Source: Soundcloud
URL: https://soundcloud.com/666abccanberra/australian-antarctic-division
Date: 09/01/2014
Event: Dr. Tony Fleming: "I feel like we've been misrepresented"
Credit: 666 ABC Canberra
People:
Louise Maher: There are still many questions hanging over the Antarctic expedition that was brought to a halt when the ship became trapped in ice, stranding the 52 tourists and scientists on board. A Chinese icebreaker, which went to the rescue of the Russian-crewed ship, also became stuck in the ice. The ship's passengers were eventually airlifted, a few days ago, to an Australian icebreaker, Aurora Australis, and that ship is due to reach Hobart in about a fortnight. Now the expedition leader, Professor Chris Turney from the University of New South Wales, who'd been inspired by Sir Douglas Mawson's expedition a century ago, has defended himself from growing criticism. He says he worked on the research programme, which included the impact of climate change, with the Australian Antarctic Division and other bodies, and he claims his expedition was considered significant enough to be given the official stamp of approval. But was it? Dr. Tony Fleming is the Hobart-based Director of the Australian Antarctic Division and he joins us now. Good morning, Dr. Fleming.
Tony Fleming: Good morning, Louise.
Louise Maher: Did you or your organisation give Chris Turney's expedition the official stamp of approval?
Tony Fleming: We didn't consider the science project and we didn't approve the science programme. What we did approve was the environmental impact of that expedition - er, we're bound to provide advice about the environmental impact. It didn't consider the operational aspects of the expedition, it didn't consider the science programme of the expedition, but we focussed on the environmental impact of that expedition.
Louise Maher: But he has strongly implied that what he was doing there, the reason for the expedition, did have your imprimatur - do you feel as though you have been misrepresented?
Tony Fleming: Ah, yes, I feel like we've been misrepresented. We didn't consider the scientific programme and we didn't approve the scientific programme, for that expedition.
Louise Maher: So how do you feel about that, that misrepresentation?
Tony Fleming: I've written to Professor Turney and I've talked to him a couple of days ago about that issue.
Louise Maher: And what was the result of that conversation?
Tony Fleming: Ah, look, I asked him to... to - in future comments, that he shouldn't misrepresent our approval for environmental aspects of the expedition.
Louise Maher: Do you think Professor Turney's expedition was too risky?
Tony Fleming: Ah, look, I haven't considered that. I'll look at the - the ice conditions and I'll look at the forecasts that they had access to. But, um, it's not the Australian Antarctic Division's role to, um, er, to look at the safety of private expeditions.
Louise Maher: Will you, though, have a role in assessing what went wrong?
Tony Fleming: Ah, look, I'll certainly personally look at what went wrong, so we'll learn from this, and there'll be - bound to be having discussions at the Antarctic Treaty meeting, later on this year.
Louise Maher: Professor Turney says that no amount of preparation could have mitigated what happened. He says there was nothing to suggest the mass breakout of sea ice was imminent. Do you agree with that, or do you know more about what actually happened which might contradict that view?
Tony Fleming: Yeah, so in the Commonwealth Bay region, there's a big iceberg has been grounded and it knocked the top off the Mertz Glacier ice tongue. And that provided conditions where there are multi-year sea ice around in Commonwealth Bay. And we knew that, and we passed that information on to Professor Turney, and -
Louise Maher: So that was a warning. That was a warning you gave.
Tony Fleming: Oh, we provided ice information to Professor Turney and his expedition. And it's up to him, and it's up to the captain of the vessel, where they will navigate. And so it was well-known that there was multi-year sea ice in the Commonwealth Bay region, because of the particular circumstances of that very big iceberg being grounded, and we had difficulty, a couple of years ago, getting into Commonwealth Bay. And it was well-known that there was multi-year sea ice in the Commonwealth Bay region. But it's up to - up to the captain of that vessel to make the judgement call about safety.
Louise Maher: Mm. So the safety - the final safety of the passengers rests with the captain and not the expedition leader?
Tony Fleming: Yes, it rests with the captain.
Louise Maher: Okay. Obviously, a lot of questions still to be answered, and we'll have to wait for the expedition - well, for the people to come home, first of all, which will happen in a few weeks.
Tony Fleming: Yes, they're currently at Casey - we're doing the resupply now, which was interrupted when we went to the rescue. And they're currently back at Casey and the 52 passengers are on board the Aurora Australis.
Louise Maher: Will they be leaving the ship? Will they be let off at Casey Station?
Tony Fleming: Ah, no, they'll be staying on the ship. We've focussed on the resupply, and get that done as quickly as we can, weather permitting. Weather's not good at Casey. And then we've got a couple of other voyages - we need to get that ship back to Hobart quickly, so that we can resupply the Mawson Research Station in the next voyage.
Louise Maher: This rescue mission has cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars and has disrupted scientific programmes, including your own - the delay in getting to Casey - but in what other areas has this affected the work that you're trying to do in Antarctica?
Tony Fleming: There were, um, programmes during the resupply, and we were interrupted part-way through that resupply, and we're trying to schedule those programmes now, and we're re-juggling the schedules. And the ship will get back to Hobart maybe about 22nd January, and - and then we'll be one week late to do the resupply at Mawson. It's a very tight window to resupply Mawson Research Station - the sea ice, er, inhabits the harbour at Mawson Research Station and there's a very tight window when the sea ice retreats from the harbour during the summer.
Louise Maher: Could other people be at risk, because of what's happened here?
Tony Fleming: Ah, no - we won't place anyone at risk. Um, safety of life at sea is our first priority, and so we won't place anyone at risk.
Louise Maher: How are you hoping to recoup the costs?
Tony Fleming: Er, we will... the passengers are on board the Aurora Australis now and we'll calculate the costs when the ship gets back to Hobart. And we'll make every effort to recoup the costs but it's a complicated process. There is insurance - insurers involved, and the ship's owner's involved and the expedition's involved, so it's a complicated process but we'll do everything we can to recover the costs.
Louise Maher: Might it eventually involve legal action?
Tony Fleming: Ah, look, I don't know about that, um, but, you know, we'll calculate the costs when the ship's - ship comes back to Hobart.
Louise Maher: I'm wondering if you would go that far to recoup the taxpayers' funds that have been used on this rescue mission?
Tony Fleming: Ah, look... I won't comment about that, because I don't have all the facts in front of me, because we're gathering information about the insurance arrangements and the ownership of the vessel, so I won't comment about that, because, as I say, I don't have all the facts in front of me.
Louise Maher: Right, okay, because I was going to ask you, finally, whether you think that what occurred was just a case of bad luck or whether you believe this expedition could have been better managed?
Tony Fleming: Ah, look, I won't make that judgement call now, because, um, as I say, I don't have all the facts in front of me, and I will look at the conditions at Commonwealth Bay, I'll look at all the information that they had, before they went to the polynya, and I'll, um, not make that judgement now.
Louise Maher: Mm. Do you know what the situation is, with the Russian ship? I've heard that the Chinese icebreaker that went to its rescue, that itself got stuck, has now been freed. But what about the original ship?
Tony Fleming: Ah, yes, both ships have been, have been broken out from the ice. The weather changed and the ice broke up, and they're both, I think, in free water now.
Louise Maher: One of our listeners says that he's heard reports saying there was enough food on the ship for two weeks, so given that, was it necessary to mount that rescue expedition in the first place?
Tony Fleming: There's - the captain made a call to indicate that the ship was in distress, and we always respond to that call, so it's not for me to judge whether that ship was in distress, it's the captain and the rescue coordination centre.
Louise Maher: Mm. Who will have overall charge of the investigation into what happened?
Tony Fleming: Ah, look, I'll talk to the Australian Maritime Safety Authority about that. They had the responsibility to mount the rescue mission, and we responded to their call.
Louise Maher: Okay, but in the meantime, you would ask Professor Chris Turney to desist from any implication that this expedition had the approval of the Australian Antarctic Division, that the scientific expedition had the approval?
Tony Fleming: Yes, that's right.
Louise Maher: Okay, thank you so much for joining us, this morning.
Tony Fleming: Okay.
Louise Maher: That's Dr. Tony Fleming, Director of the Australian Antarctic Division.