
Deres Majestæt!
Kære Brødremenigheden i Christiansfeld ved pastor Jørgen Boytler
Kære Kirkeminister Bertel Haarder
Kære præster, provster og biskopper
Mediekommentar af Jesper Bacher i Kristeligt Dagblad 2. december 2015
Blandt kommentarerne under artiklen vil vi gerne fremhæve pastor Jørgen Boytlers kommentar.
Efter at have læst denne mediekommentar skriver Daniela til Jesper Bacher:
Kære Jesper Bacher‼
Jeg undrer mig over din undren og træthed som du gir udtryk for vedr. Anders Agger. Det er da som ved Reformationen for 500 år siden og ligeså nu KIRKEN der har ANSVAR for at almindelige danskere IKKE finder Gud i kirken. Der sker alt for meget underfundighed i GUDS hus desværre og det er svært at forstå biskopper og mange præsters ord om kirke, som lever sit liv i samfundet i kraft af traditioner og ikke i samklang i PRAKTISK VIRKE I NÆSTEKÆRLIGHED. Det er blot reduceret til et trademark så når BISKOPPER OG PRÆSTER SIGER EET OG REELT VISER DET MODSATTE I HANDLING OG ENDOG STÅR SAMMEN MED VESTJYSK POLITI I NOGET SÅ SAMTIDS RELEVANT SOM LØGNE FRA POLITI OG EMBEDSMISBRUG FRA PRÆST ACCEPTERET AF ALLE DANSKE BISKOPPER MOD BEDRE VIDEN
- hvordan skal vi BORGERE SÅ BEGRIBE HVAD I TALER OM? Og kirken med sit budskab og en JESUS der ikke er fysisk opstået eller biologisk men eet mysterie, der reelt så indebærer at GUD ER DØD NÅR BISKOPPER MFL MENER AT GUDS SØN IKKE OPSTOD FYSISK...
Hvordan skal Anders Agger og vi andre så kunne undgå at være forvirrede på et desværre højere plan, som man siger???
Den sag vi her står i har ødelagt vore liv og kørt siden 2012. Se hjemmesiden og så kan du måske finde mere forståelse for så mange almindelige borgeres EFTERLYSNING af at kirken er
Mvh Daniela Skov og Lars Skov Krøgholt
[PS] Nedenstående er sendt i dag til Biskop Henrik Stubkjær i VIBORG OG BORGERE I HJERM SOM ER HANS STIFT. Han kan forklare dig hvad det drejer sig om. Det er en offentlig sag helt op i JUSTITSMINISTERIET og alt bliver lagt offentligt frem, da I præster er offentlige personer og provster, biskopper og menighedsråd- ALT ER DEMOKRATISK FOLKEVALGT OG UNDER STORT ANSVAR FOR GUD OG OS BORGERE. Ja I får endog penge via vore skattekroner !!!!
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Må vi minde om, at Sognepræst Jonas Serner-Pedersen ikke ejer menigheden og kirken i HJERM, men han har underskrevet og dermed med sin personlige underskrift forpligtet sig på at udføre sit embede ud fra de etiske og moralske værdier i præsteløftet‼ Det gælder jo også dig, Biskop Henrik Stubkjær og der er intet i løftet som menigheden i Hjerm, Viborg, ja i Danmark skal forpligte sig og stole på og have tillid til jer præsters lederskab og dømmekraft, når det at overholde præsteløftet i praksis ikke betyder noget for jer personligt‼ Løftebrud i praksis har den fulde konsekvens at i ikke kan forvente, at nogen tror på noget som helst af det I siger i forkyndelse, såvel som udtalelser i aviser og kirkeblad og på tv. Tillid er en skrøbelig sag‼ Den må man gøre sig fortjent til hos sine medborgere, såvel som i vore ægteskaber. Hos vore børn. Politikerlede og mistillid så massivt som nu i 2015 i Danmark og ud i nationen, hører vi om hele tiden, og vi har selv den mangel på tillid til vore folkevalgte. Borgerne i Hjerm har krav på at vide, hvad de og deres by er rodet ud i. De er ikke til for Jonas’ skyld og for din skyld og for at I skal have en karriere. De bor i sognet i måske mange år forud og fremadrettet. En præst er ofte kun en tid på stedet, og det er præstens forpligtelse at komme til folk og en egn med respekt og bevare ydmyghed over for menneskene og opgaven.
Dette er sendt til følgende:
Kære Ellen Refsgaard Burkal, Anne Offersen, Kristina Pærregaard, Jesper Lykke Andersen, Erna Bødker Jensen, Karen Steensgaard Clausen, Mogens Munksgaard, Diana Vejrsø Kruse, Aase Stoltenberg, Niels Ausum, Tine Juhl Larsen, Nicole Væring Brander, Kathrine Elmholdt Mortensen, Lise Nørgaard Hansen, Vinni Sadolin Hvid, Marion Jakobsen, Jannie Aslak Gilberg, Flemming Rohr Pedersen, Inge Saugmandsgaard, Else Nielsen, Hans Jørgen Christensen, Siv Nybo, Elise Skautrup Pedersen, Helle Voigt Støve, Anni Winther-Clausen, Birthe Sadolin, Karin Madsen, Anna-Maria Hvidtved, Thomas Pasgård Henriksen, Niels Nørsøller, Else Rimpler, Anne Mette Hvidtved Hansen, Gitte Bredgaard Agerholm, Maria Lundgaard-Karlshøj, Karina Kjeldahl Andersen, Anne Impgaard Madsen, Elitha Elisa Wittrup Thorup, Heidi Elisabeth Svanborg-Bøger, Sanne Rydahl, Annemaria Krog Johansen, Bianca Gutheil Alsen, Jane Møller Jensen, Karen Henneberg, Susanne Madsen, Camilla Wibroe Henneberg, Ulla Kjaerulf, Ina Fielsø, Nina Bach Ibsgaard, Helene Ørskov Rytter, Mona Hyldahl, Karina Hyldal Nissen, Dorthe Mark Olesen, Lise Lillelund Sørensen, Christina Sander Bærentzen, Tom K.Demming, Ellinor Normann Pedersen, Anja Hoffmann, Jette Rasmussen, Lilly V. Pedersen, Ellen Meldgaard, Tove Larsen, Line Henriksen og Mona Hyldal.
Vi sender dette til dig, som Jonas Serner-Pedersens kolleger i Hjerm kirker har fået tilsendt. Det samme er tilsendt til hver eneste danske biskop og deres kolleger i hver deres kirker. Desuden har borgmestrene i Struer, Viborg og Holstebro fået det tilsendt, samt borgmestrene i domkirkebyerne. De har krav på at vide, at der desværre bliver nødt til at komme en retssag mod sognepræst Jonas Serner-Pedersen, som er sammen med Holstebro politi i en løgn, der har ødelagt vores liv siden 2012. Dette er også nu igen sendt til orientering til provst Carsten Hoffmann, biskop Henrik Stubkjær og menighedsrådsformanden ved Hjerm kirker.
Vi har også sendt nedenstående til Lisbeth Zornig. Nu er det vinter og det bliver svært at klare sig. Lisbeth Zornig, som er vant til at tage sig af mennesker i nød, opfordrede til at kirken tager sig af flygtninge.
Jakobs brev 1:27 (Bibelen på hverdagsdansk) Nej, en god og ægte måde at tjene Gud, vores Far, på er at tage sig af forældreløse børn og fattige enker og undgå at blive forurenet af verdslighed.
Med venlig hilsen Daniela Skov og Lars Skov Krøgholt.
Hertil svarer Jesper Bacher:
Kære Daniela Skov
Jeg undrer mig egentlig ikke over Anders Agger, hans tilgang er et tidens tegn. Men jeg forholder mig kritisk til den.
Venligst
Jesper Bacher
Hertil replicerer Daniela:
Kære Pastor Jesper Bacher.
Det er et tidens tegn, men det er jo først og fremmest kirken, der står for ORDETS forkyndelse og når FORKYNDELSE er forvirring og mangler substans i at Kirkens biskopper og præster i stort tal SIGER EET OG GØR NOGET andet, så bliver det umuligt for alle os borgere at finde Gud via den version af verdensreligionen kristendommen, som staten har valgt at kalde Folkekirken.
Overalt i nationerne og dermed også i Danmark kommer alt væltende ud i lyset. Politikere, professionelle sportsfolk og alle mulige kendte borgere bliver gjort ansvarlige for deres handlinger. Den katolske kirke er blevet grundigt gennemlyst i ret lang tid nu. Men det er stadig undervejs i sin spæde begyndelse, at alle de kirkelige ansatte, som har ansvar i for Ordets fremgang og modtagelse i Danmark bliver holdt ansvarlige for KIRKENS dybt alvorlige tilstand.
Vi er i en helt ny tid i historien, et paradigmeskift.
NU er der en bred forventning til at præster RENT FAKTISK TROR PÅ DET de PRÆDIKER. Det er absolut nye toner i Danmark.
Dansk politi bliver endevendt og holdt ansvarlige jfr. vores Justitsminister Søren Pind. NU da alle mulige dybt alvorlige sagde er kommet frem om LØGNE fra politiet. Pastor Jesper Bacher, læs venligst vores sag. Den har været omkring Strassburg og vi har mistet vor legale retssikkerhed i Danmark på grund af en politibetjent, som ikke vil træde frem og give sig til kende. Vi fik bekræftet af jurist Claus Juhl fra Amnesty International, at vi har mistet vores retssikkerhed som borgere i den situation, vi er i.
Sognepræst Jonas Serner-Pedersen i HJERM og en politibetjent fra Midt- og Vestjyllands politi sammen med et totalt svigt i at udøve sit job og pligt som biskop fra Karsten Nissen, forhenværende biskop i Viborg, der fik pålagt af fhv. kirkeminister Manu Sareen at han skulle tage sig af at løse den mangel på kommunikation fra Jonas Serner-Pedersen til os. Biskop Karsten Nissen valgte bevidst at gøre ingenting.
Forholde sig kritisk til al behandling af pastorale forhold, som KIRKENS betalte præster / PASTORS / MINISTERS (TJENERE - HYRDER) i GUDS HUS er ansvarlige for!
Det starter der indenfor de tykke mure. Reformationen begyndte også I KIRKEN før at KIRKEN så kunne påvirke nationerne med en virkning så kraftfuld, at det stadig kan erfares nu 500 år efter helt ovre i fx New Zealand.
Det er alvor at lovløshed, tyveri af GAVEBIDRAG som i 2007-08 i Kolding Kirkecenter (pinsekirke, frikirke), hvor en underviser stikker vore GAVEBIDRAG i egne lommer, ja, de gaver, som var bestemt til at gavne kirken, identitetstyveri som Sognepræst Jonas Serner-Pedersen i HJERM indtil nu er sluppet af sted med. Han brugte vores Cpr-numre og vi så har været tilmeldt to sognekirker mod vor vilje og HELT UDEN VOR viden. Han har anfægtet vores religionsfrihed og vi har så BETALT kirkeskat i to år og fået polititilhold og bødestraf og er trukket i retten, løjet til af politiet og Jonas groft i offentligheden nu i årevis eftersom han er den eneste, der er blevet afhørt og hørt af politiet, som har nægtet at tage os ind til afhøring. Vi blev bare den skyldige part, og fik bøder. Statsadvokaten i Viborg blev overtrumfet af politiet. De nægter at afhøre os. Vi er dømt uden rettergang. Vores grundlov siger at vi har retten til religionsfrihed i Danmark. Men vi er tvunget ind i at være underlagt den af staten anerkendte religion gennem pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen uden vores samtykke og viden i en periode af to år! Det har været det højeste misbrug, og han var sikker på, at han havde fuld kontrol over situationen. Uden nogen problemer overhovedet, takket være hans tjeneste i folkekirken gav statens politi ham tilhold mod os, så han ikke skulle behøve at tale med os om den måde han havde behandlet vores personlige papirer på.
Også vort valg af dåb så vel som det at vi begge fuldt bevidst valgte at udmelde os af folkekirken for adskillige år siden efter at have modtaget det, der er kendt som troens dåb, blev ikke respekteret af Jonas Serner-Pedersen, som godt vidste, at vi ikke lovligt kunne være medlem af folkekirken med nogle af dens fordele. Ikke efter vores valg af troens dåb i 1997 og Lars i 2007! Vi blev bare tvunget til at betale skat til folkekirken af pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen. Denne skat bruges til at betale præsternes løn, så vidt vi ved.
Vi har lidt på mange områder, og er ikke blevet hørt. Jeg Daniela har fået PTSD fordi betjenten behandlede mig meget groft og på en måde som chokerede mig. Det har betydet en alvorlig forandring af mit liv. Yderligere er mit liv blevet totalt begrænset og også min amerikanske forlovede og kommende mand har fået sin retssikkerhed alvorligt angrebet. Eftersom jeg har et polititilhold kan jeg aldrig nogensinde rejse og flytte til Amerika, hvor han har sin søn og det hus, vi ønsker at bo i.
Det betyder, at vi ikke kan planlægge og vælge frit, og hvis jeg ikke trækker Jonas i retten, vil min forlovede være nødt til at sælge sit hus. Jeg selv vil virkelig gerne flytte til Amerika og leve der med ham. Hvorfor skulle vores liv blive bestemt af den statsansatte præst i Hjerm Jonas Serner-Pedersen, som lyver sammen med statens politi!!!
Ifølge dansk politi vil polititilholdet mod os blive permanent!!!
Vi har dog kontaktet en advokat, som fører sager i retten også sager mod staten. Vi har fået at vide, at vi ikke har gjort noget ulovligt, så gennem en retssag kan vi få gjort polititilholdet ugyldigt, sådan som det virkelig er (alt sammen meget dyrt, som det er at få en advokat til at se ind i alle detaljer!!).
Og justitsministeriet følger sagen, fik vi at vide for vel 2 år siden nu, og de sagde i det høje ministerium i Dk at VI "GØR DET RETTE" ved at fortælle, hvad der foregår‼‼
Desuden sagde de i telefonen: " Vi læser det I skriver og vi gør noget ved det. I vil snart høre fra os!" Det sagde de faktisk.
Men Statens politi og præst sammen med sin overordnede, biskop Henrik Stubkjær i Viborg, har indtil nu fuld mulighed for at lyve og trække alt i langdrag på 3. år allerede. Det til trods for at der er en senioranklager på vor sag, nummer 2 statsadvokat i Viborg som nu har sendt det sidste pålæg til politiet om at give os PARTSHØRING ‼‼‼
DET NÆGTER POLITIET SKRÆMMENDE NOK FORTSAT! DE HAR DERES HELT EGNE LOVE SOM ARBEJDSGRUNDLAG ÅBENBART ‼‼
Om det er stædighed fra pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersens side, ved vi ikke. Vi ved ikke om hans nuværende biskop i HJERM tager samtaler med ham fra tid til anden for at arbejde på at finde en holdbar løsning. Vi har ikke fået SÅ MEGET som et hint om at gennemsigtigt og godt lederskab finder sted: en mail eller en invitation til at samtale med Viborg Biskop Henrik Stubkjær om en løsning sammen med ham. Det undrer os rigtig meget, at det er normaltilstand for kirkens ledere og TILSYNSFØRENDE biskopper at ignorere og undgå enhver kommunikation og ansvarsfuldt at søge en løsning.
Vi har fået meget hårde ord fra forskellige mænd i kirkens præste- og -lederskab i Danmark gennem de sidste 3 år!
Dette er en alvorlig sag for kirken i Danmark. TRAGISK og dens udnyttelse af Gud og lægmænd (borgere i Danmark) til at skabe en finansiel levevej og karriere ud fra kirken og modtage skat som kilde til lønninger. I frikirker er præsternes lønninger og kirkeudgifterne betalt ved finansielle gavebidrag fra lægmænd.
At udnytte borgere ved også at tage for givet, at vi betaler!!!
Også at Jonas og hans to biskopper og en provst i Struer samt menighedsrådet i kirken i Hjerm intet gør for at udvirke retfærdighed for os to borgere, som uden berettigelse har betalt kirkeskat gennem det at Jonas har handlet bag vores ryg, og endda har betalt bøder.
Forkert anklaget og også ført i retten, og vi ikke nogen hjælp fra politiet med rådgivning om, at vi kunne søge retslig hjælp i byretten i de første 14 dage i 2012, hvor Jonas trak politiet ind i vores liv. I stedet for en højst 15 minutters samtale med os om vores kirkemedlemsskabspapirer!!!
Vi har slet ikke haft fordel af vores medlemskab af de to folkekirker vi var tvunget ind i at være medlem af i to år.
Det er meget voldeligt mod os, og vores religionsfrihed er blevet misbrugt groft.
Det betyder virkelig meget for os at Lisbeth Zornig forleden opmuntrede os med gode ord i en mail for få dage siden. En stor TAK til dig, Lisbeth Zornig.
M v h Daniela Skov og Lars Skov Krøgholt
ENGLISH TRANSLATION
Media commentary in the newspaper "Kristeligt Dagblad"
Translation of this media commentary:
Anders Agger's depiction of christians is artificial and tiresome.
Media Comment
Written by Jesper Bacher
December 2-2015
Anders Agger kept circling round the Danish town Christiansfeld as a time warp and he made a parallel between the Moravian Church and the American Amish society in the Tv documentary ”Indefra" (INSIDE) on DR 2, according to Jesper Bacher.
I could not help becoming a bit tired of the "anthropologist" Anders Agger's ongoing referring to
the akwardness in the Christian Faith, Jesper Bacher writes about Agger's tv documentary about the (Herrnhut ) Moravian Church in Christiansfeld.
MAYBE IT IS TOO DARING to call Christiansfeld a ghetto. This term for certain is loaded, but it might be ok to use the term ghetto to depict a society in society, without constituting a social problem.
Yes, when on the contrary it is an asset to society and uplifting, ghetto contains a different meaning than the popular content.
And Christiansfeld really is a place of spirit and beauty, as we were watching Monday in "Indefra" on DR 2.
Anders Agger was hosting the tv documentary.
In his own optical”a secular cousin", visiting a foreign and eksotic country talking to people, who actually believed in God and in Heaven.
Not that Christiansfeld is a remote off post. As a matter of fact the town is located in the Municipality of Kolding on Route E45. No, the location of Christiansfeld is very much in the center, but in the town the life of the congregation is UTMOST in the center than in many other places.
Christiansfeld was founded in 1773 and populated with members of Moravian Church or Herrnhuts, who belong to an evangelic-Lutheran free Church.
Industrious hard-working, content and easily satisfied people, who emphasized charity working and good handy craft and Bakery goods.
Christiansfeld is marked by beautiful symmetry and houses with high ceilings
creating lots of room for the brothers and sisters assembling, the Word of God and the works of Love.
A Protestant exemplary colony to the Glory of God and for the benefit and wellbeing of men. Only the City of God is without sin, but that does not rule out that we can build a city to the glory of God.
Anders Agger could not get over this. He kept circling round depicting Christiansfeld as a time Warp and made a parallel to the American Amish people who renounce all modern technology.
Immediately a younger Kiln maker caused Anders Agger to make a turn for the better in his reasoning, when he said, he did not stick to what is outdated, but that by all means was not true as to facts concerning Christianity.
I must admit, I could not help being tired of Anders Agger's going on about the awkwardness in Christianity and the hope of life everlasting throughout eternity.
In between his going on and on he resembled an anthropologist, doing field trips among native people without contact to the general civilization.
The Herrnhuts were friendly and patient people, and the pastor Jørgen Bøytler, spoke about being "soft spoken dogmatic." That does not keep dogmatic from being insisting, and although the term dogmatic - almost as in Ghetto- has fallen into bad repute, it is talking about the safe guarding of the Church.
Without safeguards, Church is defenceless against spiritual lies and deception. Also the kind that is called by the name love.
And despite Anders Agger's somewhat tiresome approach he ended with a good question:
" Maybe they are naive the Herrnhuts, The Moravian Church, or maybe they are a resounding slapping to the modern day people of 2015, who wants to know it all, and preferably document it on Facebook."
Jesper Bacher is a pastor in a State Church.
A comment to Anders Agger's tv documentary by
Jørgen Bøytler, Pastor in The Moravian Church in Christiansfeld :
It was fine as a congregation to be researched by Agger. There was an editorial line drawn that was kept. That is the rules of the game.
The differences were to be emphasized, and so they were. Yes , you could say there was a touch of field anthropology to it, and that was ok fine.
Of course, there are more to be said about the Moravian Church. The Comparison with the Amish people was understand, but incorrect.
Twice a year we have the Love Meal, special liturgical meal time , and on those 2 occasions the assisting helpers wear old time suits , all in a total of 4 hours of an entire year.
The rest of the year, they are wearing fully normal clothes.
Call it a subculture; call it tradition, people as a whole move in a limited number of subcultures.
Both guests and members benefit and take great pleasure from the Love Meals. EVERYONE is WELLCOME to all services.
Of course, Church can be different, it has to, but it also must be recognizable.
As the Kingdom of God, which is not of this world, but yet is in the world.
And yes, The Moravian Church is an evangelical Lutheran free Congregation (not free church). The concept free congregation was introduced when Moravian Church build the town in 1773.
The Congregation, also worldwide is tolerant, and ecumenical. An often used motto is:”
“In what is essential UNITY, in non- essentials LIBERTY, in all things LOVE”.
THANK you so much pastor Jørgen Bøytler for your good, respectful answers to us who are not too familiar with the Moravian Church and so very interesting information about the Church and love faith of the practical Living in the MC.
Kind Regards,
Daniela Skov and Lars Skov Krøgholt.
Having read the article Daniela writes to Jesper Bacher:
Dear Jesper Bacher‼
I wonder about your wondering and fatigue as you give an expression of concerning Daniel Agger. It is as in the reformation 500 years ago, and also now the CHURCH that is responsible that ordinary Danes do not find God in church. Far too much subtlety happens in God's House, unfortunately, and it's hard to understand the bishops and many pastor’s words on Church, who lives its life in society by virtue of traditions and not in harmony in PRACTICAL WORK in charity. It is simply reduced to a trademark so when BISHOPS and PASTORS SAY ONE THING and ACTUALLY SHOW the OPPOSITE in ACTION and EVEN STAND ALONGSIDE WEST JUTLAND POLICE in SOMETHING AS CONTEMPORARILY RELEVANT as LIES FROM POLICE, MISCONDUCT FROM the CLERGYMAN, and ACCEPTED by ALL DANISH BISHOPS AGAINST THEIR BETTER KNOWLEDGE
-How are we CITIZENS TO COMPREHEND what you are TALKING ABOUT? And the Church with its message and a JESUS who is not physical or biological raised but one mystery, actually so implies that God is DEAD when BISHOPS and OTHERS BELIEVE that the SON of GOD WAS NOT RAISED FROM THE DEAD PHYSICALLY ...
How can Daniel Agger and others then avoid getting confused at a higher level, unfortunately, as we say???
The case we have here has destroyed our lives and been running since 2012. View the website and then you can maybe find more understanding of what so many ordinary citizens are calling for the Church to be.
Yours sincerely Daniela Skov and Lars Skov Krøgholt
The following has been sent today to Bishop Henry Stubkjær in VIBORG and CITIZENS in HJERM AS is in HIS DIOCESE. He can explain to you what it is about. It is an official case right up in the MINISTRY OF JUSTICE and everything gets posted publicly, as in priests are public figures and deans, bishops and Parish Council-EVERYTHING is DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED and UNDER GREAT RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD and US CITIZENS. Yes you get even money via our tax dollars!!!!
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We must recall that the parish pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen does not own the Congregation and the Church in HJERM, but he has signed and hence with his personal signature committed himself to carry out his duties from the ethical and moral values in the priestly vow ‼ This applies of course also to you, Bishop Henry Stubkjær and there is nothing in the promise which the Congregation in Hjerm, Viborg, Yes in Denmark must undertake and rely on and trust to you pastors’ leadership and judgment when it in practice means nothing for you personally to comply with the priest's promise‼ Breach of faith in practice has the full impact that you cannot expect anyone to believe in any of it in says in service, as well as the opinions in the newspapers and Church Magazine and on television. Trust is a fragile case ‼ It must be earned with their fellow citizens, as well as in our marriages. With our children. Politicians look and distrust so massively as now in 2015 in Denmark and out in the nation, we hear about all the time, and we have even the lack of confidence in our elected officials. Citizens in Hjerm are entitled to know what they and their city is messed into. They are not for the Jonas ' sake and for your sake and so that you should have a career. They live in the parish for perhaps many years prior and in the future to come. A pastor is often only for at short time on the site and it is the pastor’s obligation to get to the people and a region with respect and preserve humility in the face of the people and the task.
This is sent to the following:
Dear Ellen R Burkal, Anne Offersen, Kristina Pærregaard, Jesper Lykke Andersen, Erna Bødker Jensen, Karen S Clausen, Mogens Munksgaard, Diana Vejrsø Kruse, Aase Stoltenberg, Niels Ausum, Tine Jackson L, Nicole Væring Brander, Kathrine Elmholdt Mortensen, Lise Nørgaard Hansen, Vinni Sadolin White, Marion J, Jannie Aslak Gilberg, Flemming Rohr Pedersen, Inge Saugmandsgaard, Else N, Hans Jørgen Christensen, Siv Nybo, Elise Skautrup P , Lisa Voigt Dust, Anni Winther-Clausen, Birthe Sadolin, Karin Madsen, Anna-maria Hvidtved, Thomas Pasgård Henriksen, Niels Nørsøller, Else Rimpler, Anne Mette Hvidtved Hansen, Sandra Agerholm, Mary Lad-Karlshøj, Karina Kjeldahl Andersen, Anne Impgaard Madsen, Elitha Elisa Wittrup T, Heidi Elisabeth Svan borg-Books, Sanne Rydahl, Annemaria Hook Jackson, Bianca Gutheil Alsen, Jane M Jensen, Karen Henneberg, Susanne M, Camilla Wibroe Henneberg, Ulla Kjaerulf, Ina Fielsø , Nina Bach Ibsgaard, Helene Ørskov Rider, Ashton, Karina Hyldal Nissen, Dorthe Mark Olesen, Lise lillelund S, Christina Sander B, Tom k. Demming, Suzy Normann P, Anja Hoffmann, Jette R, Lilly v. Pedersen, Ellen M, Tove Larsen, Line Henriksen and Mona Hyldal.
We send this to you, which Jonas Serner-Pedersen's colleagues in Hjerm churches previously have been sent. The same is sent to every Danish Bishop and their colleagues in their respective churches. In addition, the mayors of Struer, Viborg and Holstebro got it sent to them, as well as the mayors of the cathedral towns in Denmark. They are entitled to know that, unfortunately, there will have to come a lawsuit against the parish pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen, who is along with Holstebro police in a lie that has ruined our lives since 2012. This is also now again sent, for information, to the Dean Carsten Hoffmann, Bishop Henrik Stubkjær and the chairman of the church council by Hjerm churches.
We have also sent the following to Lisbeth Zornig. Now it is winter and it will be difficult to cope with. Lisbeth Zornig, who is used to take care of people in need, urged that the Church takes care of refugees.
Jacob's letter 1:27 “Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world”.
With kind regards Daniela Skov and Lars Skov Krøgholt.
And Jesper Bacher answers:
Dear Daniela Skov
I do not really wonder over Daniel Agger, his approach is a sign of the times. But I relate critically to it.
Kind regards Jesper Bacher.
Daniela replies to Jesper Bacher:
It is a sign of the times we are living in, but it is first and foremost the Church who represents the preaching of the Word of God and when PREACHING is confusion and lack substance with Church Bishops and pastors at a large scale SAY one thing and do another, then it is impossible for all of us lay people to find GOD inside the version of the World religion called Christianity , which our Government and State has chosen to be called the State Church.
Everywhere in the Nations, thus so in Denmark all hidden agendas come tumbling out into broad daylight!
Politicians, professional sports people and various known people have been placed into taking responsibility for actions they have made, which needed to be dealt with in terms of transparency.
The Catholic Church has undergone thorough investigation for quite some time already. Yet it is still in the very early stages, that all the clerical Employees who are responsible for the advancing and the Receiving of the Gospel here in Denmark are being held accountable to the severe conditions of the CHURCH!
We are in an entirely new season in history. A paradigm shift.
Now there is a broad expectancy that pastors have to actually believe in what they preach. That is an entirely new situation in Denmark.
The Danish police will be investigated and held responsible and accountable NOW due to serious cases of LIES in the police, according to our Minister of Justice Søren Pind.
Please, kindly Pastor Jesper Bacher if you will read our case story. It has been around Strassburg and returned, and we have lost our legal rights here in our nation Denmark due to a police officer who will not step forward and give his identity. We had verified through a lawyer from Amnesty International , Claus Juhl, that we have lost our legal Rights as citizens in this situation , we are in.
Pastor Jonas Serner- Pedersen, Vicar in Hjerm and a police officer from Police in the mid and west region of Denmark combined with a total failure in conducting his job and duty as a Bishop in office, Karsten Nissen former Bishop in Viborg who was demanded by Manu Sareen, our former Minister of Church in Government, to bring a solution to the lack of communication from Jonas S-P to us. Bishop Karsten Nissen chose deliberately to do nothing.
Relate in a critical manner towards all handling of clerical matters and issues which CHURCH paid pastors, ministers (serving! Shepherds in Office! are accountable to.
It all begins within the THICK Walls. The Reformation started inside the CHURCH in order to CHURCH impacting Nations in such powerful manner, which can be experienced still 500 years later all the way in New Zealand.
It is serious trouble that lawlessness, THEFT of Church Gift contributions from a teacher in Kolding Kirkecenter (Pentecostal free Church) in 2007-08
kept in her own account , even the gifts was planned to benefit into the Church, identity theft as from Jonas Serner-Pedersen in HJERM, Up until now has got away with. He used our personal identity numbers and papers to sign us into the State Church against our knowing VIOLATING OUR FREEDOM OF RELIGION and we have been paying Church TAXES for 2 years, have suffered Police restraint and paying Fine and taken to Court , LIED TO from police and JONAS GROSLY IN PUBLIC NOW FOR YEARS since he is the only one who has been interrogated and heard by the police who has refused to take us into interrogation. We just became the guilty party and fined. State Attorney in Viborg was overruled by police. They refuse to interrogate us. We are sentenced without the Law. Our Constitution says we have the Right to FREEDOM of Religion in Denmark. But we are forced subject to the State's recognized Religion Through Pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen without our consent and knowing for a period of 2 years! It has been highly abusive and he made sure he was in full control of the situation. With no trouble at all due to his Office in the State Church, the State police gave him restraint Orders on us so he did not have to talk to us ever about his dealing with our personal papers.
Even our choice of Baptism as well as we both deliberately chose to sign ourselves out of the State Church several years ago after Receiving what is known as FAITH -baptism were not respected by Jonas Serner-Pedersen who knew , we could not be legally members with any benefits from State Church Membership. Not after our choice of Faith Baptism in 1997 and Lars around 2006 or 07! We were just forced to pay taxes to the State Church by Pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen. This Tax is used to pay the salary of the pastors as far as we know of.
We have suffered in many aspects and not been heard. PTSD because the police treated me, Daniela Skov in a very rough and shocking way. That has changed my life seriously. Furthermore, my life has been totally limited and also my American fiancé and husband to be has got his legal rights violated severely. Since I have a police restraint I CANNOT EVER travel and move to America, where he has his son and the house we want to live in.
That means we cannot plan and choose freely and if I do not take Jonas to court my fiancé will have to sell his house. I myself would really want to move to America and live there with him. Why should our life be determined by State Employed Pastor in HJERM ‼ Jonas Serner-Pedersen LYING together with State Police‼‼‼‼
According to Danish police‼‼ The Police restraint order on us will be permanent.‼‼‼
We have contacted a Lawyer though who do court cases also up against the State. We are told that we have done nothing illegal so through a court case, we can have the restraint made invalid as it really is (All very expensive as it is to have the Lawyer start looking into all details!!!!!! ) ‼
And the Office of Minister of Justice follow this case concerning the Church. We were told from that high Office in our Danish Government that: "you are doing what is right, by telling what is happening in the Church."
‼‼‼Furthermore they added on the Phone:" We are reading what you write and we are doing something about it. You will be hearing from us!" They actually said so.
But the State Police and the State Employed Pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen joint with his Superior, Bishop in Viborg Henrik Stubkjær have full opportunity to lie and to stall the matter in 3 years already. Whether it is stubbornness from Pastor Jonas Serner-Pedersen and refusal to listen to any other than himself, we do not know.
We do not know if his superior Bishop to Hjerm parish calls him into his office from time to time in order to work on finding a sustainable solution.
We have not even received a hint indicating that transparent and expected good leadership is taking place ‼‼‼: an email and an invitation to talk with Viborg Bishop Henrik Stubkjær about a solution together with him. We do not understand that ACCEPTED NORMALITY IN CHURCH BISHOP LEADERSHIP is to ignore and avoid any communication and responsible seeking of solutions.
We have RECEIVED very harsh words from various men in Church pastor- and Leadership throughout Church in Denmark throughout the past at least 3 years.
This is a serious situation for the Church in Denmark. Tragic and its EXPLOITATION of GOD and of LAY PEOPLE (CITIZENS IN DENMARK)to make a FINANCIAL LIVING AND CAREER OUT of Church and RECEIVE TAX as income to RECIEVE wages and in free churches the PASTORS WAGES AND CHURCH EXPENSES are paid Through FINANCIAL GIIFT CONTRIBUTIONS FROM LAY PEOPLE.
EXPLOITING CITIZENS ALSO BY TAKING FOR GRANTED, WE PAY.‼‼‼
EVEN AS JONAS AND HIS TWO BISHOPS AND A DEAN IN STRUER AND THE COUNCIL IN CHURCH IN HJERM THEY DO NOTHING TO EXTEND JUSTICE FOR US 2 CITIZENS WHO WRONGLY HAVE PAYED CHURCH TAX THROUGH JONAS DEALING BEHIND OUR BACK AND EVEN PAID FINE.
WRONGLY ACCUSED AND EVEN TAKEN TO COURT AND WE HAD NO POSSIBLE HELP TO BE COUNSELED FROM POLICE THAT WE COULD SEEK LEGAL
AID IN THE CITY COURT OF LAW IN THE FIRST 14 DAYS IN 2012 where Jonas dragged the police into our lives. Instead of a conversation with us 15 minutes at the most about our Church membership papers ‼‼‼
We had no possible benefit to us at all from our membership of THE 2 STATE CHURCHES WE WERE FORCED INTO MEMBERSHIP IN FOR 2 years.
It is highly abusive and our FREEDOM of Religion was abused grossly.
It really means a great deal to us that Lisbeth Zornig the other day cheered us with kind words in an email as a response to us.
A BIG Thank you to you Lisbeth Zornig.
Kind Regards
Daniela Skov
Lars Krøgholt.
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Lars Skov Krøgholt
Knud Hansens Vej 12,2.tv.
6000 Kolding
Denmark
Tel: +45 5047 3645
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