20150618_AR

Source: BBC Radio 4: Today Programme

URL: N/A

Date: 18/06/2015

Event: Amber Rudd: "We're absolutely committed to decarbonising"

Credit: BBC Radio 4

People:

• Fergus Ewing: Scottish Minister for Business, Energy and Tourism
• Mishal Husain: Presenter, BBC Radio 4 Today programme
• Amber Rudd: Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change in the UK

Mishal Husain: The Conservative Party manifesto promised to end any new public subsidy for onshore wind farms, the sight of which angers some local communities. But now the government has decided to do that a year earlier than planned - April next year, rather than April 2017. The Energy and Climate Change Secretary Amber Rudd is in our Westminster studio this morning - good morning.

Amber Rudd: Good morning, Mishal.

Mishal Husain: Why did you decide to do this a year earlier than planned?

Amber Rudd: Well, it's a year earlier than was set up in the last Coalition government, but it is on schedule for delivering on our Manifesto. As you said, we agreed in the manifesto to close the subsidies early, and that's exactly what we're doing in announcing today.

Mishal Husain: Right, but it has had a significant impact, you'd accept, on those who'd imagined it would carry on until 2017, as set out by the last government, and you've made a significant change to that.

Amber Rudd: We've made a significant change, which was clearly alerted in our manifesto and by previous Conservative ministers, whose - indeed, including the Prime Minister, at the end of last year, who said very clearly: we will end early - earlier than set out in the plans under the Coalition government, the new subsidies to onshore wind, so I don't think this can come as a surprise to the industry.

Mishal Husain: Well, it does seem to have been a surprise to the Scottish government, for example, which has warned that it may seek a judicial review of this.

Amber Rudd: I have been in conversations with the Scottish government and I'm always going to engage with them on these matters. But the fact is: this is a pledge made by the Conservatives, who are running the UK government, and although I want to engage as closely as possible with my opposite number in Scotland, this is UK bill - taxpayers', bill-payers' money, and we've agreed to reduce it in this way, and overall, the UK has targets of making renewable energy by 2020, and we're going to be making them on the basis of the amount in the pipeline that will be within the grace period, by April next year.

Mishal Husain: Indeed it does have targets, and it also was part of what the G7 announced, only last week, about pledging a decarbonisation of our energy system over the course of this century. On this note about the Scottish government, I want to play you what the Scottish Minister for Business, Energy and Tourism, Fergus Ewing, said to us earlier this month. And this is about the effectiveness of onshore wind.

Fergus Ewing: It is irrational to reduce, or even scrap, onshore wind subsidies, when in fact, onshore wind is clearly still the most cost-effective large-scale way of deploying renewable technology in the UK. Economically, therefore, why would you want to bring that to a premature halt, and Keith Anderson of Scottish Power, in the industry, says that their calculations are that if you prematurely bring onshore wind to a halt, you will end up costing UK consumers an extra 2-3 thousand million pounds.

Mishal Husain: What - would you agree that onshore wind is the most cost-effective large-scale way of deploying renewable technology?

Amber Rudd: Can I just pick up on that final comment that Fergus was quoted as saying, from Scottish Power, which is that - the point about consumers' bills, and consumers' bills are absolutely central to what we're going to do. And this will not have the impact that was suggested, in terms of making bills go up. Actually, leaving the pipeline open for the longer period, I believe, would have that impact, because of this scale of wind farm potential deployment that is currently out there.

Mishal Husain: And can I go back to the question I asked you -

Amber Rudd: Of course.

Mishal Husain: - which was: do you agree that onshore wind is the most cost-effective large-scale way of deploying renewable technology?

Amber Rudd: It has become one of the most cost-effective ways.

Mishal Husain: What is more cost-effective?

Amber Rudd: Well, in terms of renewable energy, solar is just as cost-effective, and in fact solar has deployed with such success that it's almost reached grid parity. And the aim must be to support these renewable industries but also to make sure that they reach a stage, at some stage, where they don't need subsidies - we don't want to carry on subsidising, we want to support them so that they become competitive, economically - that's the goal.

Mishal Husain: But - I don't know if you heard Gordon MacDougall, who's the Chief Executive of a large renewable energy company, talking to us earlier on, who said that this is a political intervention just at the point that an industry is getting to the stage of not needing a subsidy - he agrees with you that what you want to do is not subsidise. The point is: when you end the subsidy and make the industry stand on its own feet.

Amber Rudd: Of course, and we have to create a balance between making sure that we support the industry but also making our targets and also looking after the taxpayer, and we've decided that this is the best way to do it. We will have 10% of our energy from wind farms, by 2020 - that was always what we thought we wanted to achieve, it's just being delivered, by successful industry, earlier than anticipated.

Mishal Husain: But when you think about what the G7 outlined last week about decarbonisation, it seems that the emphasis from, from the government is about exploiting natural resources, such as - you know, going down the fracking route - that's what George Osborne was saying was really important, just the other day - rather than harnessing renewable natural resources, such as our wind.

Amber Rudd: It's not one or the other. We're absolutely committed to decarbonising, and we're committed to growing our renewable energy - we're one of the world leaders, in terms of investment and in terms of deployment, but we think we can do both. We can exploit our shale industry - which, incidentally, of course has a lower carbon footprint than other, other sources - and we can also grow our renewable industry - we have more offshore wind than the rest of the world put together. Be in no doubt that we're absolutely committed to making sure that we decarbonise - we have to keep an eye on the cost at the same time.

Mishal Husain: Right. I want to ask you about the nuclear industry, in particular nuclear safety. The GMB union has written to your department, are very worried about Chinese investment in nuclear industry in the UK, are worrying that the Bradwell site in Essex could be handed over to China's national nuclear corporation - is that possible?

Amber Rudd: Well, I've written back to the GMB, and we have national safety targets, we have a very good record of environmental security and safety, which applies to the nuclear industry, so I hope I have been able to reassure them on that. We won't be - whatever type of outside investor that may come in and support our new nuclear, which we're very keen - I'm very keen to support -

Mishal Husain: Possibly the Chinese, then - you're not ruling that out?

Amber Rudd: I don't rule out the Chinese as an investor in the UK industry, absolutely not.

Mishal Husain: How do you feel about their nuclear safety record? One of their own leading scientists says that they're not investing enough in safety controls.

Amber Rudd: We have a good record of nuclear safety, and it'll be our safety record that we will be putting in place, any new nuclear.

Mishal Husain: Amber Rudd, thank you very much.