Source: RTE
URL: http://soundcloud.com/raheem-kassam/audio-duncan-stewart-on-air#t=1%3A29
Date: 07/04/2014
Event: Duncan Stewart on climate and the media: "Is it that everybody wants to dodge climate change?"
Attribution: RTE, Raheem Kassam
People:
Shane Coleman: According to my next guest, the false debate around climate change is misleading, and deniers keep the public in doubt. It's these concerns that have led well-known TV personality and environmentalist Duncan Stewart to announce he's quitting RTE, while condemning the broadcaster for its coverage of global warming. Former presenter of About the House and Eco Eye, Duncan, you're very welcome to the studio this morning.
Duncan Stewart: Yeah, I think that's a little bit harsh, actually, you know. I'm only stepping down from RTE because I have issues about climate change. I mean, climate change -
Shane Coleman: You did criticise our coverage of it, though.
Duncan Stewart: Yes I did, and I'm criticising all of the media, by the way, on this. Because this is - all of the media is being - in my view - irresponsible about climate change.
Shane Coleman: How so?
Duncan Stewart: Because the climate change is a science that has been proven many years ago, by all of the science community. They're - it is unequivocal that climate change is real, it's happening now and, basically, it is caused by all of us humans, in our greenhouse gas emissions, in terms of fossil fuel. Now, that is science that is proven. It's the same as, for example, talking about tobacco smoke. We knew tobacco smoke - the science knew, 50 years ago, that tobacco smoke was damaging health, yet the deniers were allowed to keep - keeping the confusion and doubt going, for years. Thereby, millions of people have died in that time, because of tobacco smoke. You know, and basically -
Shane Coleman: Okay, so when RTE are covering this issue, what, in your view - what traps do they fall into? What's the problem about our covering it?
Duncan Stewart: It's the same as what every talk show is doing. You know, every radio talk show, on every channel. First of all, you - everybody seems to avoid climate change, because it's not popular - it doesn't bring in ratings. It's not good for advertising. And that's a fundamental issue with all media, including press. So, when I'm criticising RTE, I'm criticising it because they're the public state - public broadcaster. And I'm very conscious that we need to inform our public about the facts and about the truth. And the truth is that we are facing a massive - the biggest issue ever faced by human beings is climate change. And it's happening now, and it's going to affect our children, over the next 20 years.
Shane Coleman: The greatest challenge ever? I mean, greater than World War II, and the atomic bomb...
Duncan Stewart: Absolutely. Absolutely. It is going to have devastating effects - and this is what really concerns me, Shane. The media don't seem to get it. The media seem to not read the science. The IPCC report is out there, it's in the media -
Shane Coleman: The IPCC - just explain who that is.
Duncan Stewart: The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report, the 5th Assessment, is out there, for everybody in the media to become informed about. Look, we need to protect our children's future. And we're not acting safe- properly, on this. So, if I - if I make - if I, kind of, get upset about RTE, it's in the context of the wider picture. Because there's elections on, at the moment, Shane -
Shane Coleman: Okay, now, we'll get to the elections in a minute -
Duncan Stewart: No, no - I just want to -
Shane Coleman: No, no, no - hang on, we'll get to the elections in a minute, but -
Duncan Stewart: How much time have I got?
Shane Coleman: We've got plenty of time.
Duncan Stewart: Well, I want plenty of time. How much time have I got?
Shane Coleman: We'll get -
Duncan Stewart: No, tell me how much time I've got.
Shane Coleman: Let me ask the questions, you can answer them.
Duncan Stewart: No, no no. You tell me how much time I've got.
Shane Coleman: We've got a panel - is your -
Duncan Stewart: Listen - do you want me to talk, here?
Shane Coleman: Yes, I do.
Duncan Stewart: Well then, tell me how much time I've got.
Shane Coleman: Well, I'll -
Duncan Stewart: Because I want to know.
Shane Coleman: We don't set -
Duncan Stewart: I've a lot to say here, Shane.
Shane Coleman: We've plenty of time.
Duncan Stewart: I don't want to get bogged down, here, by the way.
Shane Coleman: We are getting bogged down - we're wasting time on this.
Duncan Stewart: Listen, listen, I can walk out of this studio this minute, if you wish. Would you want me to do that?
Shane Coleman: Why would you walk about of the studio? We're having a discussion.
Duncan Stewart: Unless you tell me how much time I've got - I've a lot to say, here. And do I have to go to another radio station and say it? You've asked me to come in here to this studio, last night - a very good researcher asked me. She said I would be able to talk about the issues in the wider context, because I'm very concerned that I get the facts about issues across to the public. So, please tell me how much time I've got.
Shane Coleman: Okay, you've got another seven or eight minutes - we've just lost a -
Duncan Stewart: Okay, well, listen - I don't think I want to stay here. Okay? I don't think I want to stay. If you tell me you've got ten minutes, I'll agree with you. But if only seven minutes, I'm not staying.
Shane Coleman: Let's just talk about the issues, here.
Duncan Stewart: Listen. It's not worth my time. I'm going to go to another station with this. There's plenty of people that want to hear. I've an awful lot to say, here.
Shane Coleman: Yeah, we want to hear you -
Duncan Stewart: Give me ten minutes.
Shane Coleman: Well, let's just talk, it's -
Duncan Stewart: No, no. Give me ten minutes, or I'm not staying in this studio. There are many - listen - anyone listening to this -
Shane Coleman: Okay - we'll give you ten minutes -
Duncan Stewart: Anyone listening to this, please email me - please email me and show your support - duncan@earthhorizon.ie.
Shane Coleman: - you've got ten minutes, start - let's start talking.
Duncan Stewart: Thank you.
Shane Coleman: Your criticism, in terms of RTE and other stations, is what - that we give equal time to people who are naysayers about climate change, is that it?
Duncan Stewart: Look, if we were talking about tobacco smoke, would we do that? If we were talking about the Holocaust, if there was a programme here about the holocaust, would we give equal time, would we give what's called "balance" - what is interpreted by the media as balance - to Holocaust-deniers? Would we do it, Shane? Please to answer that.
Shane Coleman: No, of course we wouldn't.
Duncan Stewart: And then why are we doing it with climate change, that has been proven for years, in terms of the science? Is it that everybody wants to dodge climate change? We want to hide from it? Do we want to, kind of, continue, if you like, to step over the cliff with climate change - is that the issue?
Shane Coleman: Okay, so you think it's a given, and that no airtime should be given to people -
Duncan Stewart: No, I don't "think", Shane - the science says it. It's not about opinion. And it's not about belief. This is fact. Look at those farmers, that they're suffering all the time. I've done programmes, I was out with farmers in the winter, last year. And I saw how they were suffering with the huge problem of feedstock. You know, and the whole problem with farmers, realising that the inclement weather that's out there, the extreme unpredictable weather is affecting farming. Now farming is the backbone of our economy. And every farmer out knows - knows out there that weather has changed. The problem is that weather is going to change much, much worse. And sea level is rising, our oceans are acidif- acidifica- acidifying. And the media seems to not get it.
Shane Coleman: Mm. I can anticipate the texts that'll come in, on this, and people will say "We've had - we've had periods like this before, in the history of this planet -
Duncan Stewart: Yes -
Shane Coleman: - where we've had extreme weather patterns, and how do we know that this isn't just another example of that?"
Duncan Stewart: Look, the science has said all of this. They've told us that we're going to have unpredictable weather, extremes that will go rapidly very high and rapidly down, simply because we're putting the climate out of balance. We have 400 parts per million, in the atmosphere now. There was not more than 180 to 280 parts per million of CO2 emissions in the atmosphere for over 500,000 years. We were never at 400 parts per million within the last 3 million years. We need to wake up. We've done damage to the atmosphere that is irreversible. And we have to realise that climate change is coming down on us very quickly. And we need - and the media need - to take responsibility, all of us. We need to know that we are acting in the interests of our children, Shane.
Shane Coleman: Mm. What are -
Duncan Stewart: We can't be thinking about advertising revenue or keeping our ratings up.
Shane Coleman: Okay, we'll take that on the chin -
Duncan Stewart: This is deceiving our citizens, Shane.
Shane Coleman: Okay, we'll take that one on the chin. But what about the citizens? I mean, in the last general election, the Green Party - the one party who actually had made an issue out of global warming - got completely wiped out, they lost all their seats.
Duncan Stewart: And the media turned their - turned on the Greens. You know, I'm not in any political party, I've never been in a political party, but I felt very badly for the poor Greens. They were - they took the brunt. The Greens never caused the downturn of our economy. All the other political parties did, over the last 20 years. And yet the Greens got the worst - they got hit.
And since the downturn of the economy, it's all the small people have been hit. You know, everywhere we're seeing damage done. The small farmers, for example, have been severely hit. The young people of Ireland have been hit. All of the NGOs, the good people, are out there at local level, doing good work, have not - all of their revenues have been drained and [inaudible].
So, what's happened is: we've protected the rich, and the rich is ripping us off, big time. All of this domicile funding going abroad, in terms of tax havens abroad, and appointments into boards by the public sector, of people onto the boards of state companies, and the appointments of judges - these are all big issues that the public are very concerned about. And they want answers to it, but there's nothing happening at government level. We have a dysfunctional government system. And we need to wake up to it. I was watching a debate last night, on RTE, about the elections in the Midlands-North-West. And I wasn't inspired. I have to say, I was very disappointed. I was looking for some vision, some positive thing that people could buy into, and believe -
Shane Coleman: It is the local elections, though, I mean -
Duncan Stewart: No, no, this was also the European election - no, last night was about the European election.
Shane Coleman: Sorry, okay.
Ivan Minnock: But Duncan, I have to ask you about - you attended the recent Independents Network in Dublin, of councillors -
Duncan Stewart: I did.
Ivan Minnock: - and looking at your Twitter account -
Duncan Stewart: That was a fantastic event -
Ivan Minnock: Okay.
Duncan Stewart: - opened my eyes.
Ivan Minnock: Simple question - are you standing for election?
Duncan Stewart: No, I'm considering. I know I can't, Ivan, do what I can within the television structure. You know, in fairness, you're a commentator. I am. And you know how limited it is. We can't get out there and attack the status quo and the systems. I want to speak out. I'm at a stage in my life, I've a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, I've produced over 400 programmes, produced and presented them.
Ivan Minnock: But the question was: are you standing for election, or not?
Duncan Stewart: I have three or four options, at the moment. Some of those options are to go into the elections, and I'm going to be making a decision within a couple of days -whether I do or I don't - and the others are -
Ivan Minnock: European? European or local?
Duncan Stewart: Well, I couldn't go into the local elections, and you know it. I couldn't go into national politics, I'm not interested -
Shane Coleman: What constituency? Do you reside in the Dublin constituency, or -
Duncan Stewart: I'm looking - I'm looking at the different options on that, Shane and Ivan. Put it this way - I'm looking at Ireland. I'm not - I'm not really seeing this as a constituency. We're all together in this. I want to build consensus in this country. I want to build a vision. I want to make sure that Europe and Ireland engage us. We need Europe.
Ivan Minnock: So if you're running, it will be as an independent.
Duncan Stewart: Oh, of course it would be as an independent. I mean, that's the - I mean, I couldn't work with a political party.
Shane Coleman: Even the Greens?
Duncan Stewart: No, I'm not interested in getting -
Ivan Minnock: You share a lot of their ethos, though, wouldn't you, with the Green Party?
Duncan Stewart: Of course I would - they're interested in environmental issues and they've done a lot of good and they're doing a lot of good...
Shane Coleman: You see, people would be very cynical. If you do end up standing for election, they'd say this row with RTE is just a platform to boost yourself, propel yourself in the campaign.
Duncan Stewart: That might be your opinion.
Shane Coleman: No, I'm putting it - it would be said, obviously. All your political opponents would say that.
Duncan Stewart: I tweeted because I was upset. You know, it undermines everything I do on television, in my Eco Eye programme. You know, I get a very good audience in my Eco Eye, and everybody appreciates the honesty and integrity and the factual information that I present. And I seem to be, kind of -
Ivan Minnock: No, but the bear pit of politics is a different arena.
Duncan Stewart: I know, and it's - this is what worries me, Ivan, is if I go into politics, even if it's European politics, I know my whole future is now going to be very different. I'm going into a very dirty business. I'm not used to politics. You're in politics, you know all about it -
Ivan Minnock: Yeah, I know, but what I'm saying is this - [several people are talking at once] - you can't be too precious, either, in the bear pit of politics.
Duncan Stewart: I understand what I'm facing. I know it's going to be dirty. I know people will try to knock me, and try and undermine me. I do know that. And I know I'm giving up something that, basically - my programmes have been growing, every year. Last year we got - on average, because our programmes get repeated in the autumn - 745,000 viewers per episode...
Shane Coleman: So you've been building up this for a political platform, all along.
Duncan Stewart: Not at all. I've only reacted to a situation now, that I've seen, in these elections, that there is no interest in climate change or there's no vision for the future, and it's all about scrapping over little small things - our political parties are fighting over small issues.
Shane Coleman: When will you make a decision or announcement?
Duncan Stewart: I will be making a decision this week. But I'm not going to announce anything -
Shane Coleman: But it sounds like you've already made a decision.
Duncan Stewart: No, no, because I've a few very good options, that I'm sizing up, at the moment, that are outside of politics. And I think I could achieve -
Shane Coleman: Sounds like you're able to operate the media - [laughing].
Duncan Stewart: Well, believe me, believe me, nothing's going to hold me back when I get to Europe, if I do go there, by the way.
Shane Coleman: But you'll have to get elected, first.
Duncan Stewart: That's a simple matter.
Shane Coleman: Is the Irish electorate -
Ivan Minnock: Sorry?
Duncan Stewart: That's a simple matter.
Shane Coleman: Getting elected is a simple matter?
Duncan Stewart: For me it is, because I have a - I know... I'm not going to put posters up, if I do run, for example.
Shane Coleman: Okay...
Duncan Stewart: I'm not going to do the conventional thing.
Ivan Minnock: Did you think you'd walk into Parliament?
Duncan Stewart: No. But I know the people of Ireland are waiting for somebody to give them -
Shane Coleman: And that person is you.
Duncan Stewart: Well, I don't know. But I do know I'm going to reach out, there. And I do feel that around the country -
Shane Coleman: But [inaudible] the phrase "I'm going to walk in" - I don't understand that. What do you mean by that?
Duncan Stewart: No, I'm saying that - well, if I say that, I'm saying that when I look at what's being presented to the people of Ireland - no vision, no future, our young people disenfranchised - probably not even going to bother to vote - this is a serious issue, I'm watching our young people being drained out of our country. Over the last five, six years, a quarter of a million of our young people have left Ireland. That's a massive hemorrhage of young people, especially in rural Ireland.
Shane Coleman: Mm. That's a different issue from global warming, though, isn't it?
Duncan Stewart: It's a - look, global warm- climate change is one. If you look at our energy, do you know how much energy we import, every year, in oil, gas and coal. Do you know? You're in the media - do you know?
Shane Coleman: I know it's 80%, or something like that.
Duncan Stewart: It's 90%. How much, would you think?
Shane Coleman: Well, I'd put it like this. I got the figure - I was chairing a wind energy conference, the other week, the figure was given. What is the figure? Remind me.
Duncan Stewart: Six and a half billion.
Shane Coleman: Right.
Duncan Stewart: Now, over the last ten years, do you know how much money got drained out of our economy, over the last ten years? In oil, gas and coal imports. Six - 55 billion. Do you know how much we're going to get out of our country, over the next ten years, the way we're going? It'll be in the order of 70 to 90 billion. That's -
Shane Coleman: I know, but we don't have the capacity, in alternative renewables, at the moment.
Duncan Stewart: Where do you say that? How do you know that?
Shane Coleman: Well sure, they don't exist - if you look at the megawatts, they don't.
Duncan Stewart: Look at our ocean.
Shane Coleman: The total megawatts are less than 3,000.
Duncan Stewart: Listen, if you're in Germany or in Sweden, and you're looking at the resources of energy we've got here, we are the envy of Europe.
Shane Coleman: But there aren't enough turbines.
Duncan Stewart: We have a vast ocean, out there. We could be powering all of Europe. Scotland is -
Shane Coleman: Tidal technology hasn't been [inaudible] much, yet.
Duncan Stewart: - Scotland is engaging in this. Scotland is doing it, and we're falling behind.
Shane Coleman: No, what I'm interested in is - are you using this programme -
Duncan Stewart: - So - no, no, no, no. You said - you said that we don't have the renewable energy. Now, that is wrong. And that is not correct.
Shane Coleman: Listen, I'm pro-renewables [inaudible, several people are talking at once] -
Duncan Stewart: Then [inaudible] - you're knocking renewables.
Shane Coleman: No, no, I'm not knocking renewables, you misunderstand. My question to you, though, is: all this stuff - your performance here this morning and your performance in attacking RTE, I have to put it to you, sounds like a most cynical, opportunistic attempt to just ride a storm of controversy to get elected to the European Parliament.
Duncan Stewart: I'm not attacking RTE -
Shane Coleman: Of course you're attacking RTE - you criticised our programme and lack of balance.
Duncan Stewart: In a small little tweet - a tweet.
Shane Coleman: You said you wouldn't work for them any more.
Duncan Stewart: No, no, I didn't say that. I would hope my TV production company, my Eco Eye, will continue without me. I know I'm going to have to step down - I'm stepping down, do you understand the difference between stepping down -
Shane Coleman: [inaudible] you're standing for election.
Duncan Stewart: I'm stepping down because I need to put my head above the parapet. Because I don't see anyone putting their head above the parapet and telling the truth. And I want to tell the truth.
Shane Coleman: A couple of last questions, because you have been on for 16 minutes -
Duncan Stewart: Good.
Shane Coleman: - and we have given you a good whack of time. Will you come back on Newstalk, in the next couple of days, and tell us if you're going to be a candidate, or where will you announce your candidature?
Duncan Stewart: I haven't even got to that, Shane, but put it this way - I would like to build up a relationship with Newstalk, of course, I've respect for you, here. I wouldn't be here, otherwise. And, and I'm very keen to kind of stand back and say: first of all, what do I do? Because I have other options that are really important, that will do much less damage to me, because I won't be in that dirty -
Shane Coleman: Less brief [?]
Duncan Stewart: - circle, and I have to make this -
Shane Coleman: Last question, last question, because we are out of time. Are Irish voters ready to elect a candidate whose platform, whose main platform is global warming? Do you think.
Duncan Stewart: My platform is: local communities. You haven't asked me that.
Shane Coleman: Okay we -
Duncan Stewart: My platform. What I do, where I'm doing, what I'm doing now, whether I get elected or not, I'm doing it anyway. I've set up a movement, a grass-roots movement in local energy and local food. I want to see, within the next three years, every village in Ireland having its own small cooperative for food and energy. Because less than 1% of the energy is produced in our villages and in our towns -
Shane Coleman: All right -
Duncan Stewart: - and less than 2% of food. So, I am going - I'm doing that anyway, and that's my - what I'm going to be bringing to Europe. Because I want to see Europe supporting small communities in every village, in every part of Europe.
Shane Coleman: Okay. Duncan Stewart, architect and environmentalist, TV presenter and - possibly - candidate, or maybe probably candidate for the European elections, thanks indeed for joining us.