Cross-examination:Marzen questioning Weinhardt
Marzen: So how are you doing, Mark?
Weinhardt: OK. I mean, I am in the final round ofNationals, and stuff.
Marzen: Yes, I realize that. OK.
Marzen: Plank one authorizes security clearances, correct?
Weinhardt: Right.
Marzen: For all the people on the board?
Weinhardt: Yeh, well, I mean these won't legitimate security clearances for everything, for say, Russian members on the board for United States information.
Marzen: Wait. At the very minimum, though, we're going to show the technology for PALs and vulnerability, correct?
Weinhardt: Oh, yes. For the assistance in the plan security clearances will be granted.
Marzen: OK. So, Russia and China will at least have access to that at a minimum, correct?
Weinhardt: And vice versa.
Marzen: OK. And vice versa? OK, but Russian cooperation is contingent upon accepting the invitation to the plan, right?
Weinhardt: Right, they don't have to cooperate with the plan. The U.S. continues unilaterally in the absence of their participation.
Marzen: OK. Now what if the Russians say that their C3 and stuff is not good enough, and let's just use the U.S. one. Is there still going to be information sharing?
Weinhardt: Well, we wouldn't give them the same technical assistance or the physical safeguards, but they would have access to the information, so if they could improve their C3 via that-
Marzen: OK. Now, are you going to give the prolif[eration] safeguards and stuff to any third world country that developsnukes, including Marxist ones?
Weinhardt: Anyone that demonstrates the capability to thenuclear weapons commission.
Marzen: You mean they don't even have to develop the nukes? Just have the capability to do it?
Weinhardt: The capability to use nuclear weapons, not the capability to build a bomb.
Marzen: OK. Fine. Now, as far as the careduction goes, what specific mechanisms are you going to use in the plan?
Weinhardt: cs reduction-you mean hardening?
Marzen: Right!
Weinhardt: The same sorts of means in the plan, such as dispersal, concealment, stuff like that.
Marzen: Stuff we use now in the U.S.?
Weinhardt: But also the same sorts of things we use in the U.S., yes, trying to make it invulnerable to things like electromagnetic
Marzen: OK. Who decides what exact safeguards are used? You specify in the [plank] two A point that the minimum is PALs, right?
Weinhardt: Right.
Marzen: Who specifies what is used?
Weinhardt: Well, the LDCs, or that is, the recipient states don't have to take anything. They're guaranteed last choice, so they can
Marzen: Do they get to decide what they can get, in other words?
Weinhardt: Right. This is also screened by the commission.
Marzen: OK. Now, as far as the third world countries go, what do third world countries usually go for? Do they go to cheap. inexpensive things, or do they show a propensity to accept big, glamorous steel plants and things? I mean, historically?
Weinhardt: Oh, I'm not sure. There is some evidence of both effects. It depends on what sort of industrialization, or things like that. you are looking at,
Marzen: Nice wishy washy answer. OK.
Marzen: Let's talk about the vulnerability
Weinhardt: Well, we can't predict in the future what kind of prolif safeguards they're going to take, so, you know-
Marzen: OK. I'm sure that's-
Weinhardt: No good analogy.
Marzen: OK. As far as force vulnerability goes, how many third world countries have ICBMs [Intercon· tinental Ballistic Missiles]?
Weinhardt: Right now?
Marzen: Yeh, not many, right?
Weinhardt: Well, unless you consider China a third world country. no.
Marzen: In fact, it's zero, right?
Weinhardt: Ah, yeh.
l\Iarzen: OK. Now, don't planes take a long time to come over and deliver their bombs'
\reinhardt: Relative to ICBMs.
Marzen: In oth~r words, it's not a prompt counterforce at· tac'.. if they came over, correct?
Weinhardt: Not the thirty minutes sort of counter force attack that the super powers are-
Marzen: OK. So the- for these third world countries, there would be the time to detect it, right, and throw up their ant1-a1r defense systems, correct?
\\'einhardt: That's conceivable.
Marzen: OK. Now, when Epstein talks about vulnerability- vulnerability to whom? Anyone?
Weinhardt: Vulnerability of preemption? Oh. you mean, who will be doing the attacking?
Marzen: Right.
Weinhardt: Any other competing nuclear state.
Marzen: Any? OK. Fine. Plan, please. Merci beaucoups.