20190416_GM
Source: ITV, Good Morning Britain
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRPyLUn9MdY
Date: 16/04/2019
Event: Gail Bradbrook: "I've two boys... and they won't have enough food to eat in a few years' time"
Credit: ITV, Good Morning Britain
People:
- Peter Bleksley: Former detective
- Dr. Gail Bradbrook: Co-founder of Extinction Rebellion
- Kate Garraway: TV presenter
- Richard Madeley: TV presenter
Richard Madeley: This is not a black and white issue. We do have a major issue with global warming and with climate change - it has to be addressed. And governments drag their feet and have to be brought to book on that. Why do you think that the level of action has crossed a line?
Peter Bleksley: Well, in order to create change within society, you need to have a social movement. And that means you need to reach out to the mainstream - and others - in order to convince governments that they need to take action. And I'm all for that - there is a raft of people out there who I'm sure are completely behind the idea that the government should act, without a doubt. However, when protesters start breaking the glass in revolving doors, daubing graffiti all over a building - which will cost thousands of pounds to repair -
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: And I say that I'm in a deep grief at the minute, that life on Earth is dying - we're in the sixth mass species extinction event - that my children don't have a future, that we haven't tackled this crisis. We've known about it for many years - 400,000 people a year die in other countries -
Richard Madeley: Could we spare the mission statement, and can we talk about the issue that we're here to talk - we're not here to have a big debate about global warming, we're actually here to talk about what you're doing about it. So the question is: how does it further your cause? I'm just putting the question, without agenda - how does it further your cause to stop people going to work, to stop people crossing London and going about their business, to deliberately stop them doing it? As opposed to a side-effect of a big demonstration - this is a deliberate attempt to stop free movement in the capital. How does that advance your cause, please?
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: It gets me on Good Morning Britain.
Richard Madeley: That's a very honest answer -
Richard Madeley: So do you feel that you've done it "the right way", in inverted commas, you've tried the petitions, the letter-writing and no-one's heard you - is that your argument?
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: It's not only that - emissions are increasing and the UK government claims to be a leader, but actually emissions are decreasing in such a tiny way in the UK. We are not tackling this crisis. I do want people to understand that this situation that we're in, this is absolutely unprecedented -
Richard Madeley: So, making an attempt to grab publicity - you're being totally honest about that, you're doing it purely -
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: That's part of the process, Richard, yeah? So, you get the publicity, and - we're not here to get people to like us. We're here to get people to have a conversation about the emergency.
Richard Madeley: So you don't care that you're really winding a lot of people up - you don't care about that.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: No - I don't want to wind people up, and I do apologise for the inconvenience caused, but you can hear the emotion in my voice - I've two boys, 10 and 13, and they won't have enough food to eat in a few years' time. Do you understand that? The UN Secretary-General -
Richard Madeley: I must [inaudible] I agree with you.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: No, the - Sir David Attenborough said that the collapse of this civilisation -
Richard Madeley: Yes?
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: - could happen soon.
Richard Madeley: Well, he's not a saint, you know. I mean, he's just a broadcaster.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: Sir David Attenborough. The UN Secretary-
Richard Madeley: He's just a broadcaster.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: The UN Secretary-General called an emergency meeting and said human extinction, in my children's lifetime, is a possibility. The Permian mass extinction had less carbon dioxide and heating than now, and that led to 97% of all life -
Richard Madeley: She's saying the ends justify the means, that's effectively what's she's saying.
Kate Garraway: Well, actually more than that - if I could just ask the question, you know. We are full of history - well, you can hear the passion in Gail's voice. Whatever other people might say, you believe this, you care about this. Our history is full of people who cared about causes - there were women who threw themselves under horses and chained themselves to railings so that I have the chance to vote. Um, and Charlotte and Gail and all women - and indeed actually all people, universal suffrage. So what's wrong with standing up and fighting when you believe the cause to be that serious?
Peter Bleksley: I utterly respect people's right to protest, of course I do, we live in a democracy. But there's a far more cerebral way we can go around this, for example -
Kate Garraway: Do people listen to cerebral arguments, you see? Because -
Peter Bleksley: Yes, never underestimate your audience.
Kate Garraway: Do they? Do they, though?
Peter Bleksley: Oh, absolutely. The most fatal mistake you can make -
Kate Garraway: Why haven't they, in this case?
Peter Bleksley: Well - people are listening. And there is - there is a great groundswell of opinion, of people who are deeply, deeply concerned about climate change and the environment. But you have to reach out to that broad spectrum of people, to the mainstream. It's the same as if a politician wants to win a general election - you have to reach out to the mainstream and convince people to come over to your way of thinking. A far more cerebral thing to do, rather than daubing graffiti and breaking glass doors at the Shell building, would be to find the petrol retailer who has the most ethical and environmentally friendly kind of policies and persuade people to go to that retailer.
Richard Madeley: Do you think that - do you think that your actions are taking place in the right place, in the right country? I mean, the government would argue that this country is on the front foot, as far as taking action to reduce global warming and emissions [inaudible] - I know you disagree with that, but they would say that. And there are other countries, such as China, which apparently don't give a stuff. One wonders, perhaps, if you should be focussing your actions on countries which are directly responsible for the kind of global warming that terrifies us all.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: Extinction Rebellion is a global movement - my responsibility is to support that global movement, but in particular in the UK. This government's just opened a new oil platform, opened a new coal mine, it's promoting fracking, it's promoting incineration for apparently generating energy - that's worse than coal, is opening a new runway at Heathrow. We're not doing what needs to be done. And you're quite right - the suffragettes, the Chartists before them, for the men's vote, they did these tactics. The GM crop protesters did these tactics. There is deep social-science research to say this is the way you have to go about things. You have to create a confrontation, because we're in this system - I've been there as well, we're all stressed, we've all got, you know, kids and jobs and we're just trying to cope with life, and we don't want to think about these things - too difficult. It's like - if you had a problem with your relationship, you've got sometimes you've got to say "Hang about, stop - we've had enough. This has got to change." You've got to create the disruption, you've got to create the emotion.
Richard Madeley: You say we've got two weeks of this in the capital and then you're going to roll it out across the country.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: Um, it's already been happening across the country, Richard, at different times - we're not going away.
Richard Madeley: It's going to intensify, isn't it.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: That's the idea, and we call people to join us, we're very peaceful, we want it to be beautiful, and doing it - if you've got grandchildren, I'm doing this for your grandchildren.
Peter Bleksley: I'm younger than I look [Richard Madeley is laughing] and I have teenage children not dissimilar in ages to yours.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: Have they gone on school strike?
Peter Bleksley: They are - they are passionate about the environment - they lead the way in persuading their friends to recycle, reduce journeys and all of that. As a family, we're across it. Please demonstrate, lobby, campaign - just don't break the law.
Dr. Gail Bradbrook: Read your history books, babe [?] though, about what works, because if you've got a better plan about what I should do, I'm with you, brother.
Peter Bleksley: We'll talk about it in the green room.