20130611_AM
Source: BBC Radio 4: All in the Mind
URL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02q78p9
Date: 11/06/2013
Event: The psychology of wind turbines: "Do we prefer six small ones to three big ones?"
People:
- Claudia Hammond: Author and radio presenter
- Dr. Chris Jones: Lecturer in Social and Environmental Psychology
- Keelan Meade: PhD student, University of Sheffield
Claudia Hammond: We seem to have something of a love-hate relationship with wind farms, and last week the government announced that they're going to give people more power to block their construction.
Female newsreader: Planning guidance is to be changed to allow local communities stronger powers to block onshore wind farms, but the government is also hoping to encourage more wind power, by giving residents a much bigger financial incentive not to oppose developments.
Claudia Hammond: It turns out that our attitudes towards wind farms have more to do with psychology than you might think. Researchers found that our relationship with them is complex. Opposition doesn't just depend on how close they are to your home. Environmental psychologist Dr. Chris Jones is part of a group of researchers at Sheffield University who are seeking to understand more about the psychology of wind farms, even looking at our physiological reactions when we're confronted with them. I wrapped up warmly and went to meet him on a windy hill.
* * *
Claudia Hammond: We've driven about 20 minutes north-west of Sheffield and we are on the very top of a hill. We can see the Peak District in one direction, which is of course an area of outstanding natural beauty, and we're just under some really big wind turbines. And there are sheep and there are drystone walls and there are green hills - it is very, very windy up here and it is very wet, so we are sheltering in the car at this moment. So, Chris, how many wind turbines are here? Is this all just one wind farm?
Chris Jones: Well, this one that you can see here is one development - this is called Royd Moor - but there are another two in the area, which have been built much more recently. We've got Blackstone Edge and also Hazelhead, which is another three-turbine development.
Claudia Hammond: Can we talk about nimbyism first? So often that people will say that people generally like the idea but it's just that they don't want them in their backyard, they don't want them in their area. Is that fair to say?
Chris Jones: To an extent. I think you really have to be careful with terms like "nimby" - it kind of glosses over these fundamental differences that people have behind their reasons for objection of local wind developments or other kinds of facilities. If you look at the term "nimby" in a very sort of scientific way, what it refers to is a situation where you do have people who are generally supportive of the facility, the technology, like a wind farm, but then they compare that with the motivation to object to it at a local level, for reasons of self-interest. Now, as I say, some people would actually constitute those criteria, but many people don't, and are wrongly classified as nimbys.
Claudia Hammond: In your research, you've been looking at how people make decisions about what they think about wind farms being near them. What sort of factors are people taking into account?
Chris Jones: The reasons are manifold. I mean, it's not simply because people are being self-interested, it's not that they're solely concerned about their house price, for example. They may have concerns with the technology, for example, or the way it looks, indeed the visual impact is one of the main motivators as to public opinion towards wind development. You know, if you like the look of them, then you're more likely to accept them. if you don't like the look of them, well then perhaps you're going to be less agreeable to them. Other reasons as well - some people recognise that there are impacts on local wildlife. There are issues around noise as well, noise impact is a commonly stated thing. So, in terms of my research, it's clear that the reasons why people will object to wind farms are very, very diverse. And the problem is, though, that people will often perceive the reasons to be self-interest, even when they're not.
Claudia Hammond: And the car is being buffeted by the wind, as we speak right here, but... Are there ways of changing people's views, then? Are there certain ways that you should approach it? I mean, if people think they're ugly, they're never going to think they're beautiful, are they?
Chris Jones: I think there are a variety of ways in which you can address the issue. My research, and other people's research, suggests that one of the key things is that you involve people in the decision-making processes which are affecting them. One suggestion is that the reason why you get a lot of opposition when you propose a wind farm isn't due to anything specific about the technology per se - okay, granted, some people may like the look of them, or what have you - but rather it's a matter of process and the fact that we've had a legacy in the UK, certainly in recent past, of making decisions without involving the communities that are going to be affected, and then, sort of, announcing those decisions to them and expecting them to suddenly accept what they've been proposing.
So, certainly there's a suggestion, really, that the more participatory and engaging your decision-making process is, you may not actually convince people that these are nice-looking things, but what you may do is actually show - "Okay, look, we are using a fair, transparent process here, we're being very above-board in what we're proposing, we're involving you in this decision-making process".
And, at the end of the day, what you may find is that people may still not like the look of them, but they will actually say "Well, okay, we've been included here. And, okay, we still don't like wind turbines but at least we've been involved in the process". So, what you're doing there, by engaging people, is that you are kind of quelling any opposition which is based on a kind of process, rather than a matter of the technology.
Claudia Hammond: It really is raining hard now, so I think what we'll do is head back to Sheffield University, where your colleague Keelan Meade is studying our physiological reactions to seeing wind farms.
* * *
Claudia Hammond: What Keelan is doing is wiring people up to measure their physiology, while he shows them videos of landscapes with differing numbers of wind turbines in varying sizes. Do we prefer six small ones to three big ones?
Claudia Hammond [speaking to Keelan Meade]: So we're in your lab now. And by this stage of doing your study, you already know from the questionnaire whether people do or don't like wind farms, so I should come clean at this point and say I think they're quite calming, and I like looking at them - I think they're quite nice. So, what are we going to do?
Keelan Meade: Right, we're going to hook you up to a few different pieces of machinery. We're going to measure your heart rate and then your galvanic skin response, which are supposed to measure your parasympathetic nervous system. So it's supposed to be unconscious - you're not going to be able to control your reactions, so... What I'm trying to do is look at that, as well as track your eyes, to see where you look, and whether you focus on the wind turbines or other aspects of the landscape. And when that's happening, does your heart rate increase, do you have this kind of increased skin response, as a way of judging your emotional reaction to them? And what I'm trying to do then, is look at the difference between people who like them and people who dislike wind turbines.
Claudia Hammond: So why not just ask people whether they like them or not?
Keelan Meade: People lie. If you know in advance that I'm going to be trying to judge your emotional reaction to something, then perhaps, if you think that it's unacceptable socially to dislike wind turbines, you might try to control your reaction, you might try to pretend to me that you actually don't dislike them as much as you do.
Claudia Hammond: Okay, so what do we need to do? So you've got this kind of frame that's clipped to the edge of the table here. So I put my head through this frame?
Keelan Meade: There, you rest your chin there, and your forehead should rest against there, to keep it stable.
Claudia Hammond: Yeah.
Keelan Meade: Then we have an infra-red sensor here, which I touch to your thumb, which will measure the flow of your blood, which will measure your heart rate.
Claudia Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Keelan Meade: And then, just attach a couple of these electrodes, we'll pass a very, very small electrical current between your two fingers. And then, based on the changes in micro-sweating, the current will change. And based on that, we can see what your physiological reaction is. Press the mouse here, and we'll start the first video.
Claudia Hammond: So I click on the mouse and start the video. A lovely landscape - is that around here?
Keelan Meade: Um, well, yes, it's actually just outside Stockbridge, where we were, earlier today.
Claudia Hammond: There's a lot of trees, there's a farmhouse. There's some fields... Oh, there's a nice, pretty hill coming up, with some sunshine on it - that's a bit different from today... There's a wind farm. I can see one wind turbine there, going round and round, it's all sort of white on the horizon... Oh, there's some sheep.
Keelan Meade: Yeah, people do like to look at the sheep.
Claudia Hammond: Oh, there's the wind turbines. Oh, they're all going around - one, two, three, four of those. Five of those... Oh, there's some more. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten. There's lots.
Keelan Meade: The idea here is not just the difference between when the wind turbines are present and when they're not, but the specific size of the turbines in the groups, and also those that are moving and not moving, and see where -
Claudia Hammond: There's a couple more, here. A couple more big ones. They're not moving, either. And then there's some kind of TV aerial, or something... And another wind turbine...
* * *
Claudia Hammond: So that means I reacted when I saw the turbines, each time. But you can't tell whether that was reacting because I liked them or because I didn't like them.
Keelan Meade: Yes. That's the issue, so... That's why I'm trying to do the pre-screening questionnaire to consign people into groups of like or dislike, and I follow up with more specific questions on wind turbines, so hopefully I can attribute the response.
Claudia Hammond: So, in essence, when you get to the end of this research, what are you hoping to find out, psychologically?
Keelan Meade: Initially, with this, what I'll be looking at is the difference between people who like and dislike wind turbines, in terms of their skin conductance and also the eye-tracking - where they're actually looking, where they're focussing on their attention - and see if they're spending more time on wind turbines if they dislike them, or if they like them.
Claudia Hammond: So then you might be able to find ways of designing turbines into the landscape in a way that minimises people's responses.
Keelan Meade: Yeah, I mean the research is suggesting younger people are more in favour, and older people, people who are better educated or more money dislike them more. But when the planners come to put in ten megawatts of turbines, they wonder: "Should we put five medium-sized, three big ones, what if I put one, take away one, if this type of landscape, does that change things?" So it's kind of trying to get at the, really the nitty and gritty, those sorts of things.
Claudia Hammond: And while I was there, they taught me a few more acronyms that aren't always used fairly. I knew "nimby" but how about "notes" - "not over there, either", or the opposite - "pimbys", "please, in my back yard", or "bananas" - "build absolutely nothing anywhere near anyone". Keelan Meade and Chris Jones, at the University of Sheffield.