20140626_R4

Source: BBC Radio 4: Today Programme

URL: N/A

Date: 26/06/2014

Event: Chris Smith: Owen Paterson "does sense that something is happening, that the weather is changing"

Credit: BBC Radio 4

People:

• Lord Smith: Chris Smith, Chairman of the Environment Agency, UK
• Justin Webb: Presenter, BBC Radio 4: Today Programme

Justin Webb: Has this government been the "greenest ever", as the Prime Minister once promised, or has it ditched the "green crap", as he's also rumoured to have said? Is there a long-term plan for dredging in the Somerset Levels? And was the background briefing and personal sniping that's surrounded that issue part of the reasonable rough and tumble of public life, or was it something else? Chris Smith, Lord Smith, is leaving his post as head of the Environment Agency, at the end of next month. He makes a speech today in which he'll touch on all or most of these issues, and he's here - good morning to you.

Lord Smith: Good morning.

Justin Webb: Greenest government ever, yes or no?

Lord Smith: By and large, no. Er, I think really disappointing that this government hasn't done as much as it promised it was going to do, in relation to the environment. But, I have to say, that's a charge that I would level at all the political parties and all governments rather than just this government.

Justin Webb: Why - what happens?

Lord Smith: I - I fear that most politicians and most governments, at the moment, see the environment as something that's a bit generalist, it's a bit amorphous, it's not something that really hits to the reality of people's lives, and so they don't pay it very much attention. But actually, if you talk to people on the ground, in their communities, looking at their bit of their environment - the quality of the river down the bottom of their village, the quality of the landscape around the place they live, the quality of the urban streetscape that they live in - if you talk to people about their bit of the environment, they are absolutely passionate about it. And making that link between their passion for the place they live in and what public policy can do about it, is something that I think all politicians have neglected to do enough about.

Justin Webb: Do you think Owen Paterson is the right person to be Environment Secretary?

Lord Smith: Owen Paterson has worked extremely well with me, with the Environment Agency and with a lot of environmental organisations, over the course of the last year and a half or so.

Justin Webb: He's accused of being a sceptic on climate change. I mean, he does say it's a serious issue, but he also says that it's not necessarily going to be as grim as we're sometimes warned. And some people say that renders him incapable of being the Environment Secretary that we need in these times. So that's not your view.

Lord Smith: No, because I think he has actually done a pretty good job, on most of the things that he's responsible for. He provided a lot of good leadership, even from his hospital bed, during the really extreme weather that we faced, over the course of the winter. He's - he believes that climate change is happening. He sees that - absolutely rightly - he sees that there's extreme weather now happening much more frequently than it used to. I would have a serious debate with him about the human activity that gives rise to that, because I believe that climate change is down to the things that we all do, as human beings, and we need to deal with that, seriously, over the coming decades. He probably wouldn't agree with me on that, but he does sense that something is happening, that the weather is changing and - as a community, as a nation - we need to be serious about tackling it.

Justin Webb: Have you made your peace with Eric Pickles?

Lord Smith: I have to say I had my run-ins with Mr Pickles over the winter. He unforgivably, for a moment, called into question the professionalism and dedication of my staff in the Environment Agency.

Justin Webb: Yeah, he said "I apologise unreservedly, I'm really sorry we took the advice of what we thought we were dealing with experts".

Lord Smith: Yep, and I took very, very serious difference with him, on that.

Justin Webb: Has he ever resiled from that? Has he apologised to you, to them?

Lord Smith: He did stand up in the House of Commons, a couple of days later, and say "I love the Environment Agency". That was good enough for me. I - he was -

Justin Webb: So you have made your peace?

Lord Smith: He was wrong to say what he did, because he called into question the dedication of my staff, who were, at the time, absolutely working their socks off, in response to the extreme weather events.

Justin Webb: On the subject of dredging, and particularly in Somerset, the dredging has been done that was promised, just about on time. is it going to be regular? Are you satisfied now, as you are about to leave this post, that there is in place a plan - with money - for regular dredging of the Somerset Levels?

Lord Smith: Well, what we're doing at the moment is a major dredging operation to put the River Tone and the River Parrett, about eight kilometres' worth of both rivers, into really good condition. And that dredging work is, as you say - it's on schedule, it will all be completed - if the weather allows us to do that - by the autumn. The - what will then need to happen is regular maintenance of that, going forward. Now, that may well not be something that's the responsibility of the Environment Agency, may well be the local drainage boards, it may be the local landowners, it - there will need to be an agreement about who will be responsible for keeping it up, over the course of the coming years.

Justin Webb: But you're confident, are you, finally, that agreement can be put in place?

Lord Smith: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Justin Webb: And there will be the money for it? The Somerset Levels will be regularly dredged, into the future.

Lord Smith: Well, the money, of course, is up to the government - it's not up to me. But I have to say: it isn't just the dredging that needs to be done, for Somerset - there's an awful lot else that needs to be done. There's a lot happening, at the moment - we're raising some of the banks, we're doing stuff with the King's Sedgemoor Drain - all of that will help. The really big intervention will be if we can get a sluice at the - a sluice gate at the bottom of the River Parrett, at Bridgwater, to stop the tide coming in from the Severn Estuary. If that can happen - and there's a lot of discussion under way, at the moment, about how that should be funded - but if that can happen, then it really will provide a long-term solution to the problem.

Justin Webb: Lord Smith, thank you very much for talking to us.