Source: BBC Radio 4
URL: N/A
Date: 12/07/2015
Event: Sir Paul Nurse: Sir Tim Hunt "should never have been sacked" by UCL
Credit: BBC Radio 4
People:
Paddy O'Connell: So, at 20 to 10 just gone, to the Sundays with Virginia Ironside, agony aunt, columnist and author - she writes the weekly Dilemmas column for the Independent - Ann McElvoy, Public Policy Editor for The Economist and Radio 3 woman, and the geneticist Sir Paul Nurse, President of the Royal Society, who shared his Nobel Prize with Sir Tim Hunt. Welcome, all. And Sir Paul, Sir Tim's name features in one of the papers this morning.
Paul Nurse: It does, um, Simon Heffer commented: "How to silence Sir Tim's bullies". Now, of course he's my friend, he's a great scientist, he said, I'm afraid, some silly things about women in science - they weren't acceptable, he's apologised completely about that. Um, but it's simply gone into a complete Twitter and media storm, completely out of proportion and it's still running today, as we've heard. He should never have been sacked by University College London. Um, there's been lots of inaccurate reporting, though - he remains a Fellow of the Royal Society. He did step down from a prize committee - that was his choice, because any lack of fairness seen in any individual would obviously undermine its legitimacy. But frankly, I've been really shocked by how much - how low the quality of debate has been, round this area - it's time to leave Tim in peace and to move on to the important issue: how do we get more women into science.
Anne McElvoy: Yeah, I take a slightly different view of Tim Hunt. I can see that he - you know, he ended up in a Twitter spat and I think University College London overreacted quite badly to that. I think, like a lot of people [who] get caught up in these things, he was slightly the author of his own misfortune. You know, when you say, Paul, that he apologised - he gave a sort of slightly mealy-mouthed, just off the pace apology. I think if you've said something daft - and which of us has not, particularly when you're trying to impress people and you make a joke that goes badly - I think you then, you should just say "Look, I really am sorry about this", and I think he should - if he'd come on to the front foot, he might not be in the mess he's in.
Virginia Ironside: I - no, I don't agree. I really feel that someone of his generation, if he can't make that sort of remark and for it to be understood and passed off, I don't understand the situation. We all are charitable to people who say the odd silly thing - I've said the odd silly thing, myself - I don't see why I should apologise for it. And what he said was not that bad, it was silly, it was a silly joke -
Anne McElvoy: [Inaudible] and being quite rude about women scientists, it wasn't just the, you know, one badly-chosen word.
Virginia Ironside: He just made a joke. And it was a feeble and hopeless - hopeless joke made by an old person, forget it.
Paul Nurse: He, he -
Anne McElvoy: Not that hopeless [laughs].
Paul Nurse: He doesn't behave like that - he said something silly, he has apologised - let's just move on. And, you know, he isn't good with the media, so he said, you know, it just wasn't his thing, you know.
Paddy O'Connell: All right, we will move on. It has come up before, and we had a lot of sympathy for him on a previous review, so there's been some difference of opinions here, including from you, who's a friend and shared the Nobel Prize with him. But I think you're saying he should stay out of the Royal Society, of which you're President of [sic].
Paul Nurse: No, no - I'm saying he's a Fellow and he's been - of course he should be there, he's a great scientist. All I'm saying is that he - that when he himself decided to step down from a prize committee, he decided that because any sign of unfairness would make it illegitimate. So I think that was brave and the right thing for him to do.