Source: BBC Radio 4: Today
URL: N/A
Date: 31/08/2016
Event: Roger Harrabin: "Some people will look at this and think it's a bit of a scam"
Credit: BBC Radio 4
People:
Sarah Montague: We need to stop worrying about the lights going out because of power shortages - that's what the new head of the National Grid says. She's been speaking to our Environment Analyst Roger Harrabin. And Roger, isn't it her job to worry about how much power we have?
Roger Harrabin: Yes it is, but she doesn't seem to be worrying - she says she's preoccupied but not worrying, and says people shouldn't fret. I mean, the big question here, Sarah, is: what are we going to do, into the future, as we're losing our coal-fired power stations and bringing more and more intermittent renewables, in particular wind, onto the system? Because that is leaving the margins tight, in the winter in particular when there's going to be no wind, and there are fears regularly in the media that the lights are going to go out. But I spoke to Nicola Shaw, as you said - her phrase was "stop fretting, the lights are staying on".
So that's partly because we're going to be building new gas-fired power stations, but partly because of something she calls the "smart energy revolution". And I think most people won't have heard of this or be aware of the extraordinary change that is under way in the electricity industry. We're starting to store electricity now, from the grid, when there's lots of it from windy days, with giant batteries on a grid scale.
And then, in future - and this is the really interesting bit - that millions of people, millions of people and firms round the country, are going to be generating their own energy from solar, storing it with batteries, software's going to allow these batteries to also store energy from the grid, sell it back to the grid - so you're helping your neighbours and the grid if you have a solar panel and a battery. And software is going to be, as she says, one of the biggest influences in energy this century, and in future even your kitchen appliances could be wired up to support the grid, by using electricity flexibly, which is an extraordinary thought - your freezer can be supporting the National Grid.
Sarah Montague: Mm. Now, even however much solar we're all building, we are going to miss the targets on energy that comes from renewables, aren't we?
Roger Harrabin: We are going to miss the renewables targets, according to National Grid, unless something very radical happens, and it looks like it's too far gone for that, now, the 2020 target set by the EU. With Brexit, of course, that may not matter. What matters is what we're doing, in terms of our overall policy towards our own climate change laws, which we're assuming will stay in place when we leave the European Union. And the government says it still is committed to its Climate Change Act, which is legally binding, and that does mean new capacity, new green capacity coming on board.
And that's why it's pressing so hard for Hinkley C - we're still waiting on Hinkley C because a lot of people - I mean, it's fair to say most analysts say we're not going to meet our 2030 targets unless we have nuclear - 2030 targets for climate change - unless we have nuclear power. We're going back to the Nicola Shaw business, the problem is with nuclear is it's an extremely bad fit with wind, because the wind blows off and on, and we need backup power to supply energy when the wind isn't blowing. And nuclear is an extremely bad fit for that, because once your nuclear is on it's on, and that is a real conundrum for the government, that they're going to have to sort out, sooner rather than later.
Sarah Montague: Roger Harrabin, thank you very much.
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Mishal Husain: The new head of the National Grid in the UK says people need to stop worrying about the lights going out. Nicola Shaw says a smart energy revolution will reduce the need for new conventional power stations, and our fridges, freezers, washing machines and dishwashers will play an active part in balancing energy demand.
Nicola Shaw: People with solar power, with batteries, thinking about the way they use their power differently, so turning down the electricity use - air-conditioning, or something - at different times of the day, so that they get the energy at the times they need it, at the most efficient price. And all of that is a real revolution, it's a smart energy revolution, it's changed the way we're thinking about energy, across the country.
Mishal Husain: How will this smart energy revolution take place? Our Environment Analyst Roger Harrabin explains.
[Sounds of machinery.]
Roger Harrabin: In giant cylinders at an industrial plant near Heathrow, Aggregate Industries are heating the black stuff that makes roads. This plant is also running a lucrative sideline - it's helping keep Britain's lights on, even though it doesn't generate power, itself. So how's that? Well, the bitumen in these cylinders is usable between 130 and 185 degrees. If National Grid expect a peak in demand, they pay the firm to turn off the bitumen heaters until demand on the grid subsides and the price of electricity drops. The bitumen is insulated, so it stays hot anyway, and no production is lost. Then, when there's too much electricity on a windy day, the firm's rewarded for turning up the heat, to balance the power on the grid. The requests and payments are made via what will become the Internet of Energy. Donna Hunt from Aggregate Industries simply loves it.
Donna Hunt: I think this is a no-brainer for us and for industry, really, because we're turning our equipment off and we're saving energy, we're not generating carbon whilst it's off, and we're making an income stream as well, for allowing our assets to be used flexibly.
Roger Harrabin: Some people will look at this and think it's a bit of a scam.
Donna Hunt: I disagree - I think it's a useful incentive, right now, to drive industry to do more, so as together we're making the grid more flexible and also it's a lot cheaper than building another power station.
Roger Harrabin: And on the outskirts of Oxford, here's another glimpse into the future of energy.
Matthias Kauer: Welcome to Sharp Laboratories of Europe.
Roger Harrabin: Thank you. The real drivers in the energy revolution are software and controls. And here in Oxford they're researching systems that will allow millions of ordinary homes to play their part in storing energy from the grid. This lab mocks up a situation in which a large battery in a home will store energy from solar panels on the house roof and use it when the sun's not shining. We've already achieved that. Step 2 is for that same battery to store surplus power from the grid, like for instance when wind farms are making a lot of energy. Matthias Kauer works here. Matthias, how long before it'll be commercially viable to store energy on behalf of your neighbours and on behalf of the grid?
Matthias Kauer: Well, we have a pilot system here in the lab, that already achieves that, and our next step is to trial that system in the field, during the next year. So we think it could be as soon as 2018 that we're seeing this type of system in the field.
Roger Harrabin: And how long before it could be commercially viable, without a subsidy?
Matthias Kauer: Well, our target is to make this system commercially viable, without a subsidy, from the start.
Roger Harrabin: If that's right, then in just a couple of years, millions of homes and firms could be making money by helping balance peaks and troughs on the grid - an extraordinary thought. While the smart energy revolution takes hold, the UK will still need more backup capacity, from firms rewarded for keeping generating plant on standby, at times of peak demand. Analysts like Deepa Venkateswaran from the consultancy Bernstein warn that for the short term, more gas plant will be needed, too.
Deepa Venkateswaran: I think the smart grid revolution is going to be quite exciting - we as consumers are going to play a role in moving our demand around, industrial corporations are going to play their part, our electric vehicles will play a part. However, I think there's a time frame - we need some time to all get wired up and respond dynamically, but I think in the short term, what we need is new gas build, to replace some of our ageing coal stations which are going to close.
Roger Harrabin: The government's trying to get some gas-fired power stations built, but ministers are aware that to avoid locking the UK into a fossil-fuel future, they need policies to encourage many more recruits like Aggregate Industries to join the smart energy revolution.
Sarah Montague: Roger Harrabin reporting.