Source: YouTube
Date: 04/04/2009
EventCaroline Lucas on "binge flying" in ITV's Leaders of Europe TV debate
Attribution: UKIP

  • David Campbell-Bannerman: Prospective UKIP MEP
  • Caroline Lucas: UK Green Party Leader and MEP

Caroline Lucas: If people are going to find themselves suffering from climate change - as they will, there's been flooding across the south-east before, very recently - then they'll want to know why their political leaders didn't take decisions on their behalf, in time.

David Campbell-Bannerman: You know that half - 

Caroline Lucas: It's precisely a democratic issue, that people need to have that in mind - 

David Campbell-Bannerman: - half - 

Caroline Lucas: - and represent the people.

David Campbell-Bannerman: - half the British population flies every year. Half of it flies every year. You know, this is a massive thing, it's very important for their freedom - 

Caroline Lucas: Half of the population does not fly - 

David Campbell-Bannerman: Yes they do. It's a statistic.

Caroline Lucas: What is actually happening is that the same people are flying - 

David Campbell-Bannerman: Aviation White Paper.

Caroline Lucas: - over and over again, people are flying more and more to second homes. That's what I want to stop, this kind of binge flying. Of course, if one person - I want to stop it.

David Campbell-Bannerman: Well, why should they stop it? It's anti-liberty. 

Caroline Lucas: So is suffering from climate change. 

David Campbell-Bannerman: By all means, let them pay their true costs.

Caroline Lucas: [Inaudible] from climate change, David, but you seem to be in a completely other world.

David Campbell-Bannerman: No, let them pay their true costs, and noise is part of that, and the impact it has on property values. Yes, that's valid. But you know, you shouldn't be interfering with people's freedoms, that's totally undemocratic.

Caroline Lucas: When one person's freedom starts to undermine someone else's freedom, the freedom of us to fly as much as we like - 

David Campbell-Bannerman: Who says? Who says?

Caroline Lucas: It's perfectly logical that one person's freedom - 

David Campbell-Bannerman: You say.

Caroline Lucas: No! I think that even you would agree that people can't go around knifing people in the street - 

David Campbell-Bannerman: No. No. Fair enough. 

Caroline Lucas: - because there are limits to people's freedom. There are always limits. The question is where you draw it. Because I take climate change rather more seriously than you do, I should like to draw it in some way -

David Campbell-Bannerman: Is flying to Spain the same as knifing someone in the street?

Caroline Lucas: What? Yes it is! People are dying from climate change, David - this is news to you, obviously. I wish you lot would wake up!