Source: BBC Radio 4: Today Programme
URL: N/A
Date: 02/11/2013
Event: Germany's move to renewables "costing a packet", but "sun and wind will always be for free"
Credit: BBC Radio 4
People:
Sarah Montague: Tomorrow, voters in Germany's capital and largest city go to the polls to decide if their electricity grid should be brought back into public hands. Across the country, the wave of privatisations of the '90s is now being reversed - there's been much discontent about how electricity is run, a bit like in Britain. In Germany renationalisation there is back on the agenda. Steve Evans is in a square in Berlin. Good morning, Steve.
Steve Evans: Good morning. I am - I'm overlooking a square in Prenzlauer Berg, in the old east of the city. Berlin just getting its socks on, rain clearing up, the birds getting their socks on, as it were. Every lamp post around here's had a poster urging people to vote in tomorrow's referendum to, as you say, retake the city's energy grid back into public ownership. One of the leaders of the campaign is Dr. Stefan Taschner, and he's with me now on the balcony. What's driving your campaign?
Stefan Taschner: Well, we want to have the energy supply back under public control. We know we have a big challenge here in Germany, the so-called "energy transition", the transformation from nuclear and fossil power plants to renewable. And this transition will be made on a local level. And to have influence on the local level, you need tools in your hand, and actually the tools lie at the Swedish enterprise Vattenfall. We want to have these tools back, in order to create our transition here in a more ecological, in a more social and in a more democratic way.
Steve Evans: And if you win, it creates law.
Stefan Taschner: Yeah, it creates law. We put up a draft law to vote, the referendum will be held on Sunday, we are quite confident we can win this referendum and get back the energy supply under public control.
Steve Evans: Now it should be said that there are many here who say it'll just put a burden on the taxpayer. The cost of the grid, and its upkeep, they say, is simply too great. Here's Henrik Vagt of the city's Chamber of Commerce.
Henrik Vagt: Should we invest even more money, like one billion euro, and then get relatively few benefits, and then refinance or repay it over the next 20 years? And what we have calculated is that in these 20 years, we won't earn a penny. And that's the reason why we, as the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, say that Berlin should not take the risk, because you don't actually get any financial benefit, and you don't get any energy benefit.
Steve Evans: Now, Dr. Taschner, you follow the British debate pretty closely. What are your observations on that, and the relevance of this referendum to that?
Stefan Taschner: Well, as I can say from the far distant Berlin, it seems to be quite crazy to invest in new nuclear power plants. This is not the pathway of renewable energy, this is not the pathway of climate protection, and it will lead to higher energy prices for sure, for Britain's people.
Steve Evans: Except that here prices are going up to finance the re-engineering of an economy away from nuclear. That's why you've got high bills here.
Stefan Taschner: Well, I wouldn't say that. So, it's really quite complicated. But it's for sure that within the next ten years, energy prices from renewables will be quite cheaper than from fossil or nuclear energy plants, because well, you know, sun and wind will always be for free, and the resources for nuclear and coal power are decreasing, and much more countries are buying for these resources.
Steve Evans: But, very briefly, a whole economy, a big economy has been re-engineered, and it's costing a packet.
Stefan Taschner: Yeah, but well, it's somehow the price for climate protection. As you know what Mr Stern has calculated the prices, if we don't do anything for climate protection. We see this also as part of Germany's contribution to climate protection worldwide.
Steve Evans: Dr. Taschner, thank you very much. The word I picked up there was "complicated" - the complicated view from Berlin.
Sarah Montague: Steve Evans, thank you very much.