20160603_SK
Source: Sky News, YouTube
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA
Date: 03/06/2016
Event: Michael Gove on experts from "organisations with acronyms"
Credit: Sky News, YouTube channel rpmackey
People:
- Michael Gove: Conservative MP, former Lord Chancellor
- Faisal Islam: Political Editor, Sky News
Faisal Islam: The leaders of the US, India, China, Australia, every single one of our allies, the Bank of Engand, the IFS, the IMF, the CBI, five former NATO Secretary-Generals, the Chief Exec of the NHS and most of the leaders of the trade unions in Britain all say that you, Boris and Nigel are wrong. Why should the public trust you over them?
Michael Gove: I'm not asking the public to trust me - I'm asking the public to trust themselves. I'm asking the British public to take back control of our destiny from those organisations which are distant, unaccountable, elitist and don't have their - and their own interests at heart.
Faisal Islam: Elitist?! Elitist?!
Michael Gove: Absolutely, because in -
Faisal Islam: The Lord High Chancellor - conspiracy of elites - it sounds like something out of Wolf Hall.
Michael Gove: Well, I'm - I haven't seen Wolf Hall, but the one thing that I would say is that the people who are backing the Remain campaign are people who've done very well, thank you, out of the European Union and the people, increasingly, [audience applause] - absolutely.
Faisal Islam: So there's a, there's a -
Michael Gove: The people - and the people who are arguing that we should get out are concerned to ensure that the working people of this country at last get a fair deal. I think the people in this country have had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms saying -
Faisal Islam: This country have had enough of experts?! What do you mean by that?!
Michael Gove: From organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best, and getting it consistently wrong -
Faisal Islam: The people of this country have had enough of experts?!
Michael Gove: Because these people, these people are the same ones who got consistently wrong what was happening -
Faisal Islam: This is proper Trump politics, isn't it.
Michael Gove: No, this is actually a faith in the -
Faisal Islam: It's Oxbridge Trump.
Michael Gove: [laughs]: It's a faith, Faisal, in the British people to make the right decision -
Faisal Islam: Blind faith.
Michael Gove: I don't think it is, because one of the the striking things about this debate is that those who are arguing that we should remain have a vested financial interest in the operation of the European Union -
Faisal Islam: Ah right, so so are they lying or are they stupid or is there a conspiracy - there's a conspiracy.
Michael Gove: No, I'm pointing out that the majority of people in this country are suffering as a result of our membership of the European Union. Their wages are lower -
Faisal Islam: A majority of people -
Michael Gove: Yes -
Faisal Islam: The majority of people -
Michael Gove: Their wages are lower -
Faisal Islam: - 33 million people -
Michael Gove: - their access to public services is restricted, and -
Faisal Islam: What's your factual basis for that claim that 33 million people are suffering from EU membership? [Audience applause.]
Michael Gove: [pointing to the audience]: Well, we can hear [inaudible].
Faisal Islam: What's your factual basis for saying that the majority of people in this country are suffering from EU membership?
Michael Gove: Well, I know -
Faisal Islam: You don't have it, do you.
Michael Gove: I know, myself, from my own background - I know that the European Union depresses employment and destroys jobs. My father -
Faisal Islam: We haven't got a majority.
Michael Gove: My father had a fishing business in Aberdeen, destroyed by the European Union and the Common Fisheries Policy.
Faisal Islam: That's one person.
Michael Gove: The European Union has hollowed out communities across this country, which has also contributed to lower salaries for working people, and it has also ensured that young people in this country don't have the opportunities to get the entry-level jobs that we heard about last night. Now you can say that their concerns don't matter -
Faisal Islam: I didn't say -
Michael Gove: You can dismiss their concerns -
Faisal Islam: I didn't dismiss it, I said you said "a majority"
Michael Gove: You were, you were dismissing my father's example -
Faisal Islam: I did not dismiss it -
Michael Gove: You were dismissing the claims of working people. You're on the side, Faisal, of the elite, I'm on the side of the people. [Audience applause.]
Faisal Islam: You said "a majority" - you said "a majority" - you, the Lord High Chancellor said a majority of the British public were suffering from the EU.
Michael Gove: Yes.
Faisal Islam: You have no factual evidence for that, whatsoever.
Michael Gove: Let me give you a fact. [Audience applause.]
Faisal Islam: No, you don't have any evidence for it.
Michael Gove: Yes, I do.
Faisal Islam: Well, let's move on -
Michael Gove: Every year, we give billions of pounds to the European Union, billions of pounds that we should be spending here. Taxpayers are handing money over to the European Union -
Faisal Islam: Ah yes.
Michael Gove: - so that it can be spent on Jean-Claude Juncker's expense account and his private jets -
Faisal Islam: Right...
Michael Gove: - rather than being spent on our NHS and our priorities.
Faisal Islam: Well, David Cameron's got a plane as well, hasn't he, David Cameron's got a plane. It's your government, it's your government's policies that have directly contributed to some, er, poorer people's loss of income - you've cut their benefits, so why are you not blaming that [audience applause], you're blaming Europe, all the problems of this country on Europe, that's what you're doing.
Michael Gove: I don't blame all the problems of this country on Europe - I do believe the European Union is contributing -
Faisal Islam: - 33 million people, that you can't find a factual basis for, though.
Michael Gove: Well, I've already pointed out to you a number of facts which - you haven't denied one of them.
Faisal Islam: Well, let's have a - let's have a fact, there's been a fact - on the side of your bus, in one-metre tall letters, and let me quote, "We send £350 million to Brussels every week, let's fund the NHS instead." Which week was it that we sent £350 million to Brussels? [Audience applause.] Was it this week, last week, was it Christmas week, Easter week - which week?
Michael Gove: Every week we actually send more than £350 million to Brussels, we -
Faisal Islam: So, hang on, it comes out of a bank account in Britain and goes to Brussels. Does it literally leave the country?
Michael Gove: We - yes, because if you look at the -
Faisal Islam: No, it doesn't.
Michael Gove: If you look at the Office of National Statistics report -
Faisal Islam: I looked at the report -
Michael Gove: - they point out that we send more than £350 million there -
Faisal Islam: But we don't send it, it doesn't leave the country -
Michael Gove: Yes, we do.
Faisal Islam: Doesn't leave the country.
Michael Gove: We get some of it back.
Faisal Islam: Doesn't leave the country.
Michael Gove: And we do get some of it back.
Faisal Islam: You know it doesn't leave the country, and you don't have to listen to me. UK Stats Authority said that the figure's misleading, the Treasury Select Committee containing Brexiteers says it's deeply problematic - one of your own backbench colleagues, a Conservative MP, who's campaigning to leave, is a respected doctor, refuses to hand out leaflets because he'll say you're treating the public as fools. [Audience applause].