20140707_RW
Source: BBC Radio Wales
URL: N/A
Date: 07/07/2014
Event: BBC Radio Wales listeners hear about the "three-pillared tool", sustainability
Credit: BBC Radio Wales
People:
- Sarah Dickins: Economics Correspondent, BBC Radio Wales
- Felicity Evans: Presenter, BBC Radio Wales
Felicity Evans: Now, it's something that politicians all over the world aim to achieve, isn't it, policies that last and that continue to have a positive impact on society for years. Well, today the Welsh government will aim to ensure that it creates sustainable policies, from here on in, when it publishes the Well Being for Future Generations Wales Bill. Sarah Dickins is our Economics Correspondent - Sarah, what does this mean? Just explain what the Bill is.
Sarah Dickins: Well if you remember, we already have, don't we, a legal requirement for our governments to behave sustainably - that's been there since the whole beginning of devolution and is something that is very unusual around the world, let's say. And this is a kind of development on that; what we will see in the Future Generations Bill - the shorthand for it, which is tabled today and then the Minister will make a statement to AMs tomorrow - what we'll see in that are that the mechanisms, the practical steps towards how Wales can be more sustainable.
And I think, at that point, we need to be very clear about this word "sustainability". Often it's seen as a purely environmental issue and tied up with organics and all sorts of things like that - that isn't actually what the word means. Sustainability, in this context, when politicians are talking about it, when policy-makers are talking about it, is talking about sustainability across the economy, across social life and also the environment - it's very much a three-pillared tool, that need to work together. And that's what this Future Generations Bill is going to try and set out.
The way it's doing that is to, kind, of, basically, talk about, um, six goals that there should be for Wales. Um, now, you know, there are things like a happier Wales, a more prosperous Wales, a more equal Wales - there are those sort of goals that cover all of life. So this is really saying: we need, as Wales, to behave in a way where we don't use up our resources - be it the natural resources, be it the people or be it the economy.
Felicity Evans: ... For some people, this is going to sound... very difficult to disagree with - who, you know, could disagree with wanting to have a happier Wales - but it's a bit nebulous, isn't it. How do you measure whether we have a happier Wales? How do you do anything practical to ensure we have a happier Wales?
Sarah Dickins: Well exactly, I mean honestly, Felicity, that's exactly it. You know, those six goals - who would disagree - it's a bit like motherhood and apple pie, really, isn't it. Um, and that is one of the criticisms, is that a different approach may be better to, say, have one focus and go for it, rather than different sections. But if you actually look at it, what these goals do is they really cover all elements of public life, be it, you know, hospitals, be it help for mental health, maybe the economy. And the idea of this is that, for instance, any public body making a decision will have to see how that decision fits against all goals.
Now, I know that sounds woolly, but if you think about it like this, at the moment our public life is very much in departments, isn't it - there's education, there's health, there's the economy, in, sort of, silos, if you like. And what this Future Bill - Future Generations Bill, that obviously we don't know the full details of till tomorrow but we basically know the nuts and bolts - what that will do will mean that any public body will have to think about the impact of their decision on other departments, do you see? So if you're building a new hospital, you don't just think about "Is it going to be a fantastic hospital?", but you also need to check it about "Actually, are we employing local people?", "Is it something that people could easily get to on public transport?" a need to look at all those aspects involved in it.
And that's what's different about this - it's trying to get people to think more holistically, to use another jargon phrase, think about all aspects, all implications of a decision they make, rather than just thinking for their department. And again, that's quite a challenge, really, isn't it. I think many of us, in our working lives, know that often organisations do work in compartments, really, and it's about a change in mindset as well, getting away from that.
Felicity Evans: Yes, and in terms of the timescale, Sarah, as you say, the Bill is being laid before the Assembly today, it's going to be debated tomorrow. But you know, what are we looking at, in terms of when people can expect to see a bit of a - a bit of a difference?
Sarah Dickins: Well, what's quite interesting is: we already know bits about it, because there's been this thing called a National Conversation to help shape the legislation. And so there's been different groups meeting across Wales - there's one in Llanelli, as you were hearing earlier in the programme today - to try and channel views upwards. So a lot of that's already gone into the Bill. The Bill will be tabled today, a statement from Jeff Cuthbert, the Minister, tomorrow. And then they hope to make it law by the spring.
Um, there will be a lot of, sort of, detail that needs to be got through up until then, but they are very much trying, at least, to find out what the people of Wales want, and really what the people of Wales' priorities are, which already, in terms of single biggest issue, the National Conversation - "The Wales We Want", as they call it - is coming up with climate change, the natural environment and employment as the most important single issues, but when you look at what goals should be the highest priority, people have been telling them "more healthy people".
So, instead of those arguments that we used to have - "Do we have jobs or growth?", you know, that kind of thing, jobs or the environment - this is very much thinking "How do we have jobs that don't damage the environment, that mean people don't work too hard and have mental health problems, that...", you know, the whole round, if you like. Quite a challenge.
Felicity Evans: Sarah - yeah, quite a challenge, as you say - Sarah, thank you very much indeed, our Economics Correspondent Sarah Dickins, there.