20120725_ED
Source: BBC Radio 4: Today Programme
URL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9740000/9740538.stm
Date: 25/07/2012
Event: Ed Davey: "our climate change challenge needs this green energy"
People:
- Ed Davey: Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change in the UK
- Roger Harrabin: BBC's Environment Analyst
- James Naughtie: Presenter, BBC Radio 4 Today programme
James Naughtie: Well, the Department of Energy and Climate Change is claiming a victory over the Treasury over subsidies for onshore wind generation. The cut in subsidy, as we've just heard, is going to be 10%, not 25%. Supporters of the Coalition's target for decarbonisation, as it's known, of the electricity industry, by 2020, are pretty pleased by that. But the Chancellor, George Osborne, is reported to be ready to return to the fray, because he and his department would like a rather deeper cut. Ed Davey, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary, joins us now, but first let's have a quick word with Roger Harrabin, our environment analyst. Roger, will this stick?
Roger Harrabin: Well, we have to see whether it will stick, Jim. On the face of it, this is a victory for the LibDem Energy Secretary Mr Davey, as you just said. He has managed to fight off the Treasury, which was under pressure from backbench Conservatives who simply don't like wind farms in the countryside and wanted the subsidies cut radically. Now, Mr Davey has held the cut to 10%, which is agreeable to the wind industry and will keep investment going. So on the one hand that looks like a victory, but if you read through the statement you see what looks like a major concession, although I'm sure the LibDems will say it's not. And that is that the Treasury has been insisting that if gas prices fall globally, British consumers should be able to benefit. And the statement says that gas will continue to play a substantial part in the generation mix beyond 2030. And that's crucial, because that's a date set by the government's official advisers by which time all of the energy system should be carbon-free. So gas is not compatible with that, unless we bring some unproven technology into play. So that is a concession - a major one, I suggest - and I think a lot of grass-roots LibDems will be very unhappy with it.
James Naughtie: Roger, thanks very much. And as you say, Ed Davey, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary, is waiting for us. Good morning, Mr Davey.
Ed Davey: Good morning.
James Naughtie: The real question here is really the same one that I put to Roger. Can you hold the line, on this 10% rather than 25% cut, and make sure that in the autumn - having won this battle - you don't lose out?
Ed Davey: The case for investment in renewable energy and clean energy is so strong, and I think that's why, cross-government, we're backing this package. It's based on the evidence. We've done a major consultation, talked to industry, talked to independent third parties, and the evidence shows that yes, there should be a cut in subsidies but it should be a modest 10% cut. And that will bring forward investment, between 20 and 25 billion pounds, with probably hundreds of thousands of jobs coming forward on the back of that. The economy needs that investment, and our climate change challenge needs this green energy.
James Naughtie: Can I just return to the question? Can you hold the line on that figure, in the autumn?
Ed Davey: Yes.
James Naughtie: Right. So if the Treasury comes back and says "Oh well, we still think that the case for 25 is strong", they won't get their way. Full stop.
Ed Davey: Well, what the legislation says - and this has been on the statute books for some time - is that if there is evidence that there's been a major change, a significant change in generating costs for any renewable technology - not just onshore wind, but any of the 30 or more technologies that we're discussing today - if there any significant change to generation costs, we should have a review. And that's what the legislation says, now. It's what the situation's been for some time. And of course, if the situation did change dramatically, then of course one should do. And no-one - not a Liberal Democrat, not a Conservative and I hope no-one else - would want to over-subsidise the wind industry.
James Naughtie: Your aim is to have almost all the electricity produced by 2030 to come from renewable sources. Decarbonisation, as it is known. Will that be confirmed in the autumn as the target that remains in place for this government?
Ed Davey: Well, if you look at our carbon plan, which is what we have to do under the Climate Change Act, 2008, looking forward to how we are going to decarbonise the whole of the economy, we see major investment in renewable technology, which is what today's announcement is, but we'll also see new nuclear, we see carbon capture and storage, and if all these technologies can come on, we will be very much on track, yes.
James Naughtie: Yes, but it's a very simple question. Will this target be confirmed, when it's discussed again in the autumn? It's not -
Ed Davey: We don't have a target, at the moment, for decarbonisation -
James Naughtie: No, but will you get a 2030 target?
Ed Davey: Well, yes I'm trying to answer your question. At the moment, we have targets on carbon emission reductions. They come through the carbon plans, and our commitment to reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050. And we want - we are legally required to do that, and we want to meet those targets, and we will meet those targets. What I think people have been discussing is whether there should be a separate new target for decarbonising the power sector, a sort of intermediate target -
James Naughtie: Yes.
Ed Davey: - and there's a debate to be had, about that. And when we published our Energy Bill in May, and all the surrounding documentation, we said we wanted that debate. And that debate's now going to happen.
James Naughtie: Yeah but - let me just cut through this. Anybody who follows these matters knows that your department wants that target of 2030, and the Treasury doesn't, and the question is: who wins?
Ed Davey: Well, as I've just said, there needs to be a debate about that, the arguments for and against, the critical thing, though -
James Naughtie: Yeah, you're for it and the Chancellor's against it. Chancellors usually win, don't they.
Ed Davey: But the critical thing is we need to reduce our carbon emissions. There is cross-government agreement on how we do - we - that we need to do that. Everyone knows that a) that can be good for our economy if we invest -
James Naughtie: So there's cross-government agreement. You think the Chancellor agrees with a date of 2030 for decarbonisation of the electricity industry? Does he?
Ed Davey: Listen, I'm trying to help [?] -
James Naughtie: If there's cross-government - I'm sorry, Mr Davey, if there's cross-government agreement - [they are speaking at the same time.]
Ed Davey: - talking about two different things - [?] Let me make a distinction for you, as I hope it will help you and help your listeners.
James Naughtie: Yes.
Ed Davey: There is agreement that we reduce our carbon emissions substantially to meet our 2050 targets -
James Naughtie: Yes.
Ed Davey: - cross-government agreement about that. What we're arguing about is how we do that. And there's a justified [?] discussion what I have said and what is the case, now, is that we can have a debate about one of the ways we do that, and whether or not there should be an intermediate target in addition to the carbon emission reduction target -
James Naughtie: Yes.
Ed Davey: - specifically for the power sector. And that's a good debate, and we should have that.
James Naughtie: Across government.
Ed Davey: Yes.
James Naughtie: Ed Davey, thank you very much.