Proverbs 30:4

Proverbs 30:4

By

Gary Primo

October 25, 2014

Proverbs 30:4 - Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?

This one verse in the Scriptures (a collection of questions) has always raised a number of further questions for me. I would dearly love to know what the Jews make of this verse.

In this article I will dissect this verse into several different topics or questions and answer the above question..

“Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?”

Indeed! Who has ascended or descended up to or down from heaven. At the time of this writing, it is presumed that no one had. The question seems to draw its own conclusion (i.e rhetorical). Perhaps the only one that might have is Enoch.

Gen. 5:22 - And Enoch walked with Elohim after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

23 - And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

24 - And Enoch walked with Elohim: and he was not; for Elohim took him.

This very short excerpt has been the subject of much debate over the centuries. It seems to imply that Enoch was translated by Yahuwah from physical to spirit and was caught up to heaven, without having to taste death. And that is what many preachers preach.

Others; however, maintain that Enoch was merely translated, by the spirit, to another part of the world where he was safe from those who wished him harm. I have previously read the entire Book of Enoch and scanned over it today looking for any section that mentioned what happened to Enoch. I found nothing, not even a clue.

Yet, here is why I don’t believe that Enoch was translated into heaven without tasting death.

Such a translation would infer that Enoch was the “firstborn” of the Kingdom. I believe that this title is reserved for Yahushua – that He might “have preeminence in all things”. It is my belief that Yahushua is the only “man” to ascend and descend to or from heaven.

All men have to taste death once, since all are born into sin. This fact is without exception save for the righteous that are alive when Yahushua returns. Even the Son of Man had to taste death. I believe everyone will agree with me that no man was/is greater in righteous than Yahushua. It was his death that paid the penalty of eternal death for all men. Therefore, I find it difficult to believe that Enoch would have been translated to heaven without tasting death; and, that he was merely translated to a “place of safety” because the earthly powers of his day were seeking to kill him.

I will be coming back to the Book of Enoch shortly.

Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth?

I believe that all Believers know that it is the Father who is the supreme Creator. The Gospel of John explains the creation best.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.

2 - The same was in the beginning with Elohim.

3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

The reality here is that the Father only directly created His only begotten Son. He was the seed for the entire creation. It was actually the Son who did the creating; yet, since he was created by and was doing the will of the Father, the Father is ultimately responsible.

I believe there is a very logical reason why the Father chose to do things this way. The creation process had to begin with a physical creation in case things went wrong and Yahuwah had to destroy all that he created. And indeed, things did go wrong. Since the Father is the most righteous being of all, he cannot come into direct contact with unrighteousness, for all that is corruptible or unrighteous, will be destroyed by his mere presence.

2 Peter 3:10 - But the day of Yahuwah will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 - Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 - Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of Yahuwah, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Rev.20:11 - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Therefore, Yahuwah could not interact with his own creation for fear that His mere presence would destroy it. He needed someone, one that was part of the creation himself, and could interact with the physical creation without destroying it. That created being was Yahushua, the only begotten Son, and the seed of creation. Therefore, anywhere in the Scriptures where it talks of Elohim interacting and/or talking to humans, it is always the Son that it is speaking of.

However, since the Son so closely mirrored the image of the Father, the two are barely distinguishable. They are one in mind, spirit and purpose. The will of the Father is the will of the Son and visa versa.

It is the same thing when we speak of the Creator. The Father created the Son who created the universe and all life in it. Therefore, the term, “the Creator”, applies to both.

What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?

With these facts illuminated for us, I pose the question, “Is the name “Yahuwah” the name of the Father, or the pre-incarnate name of the Son?

Throughout the Scriptures we have examples of a person’s name being changed when their lives took a significant change in purpose. We know that when the Son was made flesh and blood, he was given the name Yahushua. We also know that when he returns he will have a new name (that no one yet knows). Therefore, how can we know if Yahushua’s name was different before his human incarnation? Could it be that his name was Yahuwah before that time? Does anyone yet know the Father’s name? And, since the Son came in the name of the Father, could they have had the same name?

I am sure that most who have read this passage felt they knew the answer to this question posed by the psalmist. Most would answer that the Father’s name is Yahuwah (or Yahweh) and the Son’s name is Yahushua (or Yahshua).

The Jews, of course, deny that Yahushua was Elohim, the Son of Elohim or even the Messiah. This, of course, is modern Jewish thinking. Is this what they have always believed?

The following commentary comes from Rabbi Stewart at:

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext9prov302.html

Christian missionaries will show Jews these verses, and ask them to answer the question at the end of verse 4.

Because the verse ends with the questions, 'What is his name and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?'then Christians will tell you that this is a reference to Jesus, the son of Gd, who, because he was Gd, can do all the things listed in these verses. Of course, this interpretation can only be valid for those who assume that Jesus was Gd.

This is not the Jewish interpretation of these verses. These verses are asking rhetorical questions. The Psalmist knows that no one, other than Gd, can 'gather the wind in his fists, bound the waters in a garment, or establish all the ends of the earth.' These verses are saying that there is no one other than Gd who can do these things, by asking 'who can do these things' in a rhetorical way. The Bible is clear, only Gd controls nature, and only Gd was the author of Creation. Since the answer is that no human can do it, then there is no name of any human who can do it, and since there is no one who can do it, there is no son of this non-existent person, either.

The text then asks what is the name of the son of Gd, since it is only Gd who controls and creates nature. The Bible is clear, there are others besides the Christian Jesus who is called the first born son of Gd. One example is the Jewish people.

In the following verses, Gd is telling Moses what to tell Pharaoh. And here, Gd explicitly states that the People of Israel, the Jews, are Gd's firstborn son:

And the Etrnl said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Etrnl, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn. [Exodus 4:21-23]

As I wrote in the beginning, there are other interpretations that are equally valid. Perhaps the son of Gd that Proverbs 30:4 is speaking of is King David, because we have the following biblical verses in Psalm 89 that say exactly that:

I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. [Psalm 89:20]

Or, perhaps, Psalm 30:4 is referring to King Solomon, whom Gd also calls His son, in I Chronicles 22:9

Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. [I Chronicles 22:9]

So there are a few interpretations of this Proverb, however they do not require us to interpret the Bible in a way that is contrary to the Bible, like believing that Gd had a human son, just as Zeus had human sons.

Naturally, we would expect most Jews to deny that Yahushua was either Elohim or the Son of Elohim. To them, that would make them guilty of murdering the Son of Elohim. They would prefer to believe that he was a fraud and an imposter, and that they were justified in murdering him.

However, not all Jews believed this at the time; and some have become Believers in modern times. The very first Believers were all Jews and included a certain number of priests. They relied on the Scriptures (Old Testament) to prove their case. The New Testament had not been written yet and wouldn’t be for almost four hundred years, when it was canonized. The following are two examples of where Believers drew their understanding from concerning HaMashiyack.

Ps 22:13 - They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 - I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 - My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 - For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17- I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 - They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

There can be no mistaking that this is a prophesy of how Yahushua was to die – by crucifixion. When someone is crucified their bones become disjointed under the mere weight of their body sagging. Those watching were clamoring for his death and hurling insults at him (like ravenous, roaring lions). They grow weak from trying to push themselves up so that they can breathe. Their mouths dry up as their energy is sapped away. Yahushua’s hands and feet were pierced. The guards cast lots for his clothing.

Psalm 8:23 - I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 - When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 - Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 - While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 - When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 - When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 - When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 - Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31- Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

32 - Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 - Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 - Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 - For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of Yahuwah.

36 - But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

The general argument I get concerning these verses is they are speaking of wisdom. I believe the following verses to dispute that argument.

1 Cor. 1:21 - For after that in the wisdom of Elohim the world by wisdom knew not Elohim, it pleased Elohim by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 - For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 - But we preach HaMashiyack crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 - But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, HaMachiyack the power of Elohim, and the wisdom of Elohim.

The terms “set up” and “brought forth” both denote creation. In other words this is talking of something or someone that was created. Would not the wisdom of the Father have always been with Him?

“Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;” “By him” means beside. “As one brought up with him” means it is speaking of two different things or beings.

“But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. If a person sins against the Son, he automatically sins against the Father too. He does so to the detriment of his very life. Anyone that hates the Son, hates the Father also. Their reward will be eternal death.

I believe that the Book of Enoch explains it very well.

Enoch 71:12 - And these blessings which went forth out of my mouth were well pleasing before that Head of Days. And that Head of Days came with Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel, thousands and ten thousands of angels without number.

13 - [Lost passage wherein the Son of Man was described as accompanying the Head of Days, and Enoch asked one of the angels (as in xlvi. 3) concerning the Son of Man as to who he was.]

14 - And he (i.e. the angel) came to me and greeted me with His voice, and said unto me '

This is the Son of Man who is born unto righteousness,

And righteousness abides over him,

And the righteousness of the Head of Days forsakes him not.'

15 - And he said unto me:

' He proclaims unto thee peace in the name of the world to come;

For from hence has proceeded peace since the creation of the world,

And so shall it be unto thee for ever and for ever and ever.

Yahushua was born into righteousness. He is the only being born directly from the Father. Everyone else, if it were He that did the actual creating, are the direct children of Yahushua; and the Father is really our Grandfather. Because Yahushua was born directly of the Father, He inherited a naturally righteous character, which stuck with Him throughout His human carnation. And, that is what propelled Him into the Kingdom as the Firstborn.

The second creation will be a consequence of the destruction of the first creation. How many of all the souls that have ever inhabited the earth will be destroyed along with the first creation? It is absolutely mind boggling how many have turned their gift of free choice into a curse of death.

The non-believing Jews have given themselves over to a reprobate mind. If Yahushua were to come tomorrow and stand in their midst, they would likely kill Him all over again.

The fact that we few, out of the entire population of the earth received the gift of understanding, is such an awesome thing to behold. I am sure we have all asked ourselves, “Why me!” Hopefully, we will all find out someday.

Gen.1:26 - And Elohim said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

This one verse reveals that there was more than one Elohim involved in the creation – i.e. the Father and the Son. The Father created the Son and the Son created the universe along with all life in it. The Son was created for this specific purpose.

The Hebrew contention, that, “Yahuwah Elohim is one Elohim” remains a true statement as it is speaking of the Father. The Father was quite alone when He procreated His Son. Up until the trial and crucifixion of Yahushua, the Father was the only one that possessed eternal life and the power of self-sustainability.

Revelation 4-5 reveal a clear picture of the throne of Yahuwah, where He alone sits on the throne and Yahushua emerges from the outer circle of created angelic beings to “open the book”. This event took place after it was asked “Who is worthy?” Following His sacrifice, Yahushua was indeed worthy. He was the first to complete the plan of the Father. He was/is the firstborn of both creations. Only the righteous will ever see the 2^nd creation. Yahushua, indeed, proved His righteousness unto blood. Next to the Father, Yahushua is the most righteous being in existence.

Like I have said numerous times in the past, the Jewish religion has corrupted their faith to the point where they are no better than any of the other pagan religions on this planet. They worship their traditions and Talmud more than Elohim and the Torah.

In the beginning they were indeed the firstborn of Yahuwah. However, since that time, they sold their inheritance for filthy lucre and have followed the way of the wicked. One can bet that they are heavily involved in the plans for a one world religion that will blend Islamism, Hinduism and Christianity into one. They have fanned the flames of change to make the Ten Commandments applicable only to the Jews and the 7 Noahide Laws for the Gentiles. As in Constantine’s day, when only Roman citizens were commanded not to follow the customs and traditions of the Jews, so will the new version of a one world religion exempt the Jews. Any non-Jew attempting to follow the customs and traditions of the Jews will face arrest, prosecution, torture and death. Anyone claiming that Yahushua was the Messiah or Son of Elohim will be charged with a hate crime. Any violation of the 7 Noahide Laws will, in the future, carry the death penalty – death by beheading.

When Yahuwah declared Israel to be his firstborn, He intended for Israel to be a model for the rest of the world and convert the Gentile masses. Instead they became jealous of their Elohim and desired to keep Him all to themselves.

When Israel conquered the Promised Land, the rest of the world was awed by their success and knew full well that only with the help of their Elohim were they able to perform all the miraculous works that they did.

To weaken this relationship, the pagan nations sought to cause Israel to fall into disfavour with their Elohim by enticing them to adopt their forms of pagan worship. As we know, this plan worked quite well. Eventually, Israel was taken into captivity. Northern Israel never repented and were scattered amongst the nations. Southern Israel did repent and eventually returned. However, after several generations they were backsliding again.

Yahuwah then sent His Son, Yahushua, with the hope that this event would set them back on the straight and narrow. What did the Jews do? They killed His Son. However, in His infinite wisdom, Yahuwah manipulated the Jews to do exactly what He wanted them to do. Any doubt as to the righteousness and incorruptibility of the Son, was squashed; and Yahushua was promoted to the Firstborn of the new creation (Kingdom).

All things work for good for those who love Yahuwah and believe and trust in Him. Yahushua is living proof that this saying is true. We need to fully comprehend and believe this going into the Tribulation if we hope to achieve victory over death. Our fear of Yahuwah and the punishment of eternal death should override any fear of this world or physical death. Whatever we may have to individually suffer in the tribulation is worth the reward of eternal life. Like the old saying goes, “No pain, no gain.”

Some are indeed going to be spared the tribulation. However, according to what is written, they will only number 144,000. From the Apostles to today’s Believers, all have thought they were living in the last days and would be amongst the 144,000 to escape. The dictionary number of years for a generation is 30 (on average). The number of generations in 2,000 years is 66.66666666666667. (An interesting number indeed!) Every one of these generations of Believers, believed exactly as we like to believe today – that they were living in the end times. And, many indeed live through their own particular brand of tribulation. Many were martyred and all of them are awaiting their graduation into the Kingdom. They followed in the Master’s footsteps. They suffered the same sort of trial and death. They DID NOT FEAR what the world could do to them. Their focus was completely on the future kingdom. And, so our focus must be, if we, too, are to see the Kingdom. That is the only thing that will get us through the tribulation.

The Jews (for the most part) have lost their fear of Yahuwah. They believe their religious leaders over Yahuwah – and, of course, their leaders have lied to them. They need to individually seek out Yahuwah, the same as us, with a mind that is open to instruction and desires to please Yahuwah alone (the same as us), not their religious leaders. There is not a single man on the face of this earth that any of us can fully trust in as we can with Yahuwah and Yahushua. So, do not waste any more time seeking for a perfect human leader. They simply do not exist. The only ones that are perfect are Yahuwah and Yahushua, and Yahushua opened the door for us to go directly to the source and seek the truth out for ourselves. We have no need of a human to lead us and interpret the Word of Yahuwah for us. We only need to pray for the gifts of understanding and discernment, and Yahuwah will quite willingly grant it to you.

One mistake that some of the “Messianic” Jews have made, is that they merely switched from Judaism to Christianity. This is as ridiculous as switching from Christianity to Islam. It is merely switching from one pagan religion to another and prostituting one’s self to the one world (state) religion of the day. They have not sought out Yahuwah – they have sought out a man (or a man-made religion). They have sought conformity rather than truth. All it has gotten them is the sentence of eternal death.

All pagans believe with all their hearts that they were following the “true” faith. They have all died in confidence that they are going on to eternal life in some sort of heaven. Their confidence is false in spite of the fact that they fully believe it. And so, we must be fully confident in our faith, even as we continue to grow in that faith. We must carry this confidence with us into the tribulation – which is sure to come our way (just as it did with all the other generations) even if these are not the end days. The end of our physical lives is the end time for each and every one of us. That is when the trial and testing is over for each of us individually. The life that we have lived up until this point is what we will be judged on.

As Shaul (Paul) admonished us, we are to don the whole armour of Elohim and be ready for spiritual battle at all times. If we have all our spiritual armour in place, we need not fear the tribulation or physical death.

Conclusion

The following are several more passages from the Book of Enoch that are worth mentioning.

Enoch 70: 1 - And it came to pass after this that his name during his lifetime was raised aloft to that Son of 2 Man and to Yahuwah of Spirits from amongst those who dwell on the earth. And he was raised aloft 3 on the chariots of the spirit and his name vanished among them. Enoch 46: 1 - And there I saw One who had a head of days,

And His head was white like wool,

And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man,

And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels.

2 And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that 3 Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and) why he went with the Head of Days? And he answered and said unto me:

This is the son of Man who hath righteousness,

With whom dwelleth righteousness,

And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden,

Enoch 71:16 - And all shall walk in his ways since righteousness never forsaketh him:

With him will be their dwelling-places, and with him their heritage,

And they shall not be separated from him for ever and ever and ever.

And so there shall be length of days with that Son of Man,

And the righteous shall have peace and an upright way

In the name of Yahuwah of Spirits forever and ever.'

Enoch lived before the flood. Was he alone in his understanding of who the Son of Man was? Or was it generally understood, in those days, that Yahuwah did have a Son through whom He worked? Unfortunately we have no way of knowing. Perhaps archeology will uncover some proof one day. The fact that Enoch had to ask who he was may be a clue. Could the knowledge of Yahushua be “the treasure of that which is hidden”?

Enoch 102:4 - Fear ye not, ye souls of the righteous,

And be hopeful ye that have died in righteousness.

What better example of righteousness do we have than Yahushua? Why seek out counterfeits when we have the real thing? If we take on and die in the righteousness that Yahushua embodies, we need not worry about the judgment.

I firmly believe in the adage “scripture interprets scripture”. That is how I conduct my studies. Somewhere in the scriptures lies a passage that explains any one that has caused confusion. We merely have to search for it. Yahuwah wants to impart His knowledge to us but He wants us to work for it as well. Freely giving this knowledge to us would work as well as it did with the Israelites. We appreciate the things we have to work for, more than we do the things we get freely.

I believe we have ample proof from the Old Testament alone that Yahuwah has had a Son ever since the creation sprang forth. The first creation began with Yahushua as did the second. He has preeminence in all things, exactly as Yahuwah desired Him to. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He was the first to begin the creation and the first to become a complete creation.

Yahushua’s secret was in taking on the righteousness of the Father, which was His free choice to make. It is this choice, not Adam’s, that we are to follow. Yahushua is the measuring stick by which we determine our spiritual progress and judge ourselves. If we try using any man as a measuring stick, we will fall sadly short of the mark.

All the religions of the world are man-made. They have a man as their leader. The Roman Catholics worship their Pope as “God on Earth”. And, he certainly is an agent of the “god of this earth” – HaSatan. When I was in my former church (the Worldwide Church of God) I definitely noticed a lot of worship being directed towards Herbert Armstrong, even though he warned against it (as did the apostles). It seems to be human nature to seek after a man to worship in place of Yahuwah.

We need to appreciate what a special privilege we received when Yahuwah opened our minds and hearts to His truth – the truth that is Yahushua. The Jews forsook this knowledge when they when they forsook Yahushua. They were given over to reprobate minds for their treachery. Yet, there are some who have found the true path.

Zech. 8: 23 - Thus says Yahuwah of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that Elohim is with you.

It will be the Jews that found the true path that this verse is describing. By the same respect, any one of us would be considered a Jew, as we fulfill the intent for which the Jews were created and by which they had hoped to be the firstborn sons of the new creation.

We are the new branch that was grafted onto the Tree of Life. We replaced the unfruitful branch. If we fail to bear fruit, another branch will be grafted on to take our place. That is the way it works with Yahuwah.

Yahuwah will have His “firstborn” of the new creation. It is entirely up to us if we are one of those firstborn. First born or never born – those are the only two options we have.

Follow the example of Yahushua and chose righteousness.

Yahuwah Bless

G.P.