20210427_GM
Source: ITV, Good Morning Britain
URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFSYFG7ygCw
Date: 27/04/2021
Event: "So is it time that we give up our pets in order to save our planet?"
Credit: ITV, Good Morning Britain
People:
Julia Bradbury: Journalist and TV presenter
Ciara Durkan: TV presenter
Donnachadh McCarthy: Environmental campaigner
Adil Ray: TV presenter
Susanna Reid: TV presenter
Adil Ray: Now, over the past year, pet sales have soared - it's thought the UK dog population alone has gone up by at least 10 percent during lockdown, now totalling more than 11 million - wow.
Susanna Reid: And while most people have used the extra time at home to bond with their new pets, many environmentalists are calling for people to stop having pets altogether, because that would save the planet. Going to debate that in just a moment - Ciara Durkan has the details.
Ciara Durkan: We're a nation of pet lovers - more than half of us have one - but did you know our furry friends are contributing to climate change? Some researchers have found the eco pawprint of a dog is twice that of a typical SUV driven for 6,000 miles a year. The food for one pet pooch emits nearly twice as much carbon the average UK household uses in a year for electricity, and according to research by the Victoria University in Wellington, a cat's eco footprint is roughly the same as a small car. Cat litter is also full of mineral-based products which are harmful to the environment, and the growing demand for plastic toys also contributes to environmental damage.
But it's not just our pets - a single cow produces up to 120 kilograms of methane per year and there's around one and a half billion cattle worldwide, and it's this methane that's more damaging to our climate than the carbon dioxide produced by cars.
So is it time that we give up our pets in order to save our planet?
Adil Ray: Joining us now is environmental artist [sic] Donnachadh McCarthy, along with TV presenter and environmentalist Julia Bradbury.
Um, I'll come to you first, Donna, um about this - I mean Donnachadh, sorry - you, you can't seriously be saying that pets are comparable with SUVs? Is that absolutely true? And we should be not replacing our pets when they - when they pass away?
Donnachadh McCarthy: Well, there was a study done in the journal Biosciences last year - in 2019 - that stated the carbon emissions from the average dog is equivalent to the household - two households' - electricity for a year, so we do have an issue here of carbon emissions associated with our pets. And so, like everything else - you know, cars are convenient, flights are convenient, uh cats and pets are conve- are, are nice to have, but we have to think of the consequences behind them.
Susanna Reid: Yeah, but what what are the consequences of what you're saying? I mean, people love their pets like members of their family. You know, we're a drain on resources as well, so you know this has implications for - for everyone, doesn't it?
Donnachadh McCarthy: Sure, um. But it's about love isn't it? Behind that loving cat or dog that we have, there's a - there's a whole ocean of cruelty, whether it's destruction of rainforest for the meat, the destruction of the seas for the fish to feed our cats, and the real problem is the numbers.
Susanna Reid: Yeah but Donnachadh, my point is you could be talking about human beings as well. I mean it's - it's one thing to give up your car but you're not going to give up a loved member of your family which, frankly, is what people consider cats and dogs.
Donnachadh McCarthy: Well, if we love our members of our family, if we love our kids, do you not accept we have to look after the climate crisis?
Susanna Reid: Well no actually, firstly I want to look after my kids and my pets. That's what I -
Donnachadh McCarthy: That's quite shocking, that's quite shocking - do you understand the level of crisis that the carbon emissions are, currently in the planet [sic]? We all have to -
Susanna Reid: You think I shouldn't be looking after my children and my pets?
Donnachadh McCarthy: I'm saying that to look after and love your children, you have to look after your carbon emissions, because we are in an emergency - even the government accepts we're in an emergency. The scientists have said we've passed the safe tipping point - this may mean by the end of - middle of this century and when our kids are just around 30 years old they may be facing a planet that's facing starvation, floods and climate destruction. We are in an emergency - we must wake up to the seriousness of it.
Adil Ray: But it shouldn't have to be one or the other, and what Susanna is saying - you wouldn't say: well okay, I care so much about the climate, uh, I'm not going to - no longer care about my children or have children or look after my children. You can do both things and and if we're going to say that pets are like our family members - and they are family members, you know - can we - then why do we have to choose? Why can't you have pets and just also do what you can?
Susanna Reid: We can give up a car, we can give up flights but we can't give up something that we consider as close to us as a - as a child, a pet?
Donnachadh McCarthy: Well, well I'm sorry, you keep equating a pet dog or pet animal with a human being - and that's actually quite anthropocentric. We have to accept that our, our selfishness in keeping these animals and pets cooped up, locked up - it involves a massive amount of cruelty. Take for example a parrot - normally it is a social animal, lives with 30 to 40 other parrots but when the human being has caged it up in the cage it receives maybe 15 minutes of love a day. So the fact is, in many, many millions of cats are cooped up -
Susanna Reid: So look after them better, then. I mean, I can understand that - but actually let's talk to Julia Bradbury. Julia, um, you unfortunately have just lost a dog, a pet, a beloved pet. I mean, people will - people do feel this, this is a different bond, isn't it, than you have with your car or with your annual holiday - and I know you're an environmentalist, you care very much about the planet, but not at the expense of your pets?
Julia Bradbury: I do, I do - first of all, I'm grateful that Donnachadh has raised uh an important issue - it's something I think that we perhaps haven't thought about a lot, which is what impact are our, our pets, our domestic pets having on the planet. And there are things that we can do to mitigate that - so for example a big problem with domestic cats is they kill birds, and this is something that owners are concerned about as well, because the birds get brought into the house and I'm sure cat owners at home will have experienced this.
There are things that you can do to try and prevent that and to try and reduce those numbers - so you can keep them inside at certain hours, like before sunset and after sunrise, put on a bright, a brightly-coloured collar on a cat can help the birds escape, because they react to colours, and you can neuter your cats as well. So there are things that we can do, we can look for plastic-free packaging when it comes to feeding our cats, there are things that we can do to mitigate the impact of our pets.
I think something that Donnachadh is missing here, when he's talking about the bond that we have with cats and with dogs and our pets - they aren't just about being, being an extension to us, it's not just an anthropomorphic - we want to look after something - sometimes they have a very real, important value in our lives that that helps our mental health.
And also what do we do about guide dogs - do we just get rid of all guide dogs who are helping people who are visually impaired? What do we do about special medical assistance dogs? I have a friend who has a neurological condition and accidentally she found out that her dog can work out - five minutes before she has a blackout, he knows when that is coming and he calls the alarm, she can let her friends and family know and then the dog protects her - that's Barna and Emily. It was an accident that they discovered this, it has been life-changing for her -
Susanna Reid: Absolutely, animals have special powers. Now Donnachadh, as Julia was saying that you were shaking your head, so do you have special exemptions for those pets that have a role?
Donnachadh McCarthy: Absolutely, I'm not saying people go out tomorrow and kill all of their pets - what I'm saying is that ideally, if you don't need your cat or your dog for mental health reasons or for blind people I should seriously consider not replacing your pet when it passes away.
Susanna Reid: Okay, but Julia makes that point about those specific animals. I think every - everybody who has a pet would say they provide some kind of benefit to them, you know, whether that's a mental health benefit, whether that's an exercise benefit - you know, all pets have that role.
Donnachadh McCarthy: Well, people argue the same that their cars are are really useful and flying to - around the world is really useful. What we need to do is to think: in an emergency we have to look at essential needs and essential requirements, and for people with mental health -
Susanna Reid: Donnachadh, can I assume that you have no pets?
Donnachadh McCarthy: I don't have any pets but I have had a pet in the past, and as regards -
Susanna Reid: And what was your bond like with that pet?
Donnachadh McCarthy: My partner had a pet for three years and I noticed that when my partner was out, the dog slept all day. We took him for a walk in the morning, took him out in the evening. When we visited his parents in the countryside the dog absolutely abandoned us and was mad with energy, running around with other dogs all day long, and what I realized that day was that millions of dogs are cooped up in urban homes and pining away in horrendous lifestyles. They are pack animals and so what I'm saying is that we need to look at, at a proper responsible way to dealing with, with pets and I would argue that most people don't need a pet.
Susanna Reid: Zozia on Twitter has said "I'd literally give up humans before my pets". I mean, I wonder, Donnachadh if that's slightly what you're suggesting -
Adil Ray: I - "give up", I wonder what she means by "give up", but... [laughs]
Susanna Reid: Donnachadh, what happened? Did you decide to let the dog go to a different home or did the did the dog leave you?
Donnachadh McCarthy: No, no, we separated, my partner took the dog with him - I resolved that day never to replace it. I'm just going back to the pleasure of animals during lockdown I had - I live in Central London, I had a nesting pair of dunnocks in my garden with four nestlings. It actually provided a huge amount of comfort to me during lockdown, and then one day, as I was reading my book, I heard a screech and the cat was eating the four nestlings and I lost them - 23 million birds are lost to cats every year in the United Kingdom. If you love wildlife, you shouldn't have this massive number of dogs and cats in British homes.
Susanna Reid: I just wonder, Donnachadh, whether you're making an argument for better pet ownership, rather than an argument that we should not have pets for the sake of the environment, because I think those are two different arguments.
Donnachadh McCarthy: I think you need to do both -
Julia Bradbury: I had a very similar incident in my garden, recently.
Donnachadh McCarthy: - I think you need to be responsible in how you look after your pet, but you need to actually consider not replacing the pet when it passes away. Julia made some good points about how you can actually improve your current pet ownership - you can actually now get pet food for cats that's based on insects that doesn't involve dead fish or dead meat, you can also get more environmentally friendly cat litter and things like that and make sure your dog, during nesting season, isn't allowed to run around, because they're destroying our ground-nesting birds at nesting season, both on the coasts or national parks.
Susanna Reid: Julia?
Julia Bradbury: I echo absolutely what Donnachadh says there. I think the issue that we're going to have is we are not, are we, ever going to have a sort of a mass giving up of our pets where we go: actually, yes, none of us are ever going to buy any pets again, so I don't think it's a realistic thing to expect human beings to do, because it goes against our loving feelings towards our pets and I think that's the issue. Yes, we can be more responsible pet owners but it's - I just can't see a workable, enforceable way of us all handing in our cats and our dogs and going: that's it, we're over, our relationship's over with these with these creatures.
And I will just say again at the end about my friend who has this neurological condition - she didn't know, the family didn't know that the dog would have this positive impact on her life and their lives, and it changed their lives and sometimes you don't know how important the mental health or the medical assistance, or indeed dogs that are that are used for sniffing out crime as well, and and illnesses, that we know of, so I think this is a very complex area and we can't just say: let's get rid of all the pets.
Adil Ray: Okay, Julia Bradbury, thank you very much. Donnachadh, it's my advice to you, Donnachadh, honestly, I really think you should go to your nearest rescue dog home and get yourself a dog. I really think you should and and take the dog out for walks - you'll be doing a good thing because that rescue dog is in a home. You can't let them out in the wild, now so -
Susanna Reid: Could you make an exemption for a rescue, on environmental grounds?
Donnachadh McCarthy: All I'm saying is if people are replacing their pet, obviously going to a rescue home is the way to go. However, I'll respond to Anil [sic], I mean that would mean my carbon emissions from my house doubles for electricity by just doing that one act. Do you not care about the climate emergency? Do you not care about the millions of people in Africa who are at the moment having their homes flooded? Do you not care -
Adil Ray: Look, as we've, as we've already said - we're running out of time - it's possible to care about the climate and care about dogs. I think you can care about more than one thing. [Donnachadh McCarthy is still speaking.] Well, go on Donnachadh, you can have the final word, go on.
Donnachadh McCarthy: I'm just asking: how do I eliminate the carbon emissions of the dog? I can actually - I've got photo[voltaic] panels on my house -
Susanna Reid: The dog already exists but it's just living in the rescue home at the moment. Anyway, Donnachadh thank you very much indeed, and Julia, thanks very much indeed. You can imagine what the viewers' response is - it's overwhelmingly "no".