20140721_MR
Source: RTE
URL: http://vimeo.com/101420027
Date: 21/07/2014
Event: Insights from new UN envoy: Gaza is "awful", climate change a "terrible situation"
Attribution: Morning Ireland, RTE Radio 1
People:
- Fran McNulty: Journalist and presenter for RTE
- Mary Robinson: UN Special Envoy for Climate Change
Fran McNulty: Now, the United Nations has appointed a new Special Envoy for Climate Change, her name is Mary Robinson and she's in studio - good morning, Mary Robinson.
Mary Robinson: Good morning.
Fran McNulty: Congratulations on the new position. We'll talk about what's involved - and there is a pretty big job of work to be done, in that new position - in a moment, but just to reflect on the situation in Gaza, for a moment. You're a former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights - what's your feeling on what's happening in Gaza, at the moment?
Mary Robinson: It's just terrible, dreadful, and yesterday was an awful day. The Elders have the Middle East as one of our top priorities, and we're following very closely. We had supported the new government bringing together a technological government supported by both Fatah and Hamas - unfortunately, recent events have completely set that aside. I know that the Secretary-General is in Qatar and is trying to broker a new ceasefire, which is vital. The Security Council is meeting yesterday. It's on the top of everybody's agenda, but it really is awful. It's awful to see these scenes of civilians, children killed. It's, I think, unconscionable that Hamas is still firing missiles, continuing to provoke, and the response of Israel does seem to be out of proportion to the situation.
Fran McNulty: What about the response of the international community? Would you agree that if this was happening in any other country in the world, there would be uproar?
Mary Robinson: Well, I think there is, now. The Security Council met yesterday, the Secretary-General's in the region, people are coming out into the streets in cities all over the world, saying "This must stop". And it must stop.
Fran McNulty: All right, let's talk about your new job - Special Envoy for Climate Change. What does it entail?
Mary Robinson: It entails reminding leaders and all of us that we can't now continue with business as usual. Climate change is a huge existential threat to us, and it's going to happen very quickly, in a way that could be irreversible. But it's already happening, in poor countries. There's a justice element, as I've been emphasising, and the poorest countries - and the region that I've been in, the Great Lakes region, is part of that - have been suffering climate shocks that are undermining food security. More flooding, more desertification, drought... And we need to understand that we can't just do business as usual and a little bit on the green side. No - I have to persuade world leaders, when they come together for the climate summit in September, and then the important climate meeting in Paris, the Conference of the Parties under the climate process in December 2015, that we need a robust, fair climate agreement that keeps us on a pathway below 2 degrees Celsius. We're not on that pathway, now. And, you know, for the children and the grandchildren of our world today, we are facing them with a terrible situation, and that's neither fair nor sensible.
Fran McNulty: Paris in 2015 is make or break, is it not? And there are a number of important road stops along the way. How involved will you be, in trying to get all sides together - in other words, are people looking to you, now, to deliver this deal?
Mary Robinson: Well, I'm one of the climate envoys. There are others - there's John Kufuor, the former President of Ghana, who's focussed particularly on African leaders. There's Michael Bloomberg, who's focussing on cities and climate. And Jens Stoltenberg, who'll be stepping down fairly shortly, because he's taking over the leadership of NATO. And of course Christiana Figueres - a wonderful woman - is the Executive Secretary of the UN process for climate. I work very closely with her. And I think it's not just political leaders - or [although?] they are the most important - it's also business, because a lot of the emissions reduction has to be done by business, all over the world. And I think business leaders who are not linked to fossil fuel are now looking for better political leadership - you know, "Give us the signals, put a price on carbon, a real price, and we will move very rapidly". That's the message that we're getting. But also all of us, as consumers, can have an impact, and we should.
Fran McNulty: What about the energy reality we have, in the world, at the moment? Europe's dependence on gas coming from the East, the implications of the shale gas explosion in the United States has depressed the price of coal, here - it means that more, I suppose, power generation in these countries in Europe is coming from coal, which is exactly what you don't want. How do you control these global impacts?
Mary Robinson: It is a short-term real problem, because coal is not acceptable any more, and it's important - you know, fracking has produced cheaper gas but it also is producing problems of methane leaking, and methane is the worst of the greenhouse gases, by far. And so it is not really a solution. What we need to do is to move rapidly to renewables. We're now talking about the need to get to zero carbon in our world by 2050, in order to stay below the 2 degrees Celsius. And we have to do that equitably. We can't afford to have energy-poor countries or energy-poor people. So we have to make sure that it's fair, and that people are able to move to the renewable energies that are becoming much cheaper. And the countries that are moving fastest to renewable energy are the countries that are going to get the jobs, going to get the investment.
Fran McNulty: And part of the reality is that the geopolitical reality we're operating in, at the moment - we see the situation in Ukraine and Russia. Altering the energy dependence in Europe, in particular, could have a huge implication on that.
Mary Robinson: It could also, I believe, have a very positive implication, because at the moment we're seeing it in terms of energy security. But we need to move away from that. We should not be dependent on oil from Russia - that is not the way forward for Europe. And Europe has committed to a 40% reduction - at least the European leaders are to meet on that in October - 40% by 2030. That's the minimum that Europe must do - partly energy efficiency and partly renewables is the way forward. And I know that I will be talking to the European leaders, to Angela Merkel and others, about a responsibility of Europe, because we have the technology that can allow us to move more rapidly to renewables.
Fran McNulty: Has Europe been dragging its heels?
Mary Robinson: It's not dragging its heels - it had been giving good leadership. Ukraine has come at a bad time, in that sense, but maybe also as a wake-up call, that we cannot depend any more on oil energy from anywhere, least of all from Russia. And that Europe needs to really move to a commitment to renewables, which is there but needs to be reinforced.
Fran McNulty: Just in conclusion, as people listen to this conversation and they think "Well, you know what, what does that have to do with me?" - you said, the last time you were on this programme, "We have two decades to save the Earth". Are you serious about that, and why should ordinary people - people who don't see themselves as being part of this debate - be concerned?
Mary Robinson: I wake up every morning thinking exactly that, that we have a very short time. We will have a commitment to Sustainable Development Goals in 2015, in September, and then we need this new climate agreement. Even if we get a good climate agreement, we're still going to see more weather shocks - Ireland is going to face more rain and hotter summers, but other parts of the world are going to face disaster. And Ireland is good about caring about developing countries - climate could undermine all the work that Concern and Goal and Trócaire have been doing, with the Irish Aid to developing countries. It's real, and we have a green, wonderful country that could give great leadership, and we have to commit to renewable energy.