On the map, the Spitfire entered the hexside of the Fw190 from the Front Arc, but the final deflection from the Spitfire to the Fw190 is 30° (as the Fw190 is VC and he Spitfire is STC).
So which one of the modifiers should be used ?
Entered stack, or range "0" from rear 3 arcs = -05
OR
Entered stack or range "0" from front 3 arcs = +comb. spd.
I would use rear, since it entered last, is shooting and deflection is 30 minus.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2031) 19/08/2012
What should the collision modifier be for an uncontrolled (GLOC passed out Veteran Ace pilot) A/C be?
An unconscious pilot provides no modifiers pro or con to a collision check.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2164) 29/09/2012
Two Hurricanes are firing a head-on shot at a Bf 109, both at 150 degree deflection, one from the port side and the other from starboard. Now that they all are about to collide, is there a chance that the Hurricanes both dodge the same way (i.e. collide with each other and leave the Bf 109 unscathed)?
You should be clear that in the case of head ons, the collision check is caused by subsequent movement of the aircraft entering into the danger zone created by the head on. This will drive who checks collision against who.
As they Hurricanes are not firing at each other - there is no danger zone between them. The movement of one cannot cause a collision check with the movement of other later.
If both Hurricanes move before the 109 and enter its danger zone, then each would check for collision in turn with the 109.
If the 109 is moving first, and enters the danger zones of both Hurris at the same time, randomly determine which it checks against first. Even if it collides with one, it could also still collide with both.
If one hurricane moves first it checks, if the 109 moves next, it only checks against the unmoved hurricane.
Again - it's tied to order of movement and the danger zone space. It's possible the 109 could maneuver to avoid one DZ space and not the other.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2165) 29/09/2012
After having had a head-on shot during movement, doing a HTR, a Fw190 moves on the SSW hexside of a hex that is in the target B-17's Danger Zone, and then fall in the right hex (which is not part of the B-17 Danger Zone) doing its 30R facing.
a) Is the hexside part of the B-17 Danger Zone ?
b) If yes, does the Fw190 have to make a collision check because he stepped on the hexside just before facing 30R and falling on the right hex ?
The critical question is are you within a range of one hex of the target?
The rules state that for range considerations a hexside is part of both hexes and that range is determined by measuring to the closest hex.
So, yes, you are at range one and are subject to a collision check.
Greg Boeser
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/3034) 12/06/2016
I would say it did enter the hexside, just before it feel off to the side.
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/3038) 24/06/2016
That would be the legal and correct interpretation.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/3041) 25/06/2016
The rule says if you "enter" the DZ do a check.
It does not say if at the end of an FP you do a check if in a DZ.
Semantics matter.
By stepping on the hexside, you have entered the zone. Even if you end the FP out of the zone.
You should have broke off earlier - air combat is dangerous.
:-)
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/3044) 23/06/2016
Can somebody point me to the section of the rules that explains which final deflection is used for a collision within the DZ
All I can find is that you use the deflection that was in place when firing, but surely it should be at the moment of impact
Secondly, what is the final deflection on impact? The Fw dropped into a hex from a hexside at the moment of impact, but ref central decided that the hexside, although only briefly entered, caused a DZ check. So did he collide at 150 deg (which was the deflection before he turned and fell into the hex that took him out of the DZ), or 120 deg (which was the final angle after the turn, but by then he was in a hex and out of the DZ)
The collision is resolved the instant the A/C enters the DZ and NOT at the end of the turn. This should clarify things, since any remaining FPs may not be flyable due to collision damage.
See Rule 10.4.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/3050) 03/07/2016
Without a diagram handy it sounds like 150 would be correct, taking a snap shot of relative facings adjusted for pitch, the instant the collision check is invoked.
In other words use the deflection that would apply if a shot were happening with the respective A/C pitches and facing differences at the instant the check is invoked. The A/C moving into the DZ would be treated as the shooter for this evaluation.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/3053) 04/07/2016
Two Bf 110 have range 0 shots at a Beaufort, that they destroy because exceeding his total hit capacity.
Very dramatic game ending - however, not to rain on the parade, it seems you did the collision check procedure a hair wrong.
Situation - all three A/C are stacked in 2035.
Collision checks are invoked for the following reasons
Bf 110 #1 is unsafely stacked with shot down Beaufort
Bf 110 #1 is making a range 0 attack.
Bf 110 #2 is unsafely stacked with shot down Beaufort
Bf 110 #2 is making a range 0 attack.
Though Bf 110 #1 and #2 are not in formation, their facings are only 60 apart, so they are NOT unsafely stacked with each other.
Though each Bf 110 has multiple collision triggers, one check each satisfies all their triggers simultaneously.
So Two checks are required as per your analysis. I believe you declared a check for over stacking between Beau. and 110s which was valid in a way, and then for unsafe stacking between the two Bf 110s which was an invalid reason. The correct reasons should have been (per Chapters 3, 8 and 10):
One check for Bf 110-1 / possible collision between it and shot down Beaufort or 110 #2.
One check for Bf 110-2 / possible collision between it and shot down beaufort or 110 #1
Per your rolls, the first 110 (I forget which), avoided a collision. The second had a collision which you placed automatically against the other 110. That is the error. It should have only been a 50/50 chance against the other 110 and 50/50 against the destroyed Beau.
So - in theory the second 110 had a chance to NOT be the victim in the second collision.
The value of the dramatic game ending and the fun story factor for the players is such that I am compelled to pass this info to you in private. If the players had a good time, no need to bring this up and spoil the fun. On the other hand, if this is a campaign, the second 110 should get that 50/50 roll.
Anyway! Great job, thanks for running the game.
Cheers,
Pluto
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Fight_99/conversations/messages/2320) 04/08/2015
Deflection shot angle modifiers do not apply to collision crit area damage rolls.
JD
(https://fw-fight-13.groups.io/g/main/message/3003) 15/01/2019