Rule 8.4 from 3rd edition playtest version 3.2
Apparently there have been two ways of interpreting the rules, so I want to make sure I understand it correctly.
Once the disengagement needs to be earned, and the enemy doesn't automatically allow it, Case 2 kicks in. One of the bullet points has the text "further away, in range, from the start position of the nearest enemy.".
This on my opinion is pretty clear. It just needs to head away from the nearest enemy, it doesn't have to increase its range to it (hence the reference to the _start_ position). That way a faster A/C pursuing it doesn't automatically negate the break-off – it also needs to either a) fire at the breaking-off A/C or b) get/be inside the pursuit range.
That is correct. So long as the aircraft breaking off ends each turn further away from the starting location of the nearest enemy aircraft it continues to earn its break-off. The only way to stop it is to get into Pursuit Range or nullify it by firing at the aircraft.
Rob R.
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2182) 06/10/2012
Apparently, I am interpreting the 3rd Edition Break-off rule incorrectly.
For an "Earned Break–Off"
"2. Declared after the 5th turn of combat play, and:
• A/C ends each of the next 5 turns further away, in range, from the start position of the nearest enemy.
• ...
• No nullifying pursuit is declared (see below)."
and
"Pursuit Range = (N - A) times pursuer's advantage in max attainable speed if ... . N = 10 if fleer is of lesser agility class, or N = 5 if fleer is same or higher agility. A = Fleeing A/C's end speed advantage over pursuer (A = 0 if no, or negative advantage)."
Together, this means a Hurr (Max Attain 6.0) with the nearest 109 (Max Attain 7.0) behind its 3:00-9:00L will be able to Break-off if the INITIAL range at Break-off declaration is > 11 hexes (6 for 109's max FP range + 5 turns of reducing range by 1 hex per turn).
The Pursuit Range of (5 -0) = 5 is irrelevant since it is less than the 109s gun range.
Is this the intent of the new Break-off rules (slightly modified from WD) ??
I think fundamentally you have it all correct.
The earned break off occurs if the fleer flies away from the nearest enemy for five turns in a row without having his escape nullified. This means that his end position is further away from the enemy's start position for each of the five turns of the attempt and no nullifying pursuit occurs during those five turns.
He does not have to have an increasing distance for an earned break off. He just has to avoid a nullifying pursuit or getting shot at. The pursuing enemy may have moved first or moved later, it doesn't matter. A faster enemy might be closing on him, reducing the distance, but if the enemy cannot achieve a nullifying pursuit position, the break off still counts.
In your example, the nullifying pursuit range is still important as you can reach the range, but possibly not have a shot due to not having a valid field of fire on the enemy.
The nullifying pursuit range, allows the chase to continue.
In the case of different 109 with longer ranged nose cannon, you might be able to take a shot before qualifying for an escape attempt nullification due to range. The shot will do the trick too.
The intention of the rule is to force a player declaring a break off, to actually fly in a direction "away" from his foes.
Five turns is a time limit based on the idea that the pursuer, if he could not get a shot, or perceive sufficient closure over an extended length of time (20 seconds in this case) to mitigate the risk, would "let" the fleer go as it becomes too dangerous to continue the chase (because of the possibility of being bounced). This follows the basic tenant that scenarios are not occurring within a set piece isolated vacuum but always within the context of a larger air battle, with unknown enemies possibly able to join in at any time.
J.D.
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2184) 09/10/2012
Bill wrote: Together, this means a Hurr (Max Attain 6.0) with the nearest 109 (Max Attain 7.0) behind its 3:00-9:00L will be able to Break-off if the INITIAL range at Break-off declaration is > 11 hexes (6 for 109's max FP range + 5 turns of reducing range by 1 hex per turn).
=======
Assuming level flight used, and no other changes. Yes, you the ref could grant the disengagement to be successful early as the pursuer can achieve neither a shot or a nullifying pursuit range within the next five turns. so playing it out would be a waste of the player's time.
However, Should the hurricane not dive, and the 109 dive slightly and accelerate to be a hair faster, I could see him maybe sneaking in to range within in the time limit. On the other hand, if at the start the range is...say... 15 hexes, then just grant it, no chance for the pursuer to stop it.
J.D.
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2185) 09/10/2012
Is just putting the fleer within valid gun attack parameters sufficient to reset the Break-off attempt (ala ASp and OtR) ??
Or, is an actual Gun Attack required to reset the Break-off attempt ??
Nope - you must put tracers on him, through him or across his bow! An actual attack must be made.
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2189) 10/10/2012
Is the Pursuit Range value Rounded Up or Down ?
Example, Bf110 with 0.5 speed advantage over a Hurri = (N-A) x 0.5 = (5-0) x 0.5 = 2.5
Round up half ranges
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_Referee_Central/conversations/messages/2193) 11/10/2012
Can an A/C successfully Break-Off even if in range from long range naval AAA ?
Being in range of AAA does not prevent breaking off, as it is neither enemy a/c nor air-to-air attack.
When an A/c Breaks Off, it is removed from play.
If it helps, consider the AAA gunners to have stop firing to preserve
their AAA ammo for the next air attack.
Wild Bill
BoB GM
Naval AAA ammo is not tracked in the game. Therefore there is nothing limiting a gamer from firing at airplanes until out of range. In reality - as those familiar with naval history will tell you, conserving AAA ammo was a very real concern, especially for ships that didn't have ready access to replenishment and might be at sea for some time. Once it is clear an aircraft has broken off its attack and is flying away, odds are it will be ignored by such defending ships, unless it is an important long range search aircraft or other type they deem must be destroyed. In lieu of tracking naval ammo, we let airplanes break off from play. In some scenarios they have to fly off the map, in others, where large maps are in use, the ref can choose to allow disengagements however he pleases.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_BoB_One/conversations/messages/4740) 07/11/2015
I understood this was for Naval based heavy AAA.
Is it the same ruling for land based AAA ?
And for smaller caliber AAA ?
In a scenario where there are only Ground Attack planes on a ground attack mission with ground targets only, a situation could happen where the Ground Attack planes could declare a break off immediately after having dropped their ordnance, as they would satisfy the earned break off rules as written (they are moving away from the nearest enemy A/C -- there are none -- since 5 GT), and escape any further AAA fire from the land troops. It would look unrealistic to me.
I think the 3rd edition Break-Off rules should deal more precisely with air to ground and air to ships cases so that they are covered.
Well - remember that the break off rule in chapter 8 is technically a "break off from air combat rule". It doesn't cover AAA and air to ground specific situations in which no air combat is occurring. In most cases, in an air to ground scenario, play doesn't end until you exit the map, or after a certain number of game turns, or as specified in the scenarios, so - there is no breaking off from play allowed in that sense. So in most air to ground scenarios AAA can hound you until you exit the map or the scenario ends. Since almost every air-to-ground and air-naval scenario uses fixed maps or some other map limit, breaking off from AAA is done by exiting the play area which generally reflects my design philosophy that once airplanes were no longer a threat, AAA would cease fire.
Yes naval vessels and land AAA in many situations should have ammo conservation concerns, but the rules don't go there. Exiting the play area is the equivalent I use to reflect them ceasing fire even though planes might still be in range of heavy AAA for quite a distance.
In wild Bill's game with the giant open ended play area and multiple maps, additional rulings and ref calls must be made to adjust for this. Bill elected to use the "air combat" break off rule as is and since air combat in included in play in this fight he allowed it and also ruled that AAA would ignore the plane as well. I think that was a fair call in this game and this situation. My saying that - should NEVER be inferred that such a ruling should then be extrapolated across any and all FW scenarios. Each scenario is unique.
A possible solution to the situation you allude to, with regards to instant break offs, is that you still make the A/C have to earn the break off for five game turns by flying away from the nearest AAA threat to leave play, just as you would in an air combat situation.
Just my suggestion.
JD
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FW_BoB_One/conversations/messages/4753) 08/11/2015