20121204_JA
Source: BBC Radio 4: Today Programme
URL: N/A
Date: 04/12/2012
Event: Ed Davey not naked but "certainly has a few loose buttons on his shirt"
Attribution: BBC Radio 4
People:
- John Ashton: Special Representative for Climate Change, FCO UK, 2006-2012
- Sarah Montague: Presenter, BBC Radio 4 Today programme
Sarah Montague: Environment ministers from 200 countries around the world are meeting in Doha today. There's been relatively little coverage of the meeting in the mainstream media - there's more focus on the Chancellor's expected announcement tomorrow, approving the building of 20 gas-fired power stations. John Ashton was the climate change envoy for three consecutive British foreign secretaries, both Labour and Conservative, and he co-founded the think tank E3G. He's here in the studio - good morning.
John Ashton: Good morning, Sarah.
Sarah Montague: Now this is a sort of interim meeting, anyway, so is it that significant, the meeting that's going on in Doha?
John Ashton: Well, the process is hugely significant. We need to get a global deal on climate change by 2015, and this meeting - if it works - will take us a few steps closer to it. But it's not the kind of "cup final" in itself. The risk is that it goes off the rails. And if it goes off the rails, then it will be very hard to repair the process. We saw that in Copenhagen - it's questionable whether they can survive another breakdown of that kind.
Sarah Montague: Two hundred countries, as I say, at this meeting. What role does Britain have, there?
John Ashton: Well, I think, Britain, over the last few years, Britain's had a very strong role at these meetings. And the point there is: we need to get the rest of the world, to get our major economic partners to ramp up their efforts to build a low-carbon economy. It's all far too slow, at the moment. Climate change is the biggest threat there is to the prosperity and security of our own country. And we'll only address it if we can leverage other people to do more. We've -
Sarah Montague: We've been saying that- forgive me, we've been saying that. And when you look at the problems of the United States' attitudes as well, and approach in the United States, in China and elsewhere, what - I wonder what difference Britain can make.
John Ashton: We've actually made a huge difference. It's not a well-advertised story but under three foreign secretaries, two governments, quite a strong cross-partisan effort built up, investment in very effective climate diplomacy, the EU is doing more, China is doing more, the U.S. is doing more already, because of British diplomacy. And that's what we need to keep investing in. But the problem is: there's a war broken out at home now, about how quickly we want to build a low-carbon economy in Britain. And the thing about diplomacy is: you can never hope to persuade other people to do more if you're not doing, yourself, what you're trying to persuade them to do.
Sarah Montague: So the fact that there is approval to be given for 20 gas-fired power stations means what, in terms of the messages at Doha?
John Ashton: I wouldn't say that we're sending Ed Davey naked into the conference chamber, but he certainly has a few loose buttons on his shirt. He's had a success with the Energy Bill, in laying a foundation for more investment in renewable energy in this country. But if, at the same time, we hear in the Autumn Statement tomorrow, that the door is open to dozens of new gas-fired power stations - which are going to be there for decades, if they're built - then that sends a very mixed signal. And people around the world will say "Well, actually, you know, are they serious about doing what they're asking us to do?"
Sarah Montague: Do we have an alternative, though? We're given the challenges of trying to find energy.
John Ashton: Oh, we have - we certainly do. I mean, first of all we have an enormous opportunity to use energy in a more efficient way. We have some of the least energy-efficient buildings in the whole of western Europe, in this country, it's a problem that hasn't been addressed for decades. And there's a chance to address it now in a way that would be good for the economy, including in the short term - it wouldn't impose extra costs, it would cut down energy bills for consumers, and so on. Renewable energy is becoming cheaper all the time - enormous opportunities there. And actually opportunities good for growth, good for jobs, good for competitiveness as well as good for climate change.
Sarah Montague: John Ashton, thank you very much.
John Ashton: Thank you.