20160906_DP
Source: BBC2: The Daily Politics
URL: N/A
Date: 06/09/2016
Event: Caroline Lucas on air pollution as a racist issue
Credit: BBC2: The Daily Politics
People:
- Jo Coburn: Presenter, The Daily Politics
- Caroline Lucas: Green Party (UK) MP for Brighton Pavilion
Jo Coburn: I'm joined today by the Green Party MP, Caroline Lucas. She's just been elected joint leader of her party, in the first ever British political job share, alongside her co-leader Jonathan Bartley - congratulations.
Caroline Lucas: Thank you very much.
Jo Coburn: And as they're sharing the job, in the spirit of all things, we'll be letting them share the programme too, so he'll be along for the second half of the show. Let's start by talking about a protest that's been causing disruption at London City Airport. Protesters from a group called Black Lives Matter chained themselves together on the runway, early this morning, forcing flights in and out of the airport - which is used by many business travellers - to be cancelled or delayed.
Black Lives Matter, which was originally formed in the US in response to police shootings of black people, was launched in the UK earlier this year, and has previously blocked traffic to Heathrow and Birmingham Airports. The group claimed today's protest was to highlight what they said was the UK's environmental impact on the lives of black people. The Metropolitan Police said that all nine of the protesters have now been removed and arrested.
Caroline Lucas, in their, sort of, information about the group, they say "We believe the time is now for a Black Lives Matter movement in the UK, to shut down a nationwide crisis of racism and to fight for all black lives". Do you think there is a nationwide crisis of racism in the UK?
Caroline Lucas: Yes I do, and I think the figures probably will reinforce that. And certainly the point that they're making today, with the action that they've taken, is that environmental effects affect the poorest people most, in other words air pollution, negative environmental problems are more likely to be affecting people of colour, black people, more. In the case of the City Airport, we know that the surrounding area, Newham, is disproportionately, if you like, populated by people of colour - it's a poorer area, and they are 28% more likely to be exposed to air pollution. And so this link between environmental problems and people of colour and poverty is one I think that absolutely has to be made.
Jo Coburn: And is there real evidence to show that? I mean, I live under the flightpath of Heathrow, for example, and there is a purely [?] mixed community all along through Hounslow and back into London. Are there figures to substantiate what you say, that actually black and ethnic minority communities suffer more from air pollution?
Caroline Lucas: I think because they tend to be living in more urban areas, that's the correlation, I don't think there's anything intrinsic about that.
Jo Coburn: But there's no - right, there are no figures, no evidence, and everyone - and everyone obviously suffers from air pollution.
Caroline Lucas: Everybody certainly does, and this is a good way of making that point, but I do think that there is a particular issue, for example, around City Airport where, as I say, black people in that area are 28% more likely to be suffering from air pollution. And they're more likely to be living in poverty, and therefore more likely to be unable to run away from - move away from - areas of high pollution.
Jo Coburn: But of course there will be people in black and ethnic minority communities who use airports and City Airport too, and by disrupting and blocking the airport - is that really the best and most effective way to highlight racism?
Caroline Lucas: Well, it's certainly not the first way to do it, and it's not the first way that Black Lives Matter has been doing it.
Jo Coburn: Sure -
Caroline Lucas: There's been a long tradition of going through all of the usual channels of raising issues with parliamentarians, writing letters, er, you know, lobbying, petitions, all of that. But when it comes to issues where - we've just had a report today, haven't we, about air pollution and the links to other neurological diseases - when it comes to climate change, we know that this country is behind, in terms of really taking the kind of commensurate action that we need to see. And that is going to be disrupting people's lives an awful lot more than this airport disruption has.
Jo Coburn: If we look at one of the pictures we've got of the protest - now, these are just the protesters we can see, we can't see all nine of them - but they're all white, which is interesting, when you think this is a protest trying to highlight racism and that black lives matter.
Caroline Lucas: I - take your point, I've looked at their website and of course on the website there's far more people from black and minority ethnic backgrounds who are talking. I wasn't part of the organisation, I can't see why that is the case -
Jo Coburn: No, sure, it's interesting that there aren't any black demonstrators that you can see, that's all, blocking the runway, which I presume is where that picture was actually taken. And is pollution really the biggest problem facing the black and ethnic minority community?
Caroline Lucas: Well, to the extent that pollution is causing premature death, then I would say that absolutely it is - air pollution in London is at critical levels, and that's why they've been taken to court.
Jo Coburn: Sure, but is it specific, is what I'm trying to say - is it really about racism?
Caroline Lucas: Well, I feel a little bit awkward, as a white person here, judging whether or not black people believe that air pollution is a racist issue. I can understand entirely why they say that, and I don't think Black Lives Matter is only working on the environment - they work on a range of issues - but to the extent that they are raising an issue that I think does need to be much higher at the top of the political agenda, in other words the links between environmental problems and exposure of black people, then I think that's an absolutely legitimate thing to do.